Supporting a new sailing community venture in the NYC Metro Area

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,596
I've raced in Manhattan a few times and ferried through the East River a few times.

Princeton used to host collegiate J24s out of MSC. With big wind, it was fantastic (and a novelty!) to race in the confluence of the Hudson and the East river--and to treat the ferries with deference. And a Monte Carlo start from the new development on the NJ side was a perk.

But that was full-out college sailing, spending "other people's money" .

I've also started a major ocean race starting from the Financial district. With light wind, we almost had to fend off ab anchored barge, and did a few 360s in the eddies off Governor's Island. The best part of starting in NY is that you get to be in NY in the last days before going into the wild Atlantic. That made it all worth it.

Somewhat related, I raced and cruised extensively on the Delaware.

Urban sailing is really different from the more remote variety. Yes there is novelty and that is important. But there is also access, there is change of viewpoint, there are challenges good and bad. Current, for sure. That's river racing! Commercial traffic, shifty winds, oil slicks, submerged objects--all part of it. But the WLIS scene is certainly going to remain the "preferred" option for most sailors. Manhattan is a pressure cooker and people who live there want to get the hell OUT on weekends.

In my experience on the Delaware in Philadelphia, we had a much better situation than Manhattan. Urban access, without the full-on urban pain in the ass trouble. And perhaps along with the zany aspect, we also had some respectable high level racing. There used to be a bona fide Star class fleet there. And Lightings. And j24s, and J22s, and J27s and some others. And multiple clubs. Manhattan is just so freaking overpowered by commercial/security traffic concerns that this is going to be a tough sell.

I've also been out on that water on commercial voyages. The wake wash from all that traffic is horrendous. If you think it is bad on WLIS on 4th of July...

 
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PurpleOnion

Anarchist
869
308
New York, NY
Why would you be averse to posting a business plan so that the public can see it?

Also. Please note that when other people come around here looking for money they pay for an ad first. No exceptions.
Maybe because the community is being mined for its ideas without any plan for compensating said community.

Many good ideas get offered up here even amidst the vitriol. If people were worried about compensation, fair play, and not helping somebody else make money then they probably shouldn't post their ideas/suggestions/warnings. I'm not saying that most people have a problem offering up free information to someone who will use it for their own financial gain. I'm just saying that if people had a problem with that then they shouldn't post their information in an open public forum.

 
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6924

Super Anarchist
1,390
6
a 40 minute trek is fine for weekend sailing, but wadda' 'bout weekDAYS ?

Young Manhattanites go out every night of the week - so why not sailing ?

In the mid /late 1990's I kept a beat up 3ksb boat at Liberty Landing with a few buddies of mine. We'd ditch work a few minutes early (I worked in Midtown at the time) be sailing as early as 5;30pm. In the summer we'd sail 2-4 times a week. It was easy and simple. There used to be a great Tiki style bar on the NJ side right by the ferry pick up. Take a cab home and be in bed early.

As far as the specifics - 1) Liberty Landing is a decent starting location. Better to have a location on the island - didn't sailboats used to have slips on South Street ?

2) The J/105 is a terrible boat for NYC Harbor. the J/015 is a pig in light air. Instead of J/105s, they should be looking at boats that perform in well in the very light airs of June-July-August. West Coast Builders produced zillions of very fine light air boats.

 
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RumLine

Anarchist
943
40
Western LIS
I've been pretty vocal about my disgust for this plan in the other forum, but since Nitzan seems to keep pressing the SA community for money, free advertising and ideas I think she needs to be a little more open with us.

Publish your plan or at least some sort of pitch book, let your potential "investors" know what they can expect to receive in exchange for their hard earned money. Is our support considered a donation? or an investment? Where else are you marketing this idea? As of right now you have raised $474.00 of the $100,000.00 needed. How much of that $474 is your own money?

I don't know why anyone would want to sail in NY Harbor when there are so many better options nearby, but I'm sure you'll find some schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors.

 

BlondeWithFreeBoat

Anarchist
935
66
NY
a 40 minute trek is fine for weekend sailing, but wadda' 'bout weekDAYS ?

Young Manhattanites go out every night of the week - so why not sailing ?
Personally, I find ways to flee the office on Wednesday nights in time to get a train to Long Island and be on the dock by 6 to race. If work is slow I can get some Thursday beercans in there, too. Sounds a couple of my other fellow city dwellers above do the same thing up to Westchester and CT.

