Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

Andrew B

New member
6
0
NZ
We actually use West Sytem 105/205 with a blend of high density and colloidial silica fillers to create a mix with both high compressive and tensile strength. Too little gap and you'll never be able to be sure you got glue in there. Too much and the glue won't really do the job at all. So that mix proved to be the most effective. Variations still exist and I'd suggest simply approaching it again at the known standard is the best course of action. The track goes on with methakrylate adhesive. So best to source a local MMA for that, or we can ship you a party-favor sized tube with an adorable little gun that pumps it out.

On the gudgeon plates: G-flex. Touch grind both surfaces and make sure they're CLEAN
Side note: I went into the shop this weekend to get my new UFO ready for the Rally (SO AMPED) and finally caught one on camera hovering and singing to the other UFOs! I KNEW they'd been doing this but until yesterday never had any proof. HAH!


See yall in Savannah


DRC

Cheers Dave, really appreciate it. I ordinarily use West 105/205 also but concerned that this doesn't flex enough. We've abandoned plans to use the Sikaflex and will either run with a MMA or G/Flex for the job.

Careful with the hovering UFO- might get shot down the way things are at the moment..... ;)
 
Last edited:

Dave Clark

Anarchist
929
914
Rhode Island
When this happened to me after a crash I had no glue available.
I used a stainless washer and M10 nut. Works good enough for me not to bother with glueing.
Filed the walls parallell with a flat file until the nut had a good fit. Also filed the hole in the nut to a slot to get more adjustment. Not as much adjustment as originally but hasn't been limiting so far.
View attachment 578562 View attachment 578563
Hold on Johan. If you cannot change the angle of attack on the boat it will not work. At all. How do you achieve the 1cm of fore aft range on the pintle's intersection with the rudder gudgeon with this in here?

DRC
 
Hold on Johan. If you cannot change the angle of attack on the boat it will not work. At all. How do you achieve the 1cm of fore aft range on the pintle's intersection with the rudder gudgeon with this in here?

DRC
The nut slides in the slot in the carbon part, and the gudgeon pin also has some longitudal movement in the nut because I filed up the hole to a slot. Currently there is 7 mm adjustment range for AOA (haven't needed more) but can increase that by more filing
 

Lloyd.exe

New member
Hi,

For the past couple months I’ve really been struggling to hoist the sail on the UFO. It has been bad since I got it but this season it’s much worse and the boat is unusable at the moment. Again today the sail wouldn’t hoist and I couldn’t sail. Attached below is stuff I will try next, if there is anything else I should give a go, please let me know! I really want to sail as much as possible although this is stopped me.

This is what happens=
-Rigging is generally fine until…. The sail
-The sail doesn’t budge after a certain point hoisting
-I don’t know whether it is the track or the sail
-It happens on both big and small sails
-The track has always been slightly out of alignment at one of the mast joins.
-The sail is getting increasingly more frayed
-Tried silicone-spray…..didn’t work

Also=
-The laminated carbon section at the front (the one that spins round over the pin) is delaminating - is there a fix?
-The arches/divots where the pin lies are breaking off - is there a fix?
-The philip-head screw that fits the washers in the same section is de-threading the hole it is inserted into and has come loose - is the a fix?

Thank you so much in advance! :)

Yours sincerely,

Lloyd Bigger

9BFF74E3-4C36-4925-8DEE-F95DA2D6BB68.png
 

V21

Member
362
87
GA
I have just read a whole bunch of this thread an the guide, maybe I missed it, did anyone ever do a guide for replacing the spreader bracket on the mast ?

Thanks
 

pudge

Member
413
138
World Wide Web
Hi,

For the past couple months I’ve really been struggling to hoist the sail on the UFO. It has been bad since I got it but this season it’s much worse and the boat is unusable at the moment. Again today the sail wouldn’t hoist and I couldn’t sail. Attached below is stuff I will try next, if there is anything else I should give a go, please let me know! I really want to sail as much as possible although this is stopped me.

This is what happens=
-Rigging is generally fine until…. The sail
-The sail doesn’t budge after a certain point hoisting
-I don’t know whether it is the track or the sail
-It happens on both big and small sails
-The track has always been slightly out of alignment at one of the mast joins.
-The sail is getting increasingly more frayed
-Tried silicone-spray…..didn’t work

Also=
-The laminated carbon section at the front (the one that spins round over the pin) is delaminating - is there a fix?
-The arches/divots where the pin lies are breaking off - is there a fix?
-The philip-head screw that fits the washers in the same section is de-threading the hole it is inserted into and has come loose - is the a fix?

Thank you so much in advance! :)

Yours sincerely,

Lloyd Bigger

View attachment 579610
I'd say last resort would be to lay the boat on its side like a skiff.
 

