Stiletto vs Warrior vs Viva?

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gobigkahuna

Member
116
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OBX, North Carolina
All three cats are roughly the same vintage and size.  I've only been on a Stiletto 27 so am looking for feedback on the other two.  I'll be using it for fast daysailing, weekends on the hook, pulling up on a desolate beach, etc.

 
C

Charlie P Mayer

Anarchist
598
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I owned a Stiletto 27 and I sailed on a Warrior many times in south Texas.

I did not like the Stiletto 27's dagger board setup.  Board was always hard to raise and lower.  Don't know why.

The boat had terrible weather helm in a breeze.  Never could determine why.

I would recommend inshore or near-shore sailing.  I bought a Stiletto 23 and liked it much better.

The Warrior is a much more robust design - sailed well, but it did seem much heavier than the Stiletto 27.

I think the brothers in Florida may still be refurbishing older Stilettos - worth a call anyway.

Never seen a Viva. 

S27 may work fine for you - good luck, please send pics!

Charlie

 
Rasputin22

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
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I had one of the first R 21's. Raced it in the Yachting Mag One of A Kind regatta whenever it was in New Orleans. They didn't allow Stilettos and wanted to keep it 'beach boat' and when they saw the hatch and pipe berth down (on the R 21) below had a fit! Barely got to participate in the regatta and was pretty much the scratch boat, at the bottom of the fleet! About as fast around the triangles as a Hobie 14, but keep in mind the Hobie was being sailed by one of the Alter boys. If I had been able to put in a week or so sailing the Reynolds before the race I'm sure it and I could have made a better showing. I had a terrible handicap because of the huge screecher and assy spin that Randy had built for the boat and I took a hit for the silly masthead float because Alex Koziloff the measure counted it as mast area since he felt it was providing endplate effect for the top of the main. Good boat for weekending and sleeping in the tramp but down below is like a coffin. Consider it a 3/4 scale Stiletto 27. 

 
Rasputin22

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
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If you find a Viva 27 and don't buy it, let me know. I had forgotten those but they addressed a few of the major things with the Stiletto and it was a HOT boat for its time. Not many made but one would be a keeper. 

 
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gobigkahuna

Member
116
1
OBX, North Carolina
I sailed on a Stiletto 27 in Hawaii during the 80's.  From what I recall, it was a fun boat although the daggerboard in the middle of the cockpit was weird and some water did splash up through the slot.

I demo'd the prototype Stiletto X-Series a few weeks ago.  Super sweet boat, loved all the mods they made to the original boat.  But not ready to pay $120K for a boat right now.

I've considered a Stiletto 23 and Reynolds 21, but the wife wants someplace for a private toilet / porta potti before she'll spend an overnight on the boat.  I know that won't work on a S23 but how about a Reynolds 21?  How wide is the R21 inside the hulls?

The only Warrior 29 I've found is in pretty rough shape.  All the aluminum is pretty badly corroded and it's been sitting in the water for a long time.

As funky as the Stiletto 27 may be, it's looking like the better option...

 
Rasputin22

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
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That Viva looks great! Thanks for the link. You will soon get used to the single daggerboard on the Stiletto. I made a huge improvement by fitting a wooden water ski to the bracket at the bottom of the bracket that braces the daggerboard. It acted as an endplate for the board and kept the nuisiance splashing down and provided a measure of lift at speed. Lots of grumbles about it though when we showed up at the Nationals with it fitted though. Pretty hard to sail a Stiletto over to a capsize because the board loses grip on the water after heeling over 30 degrees and the boat sort of side slips and settles back into the water. Over the front is another thing though but never done so myself. I have capsized a Reynolds 21 though! Famously.

 
multihuler

multihuler

Anarchist
768
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Reno
gobigkahuna said:
I saw one Reynolds 33 that was in my price range that sold a while back.  Haven't seen anything else I'd call "cheap".
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$36500 seemed cheap, considering they are not that old and $120k new, the 14ft beam caused the massive depreciation, and the 16ft beam boats are much more manageable.

 
thinwater

thinwater

Super Anarchist
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Deale, MD
Charlie P Mayer said:
I owned a Stiletto 27 and I sailed on a Warrior many times in south Texas.

I did not like the Stiletto 27's dagger board setup.  Board was always hard to raise and lower.  Don't know why.

The boat had terrible weather helm in a breeze.  Never could determine why.