If I had the option of sailing after work around here on weekdays, I'd take it, but that's already available through MSC, which I'm considering to supplement my suburban sailing this summer (and I'm not easily creeped out so I should be OK there). What I don't understand about what's being proposed in the video is...what exactly will this be? Four J-105s, with how many members who are all competing for boatspace to do everything from racing to cocktail drinking to cruising? At best you can only do two of those three at any one time, and how many members are they planning to have sharing these four boats with all these conflicting aims?

 

Sailors NYC

Member
50
0
NYC
I've been pretty vocal about my disgust for this plan in the other forum, but since Nitzan seems to keep pressing the SA community for money, free advertising and ideas I think she needs to be a little more open with us.

Publish your plan or at least some sort of pitch book, let your potential "investors" know what they can expect to receive in exchange for their hard earned money. Is our support considered a donation? or an investment? Where else are you marketing this idea? As of right now you have raised $474.00 of the $100,000.00 needed. How much of that $474 is your own money?

I don't know why anyone would want to sail in NY Harbor when there are so many better options nearby, but I'm sure you'll find some schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors.
Rum Line - I apologize I am not going to share the detailed business plan in a public forum. Business is business :)

If you have a business interest or if you are serious about considering investing in this venture - you are more than welcome to send me a private email and I'll respond. I hope you understand. As I wrote before - the Indiegogo campaign is a marketing and fundraising tool called "Crowd-funding" and is not my main fundraiser. For that I am looking for serious investors and willing to give all the necessary background and figures.

And as for the "schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors" - well - I call them: "Potential Customers"

Cheers!

Nitzan

 

RumLine

Anarchist
943
40
Western LIS
I've been pretty vocal about my disgust for this plan in the other forum, but since Nitzan seems to keep pressing the SA community for money, free advertising and ideas I think she needs to be a little more open with us.

Publish your plan or at least some sort of pitch book, let your potential "investors" know what they can expect to receive in exchange for their hard earned money. Is our support considered a donation? or an investment? Where else are you marketing this idea? As of right now you have raised $474.00 of the $100,000.00 needed. How much of that $474 is your own money?

I don't know why anyone would want to sail in NY Harbor when there are so many better options nearby, but I'm sure you'll find some schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors.
Rum Line - I apologize I am not going to share the detailed business plan in a public forum. Business is business :)

If you have a business interest or if you are serious about considering investing in this venture - you are more than welcome to send me a private email and I'll respond. I hope you understand. As I wrote before - the Indiegogo campaign is a marketing and fundraising tool called "Crowd-funding" and is not my main fundraiser. For that I am looking for serious investors and willing to give all the necessary background and figures.

And as for the "schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors" - well - I call them: "Potential Customers"

Cheers!

Nitzan
You're right, business is business...so buy an ad or get out. You're running a for-profit business and panhandling in the SA Forums.

 

PurpleOnion

Anarchist
869
308
New York, NY
a 40 minute trek is fine for weekend sailing, but wadda' 'bout weekDAYS ?

Young Manhattanites go out every night of the week - so why not sailing ?
Personally, I find ways to flee the office on Wednesday nights in time to get a train to Long Island and be on the dock by 6 to race. If work is slow I can get some Thursday beercans in there, too. Sounds a couple of my other fellow city dwellers above do the same thing up to Westchester and CT.

If I had the option of sailing after work around here on weekdays, I'd take it, but that's already available through MSC, which I'm considering to supplement my suburban sailing this summer (and I'm not easily creeped out so I should be OK there). What I don't understand about what's being proposed in the video is...what exactly will this be? Four J-105s, with how many members who are all competing for boatspace to do everything from racing to cocktail drinking to cruising? At best you can only do two of those three at any one time, and how many members are they planning to have sharing these four boats with all these conflicting aims?
I believe your confusion is shared by most of us. Providing everything to everyone is not usually accomplished with $100k. By "not usually", I mean never and you can substitute $1M, $10M, or any other figure for $100k and the argument will still hold. It's hard to take this seriously without more information.

 

Sailors NYC

Member
50
0
NYC
a 40 minute trek is fine for weekend sailing, but wadda' 'bout weekDAYS ?

Young Manhattanites go out every night of the week - so why not sailing ?
Personally, I find ways to flee the office on Wednesday nights in time to get a train to Long Island and be on the dock by 6 to race. If work is slow I can get some Thursday beercans in there, too. Sounds a couple of my other fellow city dwellers above do the same thing up to Westchester and CT.

