Supporting a new sailing community venture in the NYC Metro Area

[Sailors NYC]

a nice israeli girl helping get more people sailing on america's most populous island; we'd be the first to support this if it seemed worthy. seems a little sketchy though.

6924: why is the owner of MSC creepy to women? i have never met him. does he look like the dude behind the wheel of the panel van with 'free candy' written on the side?

Of course it's a bit sketchy... that's a crowdfunding campaign if you are interested in hearing more details - feel free to email me privatley.

and thank you for your support!

Cheers!

 

[Sailors NYC]

What boats do you have? Since you don't mention the purchase of the four "race boats". 15k to renovate a rental property? What is it, a bathroom?

This is a crowdfunding campaign for raising a portion of the start-up costs. I am planning and already in touch with a few J105 boat owners to enroll with the club in return for coverage of their expenses. as for renovation - well - it's not a bathroom - but the space I've been looking at won't need a lot of work done, and I know some people in the industry

If you are interested in hearing more details and/or think you can assist further to this venture - please send me a private message.

Thanks!

 

[Sailors NYC]

Jesus F'ing Christ - SA sure is pyscho sometimes

Always whining about getting more people into sailing, especially women.. Here is a young woman who wants to start a sailing program in NYC & all the SA peanut gallery can do is talk trash. Instead of talking trash, why not use your vast epic trove of experience to help guide the lassie along.

This is a great project - Manhattan has a shortage of sailing programs and an over abundance of 20-30 somethings who want to sail. Plenty of Manhattan woman sailors do not want anything to do with Manhattan Sailing Club. Many women are really creeped out by the owner of MSC - Michael Fortenbaugh. Also, long time members of MSC are leaving in droves since Fortenbaugh seems to have lost his way with Fortenbaugh focused on the lucrative floating bar rather sailing.

 

 

So, why not an alternative run by a woman ? There is more than enough demand for sailing in Manhattan for more than one club to prosper.

 

What advice does SA have for someone wanting to start ?

6924 - thanks for your support!

Cheers!

 

[Sailors NYC]

Beyond the nitty gritty of business plans and uber optimistic financial projections, I just don't see how this is anything innovative. The plans from the video seem to be that they will get docks somewhere for boats they haven't yet identified. Hopefully by those docks will be a rental space that they can acquire and renovate for 15k. Just on that last point, I have a 700sqft apartment in a luxury building in midtown Manhattan, the rent comes out to be 36k per year. Where do they expect to be able to get the square footage to support a robust membership for less than half that amount, I know the descriptions was for a cozy place but still.

I just can't see how this is anything more than, "We want to be Manhattan Sailing Club, but with bigger boats." Where is the innovation?

A lot of people think that sailing bigger boats is a whole different thibg than sailing J24s. On larger boats you can also cruise or host rahter than just race.

 

[Sailors NYC]

I'm a bit confused about whether this would be more like a community sailing center (non profit, typically uses smaller and less expensive equipment and has a focus on youth and other special populations, has emphasis on instruction/ safety/ seamanship, has a focus on meeting community needs and can qualify for 501©(3) status), or more like something that would compete with for-profit sailboat rental companies, given the type of equipment proposed and the apparent marketing focus.

What I said in the other thread:

There's a business plan somewhere, is there? It should address the experience of the people in the organization (business or other organizational experience, marketing, sailing and boating instruction, maintenance, etc., with references), organization finances and sources of start-up and reserve capital, start-up costs, projected financials for the first few years, any agreements that are in place for a venue, quotes for insurance, standards for staff hiring, standard operating procedures, how customers will receive screening and orientation, forms that customers will sign, how business licensing and regulation are being dealt with, all that sort of thing. All of the questions a participant or supporter might have about who what where when how much should be answered credibly in the plan.

For-profit companies and Non-profits alike have business plans.

Guidestar puts out some good articles about how non-profits can help make their supporters feel secure, if this is trying to be a non-profit.

Something else a business plan for a nonprofit can do is very carefully answer the questions of:

What is the problem?