V21

Member
362
87
GA
@Rojoyinc - there's an online doc (ask Fulcrum) that explains it all...

From description and pic, looks like you got CF "sleeve" which might be a hint that they'll suggest you reinforce the boom forks or is just a gift / extra. If gift, extra, it is amazeballs to repair a broken tiller extension, tiller, etc (note!!! it's not the only ingredient, but it's the hardest-to-source ingredient).

For spreader bracket, make damn sure you use the right glue and procedure. Lots of pressure on that bonding point.
Just a couple more details on the last sentence if anyone has them. Thanks
 

martin 'hoff

Super Anarchist
2,317
1,147
Miami
Hi,

For the past couple months I’ve really been struggling to hoist the sail on the UFO. It has been bad since I got it but this season it’s much worse and the boat is unusable at the moment. Again today the sail wouldn’t hoist and I couldn’t sail. Attached below is stuff I will try next, if there is anything else I should give a go, please let me know! I really want to sail as much as possible although this is stopped me.

This is what happens=
-Rigging is generally fine until…. The sail
-The sail doesn’t budge after a certain point hoisting
-I don’t know whether it is the track or the sail
-It happens on both big and small sails
-The track has always been slightly out of alignment at one of the mast joins.
-The sail is getting increasingly more frayed
-Tried silicone-spray…..didn’t work

Also=
-The laminated carbon section at the front (the one that spins round over the pin) is delaminating - is there a fix?
-The arches/divots where the pin lies are breaking off - is there a fix?
-The philip-head screw that fits the washers in the same section is de-threading the hole it is inserted into and has come loose - is the a fix?

Thank you so much in advance! :)

Yours sincerely,

Lloyd Bigger

View attachment 579610
Yeah shrouds entirely slack. Stand aft port side. Pull on halyard like you want to bend the mast.

Sail won't go up until the mast is super bent.

The above sentence is the answer 99% of the time.

Check for problems obviously. Lubrication. Frayed sail around the bolt rope. If the tracks don't align well you can sand the inside to smooth out the step (sandpaper around a rope...)
 

pqbon

Anarchist
552
277
Cambridge UK
Yeah shrouds entirely slack. Stand aft port side. Pull on halyard like you want to bend the mast.

Sail won't go up until the mast is super bent.

The above sentence is the answer 99% of the time.

Check for problems obviously. Lubrication. Frayed sail around the bolt rope. If the tracks don't align well you can sand the inside to smooth out the step (sandpaper around a rope...)
Assuming the track and sail are OK - sailkote sailkote sailkote --- hit track and bolt rope.
 

V21

Member
362
87
GA
Plexus is the right thing. Thickened GFlex the 2nd best option. Fillet - a really good fillet- around the edges only, don't bond the inner faces.
PXL_20230312_204540427.jpg

This doesn't show it too well, but I am left with a "re enforcement patch" Imagine a square of carbon wrapped onto the spar under where the old bracket was. Do I need to get this off ? I am thinking yes as the tolerance of the new bracket seems to suggest that, but I didn't remove it yet in case I am wrong.
PXL_20230312_204559993.jpg
The new bracket on the right side of the picture was slid onto the tapered part of the spar and slides down to approx 1 ft above where it needs to end up. I am not sure if I need to remove the aforementioned reinforcement and gently tap the new bracket down the spar. Or open up the new bracket with a dremel or similar. If the reinforcement has to stay on I will definately need to open it up.

Which is correct.

Thanks
 

Dave Clark

Anarchist
929
914
Rhode Island
View attachment 579892
This doesn't show it too well, but I am left with a "re enforcement patch" Imagine a square of carbon wrapped onto the spar under where the old bracket was. Do I need to get this off ? I am thinking yes as the tolerance of the new bracket seems to suggest that, but I didn't remove it yet in case I am wrong.
View attachment 579893
The new bracket on the right side of the picture was slid onto the tapered part of the spar and slides down to approx 1 ft above where it needs to end up. I am not sure if I need to remove the aforementioned reinforcement and gently tap the new bracket down the spar. Or open up the new bracket with a dremel or similar. If the reinforcement has to stay on I will definately need to open it up.

Which is correct.

Thanks
That goofy liuttle carbon sleeve from the old bracket has to go too. All told it's just another glue line that can shear. The new piece in the right hand side of the picture is all we use in production is all we use and it's been the standard since mid 2019. There were further versions that I was pushing for, but the MK3.5 is so reliable, we've just married it permanently.

DRC
 

Dave Clark

Anarchist
929
914
Rhode Island
Yeah shrouds entirely slack. Stand aft port side. Pull on halyard like you want to bend the mast.

Sail won't go up until the mast is super bent.

The above sentence is the answer 99% of the time.