If I had the option of sailing after work around here on weekdays, I'd take it, but that's already available through MSC, which I'm considering to supplement my suburban sailing this summer (and I'm not easily creeped out so I should be OK there). What I don't understand about what's being proposed in the video is...what exactly will this be? Four J-105s, with how many members who are all competing for boatspace to do everything from racing to cocktail drinking to cruising? At best you can only do two of those three at any one time, and how many members are they planning to have sharing these four boats with all these conflicting aims?
Sorry but this is not the place to share the details of the business operation. But just to give you an idea - Every sailing club that has boats have a certain ratio of members/boats. In my research I found that number and I can assure you there'll be enough sailing time for everyone :)

Feel free to contact me personally for more details.

Cheers!

 

Sailors NYC

Member
50
0
NYC
a 40 minute trek is fine for weekend sailing, but wadda' 'bout weekDAYS ?

Young Manhattanites go out every night of the week - so why not sailing ?

In the mid /late 1990's I kept a beat up 3ksb boat at Liberty Landing with a few buddies of mine. We'd ditch work a few minutes early (I worked in Midtown at the time) be sailing as early as 5;30pm. In the summer we'd sail 2-4 times a week. It was easy and simple. There used to be a great Tiki style bar on the NJ side right by the ferry pick up. Take a cab home and be in bed early.

As far as the specifics - 1) Liberty Landing is a decent starting location. Better to have a location on the island - didn't sailboats used to have slips on South Street ?

2) The J/105 is a terrible boat for NYC Harbor. the J/015 is a pig in light air. Instead of J/105s, they should be looking at boats that perform in well in the very light airs of June-July-August. West Coast Builders produced zillions of very fine light air boats.
re:

Young Manhattanites go out every night of the week - so why not sailing ? - My point exactly!

re: 1) Liberty Landing is a decent starting location. Better to have a location on the island - didn't sailboats used to have slips on South Street ? - East river is rough on the boats and the South Street Sea Port is not sheltered enough. MSC moved out of there because of that.

Liberty Landing is currently operating the mooring field on Pier 25 in TriBeCa which will allow service to Manahttanites. Unfortunately - the NYC waterfront realestate is still strictlly ran by the city, and it will take a while before new marinas will be built along it.

re: 2) The J/105 is a terrible boat for NYC Harbor. the J/015 is a pig in light air. Instead of J/105s, they should be looking at boats that perform in well in the very light airs of June-July-August. West Coast Builders produced zillions of very fine light air boats.

Well - I guess that to each his own taste in boats. I hate J24s and think they are the worst for the harbor, I also hate Hunters and other cruisers. I am thrilled by sailing a J105, and so as many sailors I met who were druelling at the thought of being able to sail them on the Hudson. Just saying...

Cheers!

 

Sailors NYC

Member
50
0
NYC
I've raced in Manhattan a few times and ferried through the East River a few times.

Princeton used to host collegiate J24s out of MSC. With big wind, it was fantastic (and a novelty!) to race in the confluence of the Hudson and the East river--and to treat the ferries with deference. And a Monte Carlo start from the new development on the NJ side was a perk.

But that was full-out college sailing, spending "other people's money" .

I've also started a major ocean race starting from the Financial district. With light wind, we almost had to fend off ab anchored barge, and did a few 360s in the eddies off Governor's Island. The best part of starting in NY is that you get to be in NY in the last days before going into the wild Atlantic. That made it all worth it.

Somewhat related, I raced and cruised extensively on the Delaware.

Urban sailing is really different from the more remote variety. Yes there is novelty and that is important. But there is also access, there is change of viewpoint, there are challenges good and bad. Current, for sure. That's river racing! Commercial traffic, shifty winds, oil slicks, submerged objects--all part of it. But the WLIS scene is certainly going to remain the "preferred" option for most sailors. Manhattan is a pressure cooker and people who live there want to get the hell OUT on weekends.

In my experience on the Delaware in Philadelphia, we had a much better situation than Manhattan. Urban access, without the full-on urban pain in the ass trouble. And perhaps along with the zany aspect, we also had some respectable high level racing. There used to be a bona fide Star class fleet there. And Lightings. And j24s, and J22s, and J27s and some others. And multiple clubs. Manhattan is just so freaking overpowered by commercial/security traffic concerns that this is going to be a tough sell.

I've also been out on that water on commercial voyages. The wake wash from all that traffic is horrendous. If you think it is bad on WLIS on 4th of July...
Thanks for sharing your sailing experience with us! Very insightful!

cheers!

 

RumLine

Anarchist
943
40
Western LIS
I've been pretty vocal about my disgust for this plan in the other forum, but since Nitzan seems to keep pressing the SA community for money, free advertising and ideas I think she needs to be a little more open with us.