.... (how urgent is it, why is it not being met now, who has tried to address it in the past and what happened, why is this important?), and

How will we solve the problem?

........... (how can our success be seen and measured by our supporters, the community we serve, and the larger community, who will benefit, what will successful outcomes look like?)

In this community, you can expect lots of razzing and negative assumptions, especially if you don't state your relevant experience and background right up front. If you allow room for doubt, that's what you'll get; and you won't get much benefit of the doubt.

One other thing that affects your credibility is your answer to the question of "How much skin do you have in the game?"

If supporters see you bleeding and sacrificing that's very different than if it looks like you just want to have a fun ride at the expense of others.

rgscapt - this is a for-profit venture. there is a detailed business plan for review. please send me a private email if you are interested in getting it via email.

the crowdfunding campaign is to raise a portion of the start-up costs.

 

[rgscpat]

NYC -- got that, thanks, and sorry I wasn't clear on what was intended. Some of what I said wouldn't be applicable to a for-profit. Acquiring and maintaining the capital equipment -- boats, maintenance facilities -- becomes more important, since you wouldn't have the volunteer base that a non-profit would have. I wonder whether either Benehuntelinas or miscellaneous older privately owned boats would be cheaper to acquire than J's, but each boat type would have maintenance issues, and a motley fleet of older boats would have bigger and more costly maintenance issues.

rgscapt - this is a for-profit venture. there is a detailed business plan for review. please send me a private email if you are interested in getting it via email.

the crowdfunding campaign is to raise a portion of the start-up costs.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

rgscapt - this is a for-profit venture.

you didn't hesitate to beg for money here on a website supported by actual paying advertisers, did you?

buy a fucking ad.

 

[Sailors NYC]

rgscapt - this is a for-profit venture.

you didn't hesitate to beg for money here on a website supported by actual paying advertisers, did you?

buy a fucking ad.

Haven't got to that stage yet but surely will!

to clarify - this business is yet to be established. I am not selling memberships yet - hence advertising is not relevant yet.

at this point I'm looking for fellow NYC sailors who are interested in the option of having such a service, and that will be willing to spread the word about it and by that help with my crowdfunding campaign: http://igg.me/p/292144/x/1991465

Thanks!

 

[One of Five]

what's funny is...if someone REALLY wants to sail, owns a sailboat but can;t afford NY Harbor berthing, City Island berthing, LI berthing, NJ berthing, why not get a mooring north of NYC?? Nyack, Tarrytown, Ossining ALL have less expensive alternatives, some quite good sailing in the summer (Haverstraw bay) and are less than 40 min. train ride to get there.....

THIS /\ /\

Peekskill Bay is fantastic. Some areas of the Hudson are incredible.

 

[6924]

40 minute train ride ?

Young Manhattantites live on an island - why would they leave to get to the water ?

 

[MR.CLEAN]

40 minute train ride ?

Young Manhattantites live on an island - why would they leave to get to the water ?

if you live in manhattan, a 40 minute metro north ride is a small price to pay for racing in good boats on good water. How long do you think it takes to get around NYC anyway?

 

[redboat]

According to the other thread they are "talking" to Liberty Landing Marina in Jersey City so you still have to schlepp over there for the "convenience" alledgedly offered.

 

[Sailors NYC]

According to the other thread they are "talking" to Liberty Landing Marina in Jersey City so you still have to schlepp over there for the "convenience" alledgedly offered.

Libert Landing Marina is a 10 minutes Schlep on a ferry from North Cove. Plus - starting last summer - they are operating pier 25 in TriBeCa - so Sailors NYC will be able to accomodate manhattanites from their own ground as well

 

[PurpleOnion]

According to the other thread they are "talking" to Liberty Landing Marina in Jersey City so you still have to schlepp over there for the "convenience" alledgedly offered.

While not geographically far, that means a subway/bus ride to a PATH train, the PATH train ride to Exchange Pl or Grove St. followed by either a 10-15 minute walk across a foot bridge, a 10 minute cab ride, or a ?? minute light rail ride plus a half mile walk. Not the worst of journeys, but not every NY'ers idea of convenience.