Check for problems obviously. Lubrication. Frayed sail around the bolt rope. If the tracks don't align well you can sand the inside to smooth out the step (sandpaper around a rope...)
Also make sure the shrouds have NO tails at all after the knots. Things can look slack but if the knots were a bit greedy and took up excess scope in the line, the system can look totally slack before you start hoisting and then bind like mad around half way through. I've fielded this service call countless times over the years.

I'm not kidding- it's almost word for word the same conversation each time.

"They are loose!"
"Right now, with the luff-round not pushing against the midsection, yes. Look- just prove me wrong. Untie the shrouds from the black low friction rings at the shroud tackle on each side and try hoisting. If it goes up, I'm right that it's binding and needs to be tied with more scope. If it still doesn't go up I'm 100% wrong and it's something else. Good?"
"They're slack, Dave. I can tell they're loose. This mast doesn't work!"
"So prove it. Untie the knots, try it with that variable fully removed and try it."
"FINE but it's not going to work."
.............Customer calls back six minutes later.....
"It went right up the mast. I'll retie the knots with less tail and we should be good."
"Thank you for hearing me out"

The good news is that once the rather inverted relationship between the rig tension and the luff round is understood, tuning the sail gets really really easy and it ends up being a massively adjustable and useful system.

Rally report to come. It was a blast.

DRC
 

V21

Member
362
87
GA
That goofy liuttle carbon sleeve from the old bracket has to go too. All told it's just another glue line that can shear. The new piece in the right hand side of the picture is all we use in production is all we use and it's been the standard since mid 2019. There were further versions that I was pushing for, but the MK3.5 is so reliable, we've just married it permanently.

DRC
Thanks Dave, I will remove the old sleeve and gently tap the new bracket down the taper, hopefully into place, if it gets tight and feels like something will break I will very carefully open up the bracket with sandpaper or similar.

FYI this is the bracket you handed to me on Sunday.

Ben and "Dumpster Phoenix"
 

Dave Clark

Anarchist
929
914
Rhode Island
Thanks Dave, I will remove the old sleeve and gently tap the new bracket down the taper, hopefully into place, if it gets tight and feels like something will break I will very carefully open up the bracket with sandpaper or similar.

FYI this is the bracket you handed to me on Sunday.

Ben and "Dumpster Phoenix"
Aha! I should have figured. If it gets tight, a teeny drum sander on a pistol drill is the go-to for widening the ID of the bracket.

DRC
 
Happy Monday! I hear the Savannah event was well attended, and i hope it was a good time! Reports? @Kelly Federal ? @Dave Clark ?
Martin, Sorry you couldn’t attend. I was really looking forward to meeting you. It was a real blast and a super huge success.
I think I counted 13 boats. Attendees ranged in age from 2 years old to early 70’s and ability ranged from pure newbie to Dave like.
The weather was pleasant for the most part. We sailed everyday of the event with Sunday providing the best winds for foiling.
The Savannah Yacht Club and staff are no question, the Best of the Best! We were treated like royalty.
Kelly was the ultimate host and provided an excellent ground school class and Dave treated us all to his secrets of tuning.
I can say with a lot of confidence that we all learned a lot and had a pretty great time doing so. I know I made many new friends and look forward to the next time we can meet up again.

Thanks Kelly, David and all the great people of the Savannah Yacht Club!
 

Joseph Lapp

New member
41
18
Duluth MN
I can't thank Kelly and Dave enough for the UFO Event at the Savannah YC. SYC was a fantastic venue and the club was always there to help, whether it was setting up campervan or launching and recovering the UFO.

Kelly is a great teacher and can finally say I foiled UNDER control. Dave made a fantastic presentation to the local clubs and I understand why he developed the UFO. I didn't just want to watch foiling- I wanted to do it!

Dave - just a minor bone to pick. You said you developed the UFO for people up to 65 years old. Please raise that to 75. At 72, I want to continue to show the less experienced sailors (read younger) that if I can foil so can they!

Looking forward to the next UFO event.

Joe
 

LarryO

New member
26
17
Seattle
I can't thank Kelly and Dave enough for the UFO Event at the Savannah YC. SYC was a fantastic venue and the club was always there to help, whether it was setting up campervan or launching and recovering the UFO.

Kelly is a great teacher and can finally say I foiled UNDER control. Dave made a fantastic presentation to the local clubs and I understand why he developed the UFO. I didn't just want to watch foiling- I wanted to do it!

Dave - just a minor bone to pick. You said you developed the UFO for people up to 65 years old. Please raise that to 75. At 72, I want to continue to show the less experienced sailors (read younger) that if I can foil so can they!

Looking forward to the next UFO event.

Joe
Agree on that bone picking. I'm foiling my UFO here in Seattle and just turned 71 last month. Are we past the 'best used by' date? LOL
 


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