I would recommend inshore or near-shore sailing.  I bought a Stiletto 23 and liked it much better.

The Warrior is a much more robust design - sailed well, but it did seem much heavier than the Stiletto 27.

I think the brothers in Florida may still be refurbishing older Stilettos - worth a call anyway.

Never seen a Viva. 

S27 may work fine for you - good luck, please send pics!

Charlie
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Easy problems to fix. I had a Stiletto 27 for 8 year and wrote a book about some of our long cruises (local guide book, but with lots of Stiletto tips--see "Circumnavigating the Delmarva..." below).

Hard to Move Board. There is rubber in the slot which is high-friction when dry. To lower, pull up a few inches to wet the rubber, and then drop. IF stuck at the dock, pour a cup of water in the slot. When sailing, come up wind a little to lighten the side load. Then it slides easily.

Weather Helm. Could be sail imbalance or pinching. You've got to keep these boats moving. The fore-aft location of the dagger board is adjustable--rake it all the way back, most of the time.  Additionally, the rake of the rudders can be changed. With these steps taken, the helm should be very light.

Splashing. I cut the top of the board off level with the deck (at the appropriate rake angle) and attached a 1x4x24 board to the top, level with the deck, with webbing handles and a gasket underneath. The splashing stopped and I could then use the space for a cooler. Easy.

 
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G

GC Sailor

Member
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gc
Viva is a much faster boat, well designed and engineered. A vary large sail plan, needs experienced crew in heavy winds. It folds so not too difficult to trailer once you get the hang of it. Heavier than the Stiletto, so not as easy to pull up on a beach but can handle big seas better than the light weight full bowed Stiletto. 

Warrior has to be taken apart to trailer, a heavy boat so slower than the Stiletto. Goes to weather better than the Stiletto because of the in-hull dagger boards and finer hull shape.

Stiletto is very light, great boat to pull the bows up on the beach. Put a tent on the trampoline and you have a great cruiser. Fast on a reach or downwind (it planes in heavy air).You get used to the centerline dagger board, the Stiletto goes to weather just fine as long as you don't pinch. Except for real light air, it is a dog in light air upwind. The hard deck is a plus. Because of its light weight the Stiletto feels like a big beach cat. 

Not many Viva's or Warriors around.

.

.   

 
G

gobigkahuna

Member
116
1
OBX, North Carolina
GC Sailor said:
Viva is a much faster boat, well designed and engineered. A vary large sail plan, needs experienced crew in heavy winds. It folds so not too difficult to trailer once you get the hang of it. Heavier than the Stiletto, so not as easy to pull up on a beach but can handle big seas better than the light weight full bowed Stiletto. 

Warrior has to be taken apart to trailer, a heavy boat so slower than the Stiletto. Goes to weather better than the Stiletto because of the in-hull dagger boards and finer hull shape.

Stiletto is very light, great boat to pull the bows up on the beach. Put a tent on the trampoline and you have a great cruiser. Fast on a reach or downwind (it planes in heavy air).You get used to the centerline dagger board, the Stiletto goes to weather just fine as long as you don't pinch. Except for real light air, it is a dog in light air upwind. The hard deck is a plus. Because of its light weight the Stiletto feels like a big beach cat. 

Not many Viva's or Warriors around.
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One thing that concerns me about the Stiletto is the "fighter jet" hatches.  Seems a bit risky and might not secure enough to prevent flooding the hulls in the event of a capsize.  I've seen several photos on the net of a capsized Stiletto, the hulls at least partially filled with water and the hatches open or missing.  Has anyone seen any way to improve these hatches?

 
C

Charlie P Mayer

Anarchist
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Hatches are not an issue - not perfect but they work well enough.

GC Sailor: I have no experience with a Viva, but you are right on the rest.

 
L

lakepee

Member
265
4
New Orleans
Max Rockatansky said:
I used to own the Suares VIVA and I suspect Rasputin22 knows the boat. I sold her to Calif and I believe she is now known as AVALON DARLIN. The V is a powerful scary machine. That said, this boat, the Granger modified Stiletto, is even more powerful and scary, and if I had the dosh I'd buy in a NY second:

If the link doesn't work let me know

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1701502173212658&id=100000586761335
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I knew the Dr, and I know who saved his Viva after he passed. And now I know who Max is. But I'm still trying to work out who Rasputin is...someone I knew from mid 80 s new Orleans beach cat racing/sailboats south/Colin clark scene...

 
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