 

[Snaggletooth]

Not the worst of journeys, but not every NY'ers idea of convenience.

Howe abote PO's ?

 

[left hook]

According to the other thread they are "talking" to Liberty Landing Marina in Jersey City so you still have to schlepp over there for the "convenience" alledgedly offered.

While not geographically far, that means a subway/bus ride to a PATH train, the PATH train ride to Exchange Pl or Grove St. followed by either a 10-15 minute walk across a foot bridge, a 10 minute cab ride, or a ?? minute light rail ride plus a half mile walk. Not the worst of journeys, but not every NY'ers idea of convenience.

And when you start comparing that distance and time to the trip out to north or south shores of Long Island Sound it seems silly to have to throw your lot in with this shoddy group.

 

[BarePoles]

I'm a 'young manhattanite' sailor and prefer to take the 30 min train ride from grand central to race on LIS with good clubs and on nice boats.

The NYC scene is too much of a 'pay to play' game and you end up with a bunch of rookie banker types in offshore Musto gear doing Wednesday night beer can racing with lame made up rules. Just saying

 

[zinger]

As another "young manhattanite" I agree with your assessment of the NYC scene.

The Hudson and NY Harbor are not the ideal sailing conditions unless you enjoy current. 4 years sailing under a bridge at a "technical" school you get used to it. All I can see coming out of this new venture are what BarePoles describes above.

Their racing program wont be real. The only Real racing I can think of in NY Harbor was the Goveners Cup and Stars&Stripes Regattas which have been non existant as far as I can recall.

This seems just like MSC only with 105s.

Full disclosure, I have never sailed at/with MYC, I have only herd stories.

I would be curious to see the Busness plan and or Rules.

Sailing in Manhattan is more of a novilty than anythign else. At least for me and my set up it's really convenient. It's nice to escape the the city every now and then without actually leaving.

WLIS, for what its worth is worth the travel time. Even Wensday Nights on Staten Island are better than the Hudson with the Express Bus.

From the other thread NYC Sailors mentions cruising as an option. Drop anchor in Sandy Hook/Horseshoe Cove for the weekend is the only thing I can think of. I doubt that they would even allow members to go that far. Same rules as everyplace else in the city would probably apply the "playground" between Brooklyn, Verrizano and George Washington Bridges.

Rant/random thoughs done.

 

[Sailors NYC]

As another "young manhattanite" I agree with your assessment of the NYC scene.

The Hudson and NY Harbor are not the ideal sailing conditions unless you enjoy current. 4 years sailing under a bridge at a "technical" school you get used to it. All I can see coming out of this new venture are what BarePoles describes above.

Their racing program wont be real. The only Real racing I can think of in NY Harbor was the Goveners Cup and Stars&Stripes Regattas which have been non existant as far as I can recall.

This seems just like MSC only with 105s.

Full disclosure, I have never sailed at/with MYC, I have only herd stories.

I would be curious to see the Busness plan and or Rules.

Sailing in Manhattan is more of a novilty than anythign else. At least for me and my set up it's really convenient. It's nice to escape the the city every now and then without actually leaving.

WLIS, for what its worth is worth the travel time. Even Wensday Nights on Staten Island are better than the Hudson with the Express Bus.

From the other thread NYC Sailors mentions cruising as an option. Drop anchor in Sandy Hook/Horseshoe Cove for the weekend is the only thing I can think of. I doubt that they would even allow members to go that far. Same rules as everyplace else in the city would probably apply the "playground" between Brooklyn, Verrizano and George Washington Bridges.

Rant/random thoughs done.

Pez - thanks for your thoughtful feedback. I am more than happy to show you a business plan and share ideas that don't belong in this thread with you.

Feel free to email me your email address in a private message.

Cheers!

 

[left hook]

Why would you be averse to posting a business plan so that the public can see it?

Also. Please note that when other people come around here looking for money they pay for an ad first. No exceptions.