Publish your plan or at least some sort of pitch book, let your potential "investors" know what they can expect to receive in exchange for their hard earned money. Is our support considered a donation? or an investment? Where else are you marketing this idea? As of right now you have raised $474.00 of the $100,000.00 needed. How much of that $474 is your own money?

I don't know why anyone would want to sail in NY Harbor when there are so many better options nearby, but I'm sure you'll find some schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors.
Rum Line - I apologize I am not going to share the detailed business plan in a public forum. Business is business :)

If you have a business interest or if you are serious about considering investing in this venture - you are more than welcome to send me a private email and I'll respond. I hope you understand. As I wrote before - the Indiegogo campaign is a marketing and fundraising tool called "Crowd-funding" and is not my main fundraiser. For that I am looking for serious investors and willing to give all the necessary background and figures.

And as for the "schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors" - well - I call them: "Potential Customers"

Cheers!

Nitzan
Additionally, after reading through your "crowd-funding" campaign it appears that these are in fact donations and not investments. There is no equity in this venture, you're simply handing your money over to this for-profit venture in exchange for a thank you note over Twitter from an account that has 80 followers at the moment. That's if you support them with under $100. For $100 you get a keychain, for $500 you get a hat, for $1000 you get a 2 hour harbor cruise for 6 people on one of the borrowed J/105s and for $5,000 you get the hat, the keychain and dinner at a restaurant TBA.

Crowd-funding campaigns are great when they're used for charity, but they become increasingly sketchy when used to fund a new business. What you're doing here is more or less a scam. What happens if this whole project falls apart? Did I just give you $5,000 for dinner at some random restaurant? Sure I got the bottle opener and the hat, but I've got piles of that stuff for free from regattas.

 

Sailors NYC

Member
50
0
NYC
I've been pretty vocal about my disgust for this plan in the other forum, but since Nitzan seems to keep pressing the SA community for money, free advertising and ideas I think she needs to be a little more open with us.

Publish your plan or at least some sort of pitch book, let your potential "investors" know what they can expect to receive in exchange for their hard earned money. Is our support considered a donation? or an investment? Where else are you marketing this idea? As of right now you have raised $474.00 of the $100,000.00 needed. How much of that $474 is your own money?

I don't know why anyone would want to sail in NY Harbor when there are so many better options nearby, but I'm sure you'll find some schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors.
Rum Line - I apologize I am not going to share the detailed business plan in a public forum. Business is business :)

If you have a business interest or if you are serious about considering investing in this venture - you are more than welcome to send me a private email and I'll respond. I hope you understand. As I wrote before - the Indiegogo campaign is a marketing and fundraising tool called "Crowd-funding" and is not my main fundraiser. For that I am looking for serious investors and willing to give all the necessary background and figures.

And as for the "schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors" - well - I call them: "Potential Customers"

Cheers!

Nitzan
You're right, business is business...so buy an ad or get out. You're running a for-profit business and panhandling in the SA Forums.
Sorry - too late to go out. we are too deep in it :)

 

left hook

Super Anarchist
7,473
5
I've been pretty vocal about my disgust for this plan in the other forum, but since Nitzan seems to keep pressing the SA community for money, free advertising and ideas I think she needs to be a little more open with us.

Publish your plan or at least some sort of pitch book, let your potential "investors" know what they can expect to receive in exchange for their hard earned money. Is our support considered a donation? or an investment? Where else are you marketing this idea? As of right now you have raised $474.00 of the $100,000.00 needed. How much of that $474 is your own money?

I don't know why anyone would want to sail in NY Harbor when there are so many better options nearby, but I'm sure you'll find some schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors.
Rum Line - I apologize I am not going to share the detailed business plan in a public forum. Business is business :)

If you have a business interest or if you are serious about considering investing in this venture - you are more than welcome to send me a private email and I'll respond. I hope you understand. As I wrote before - the Indiegogo campaign is a marketing and fundraising tool called "Crowd-funding" and is not my main fundraiser. For that I am looking for serious investors and willing to give all the necessary background and figures.

And as for the "schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors" - well - I call them: "Potential Customers"

Cheers!

Nitzan
You're right, business is business...so buy an ad or get out. You're running a for-profit business and panhandling in the SA Forums.
Sorry - too late to go out. we are too deep in it :)
Wrong. There's plenty of opportunity to pay the Editor for the time you've spent "crowdsourcing" here in the past and for all the time you plan to continue to fundraise in the same manner.

 

Sailors NYC

Member
50
0
NYC
I've been pretty vocal about my disgust for this plan in the other forum, but since Nitzan seems to keep pressing the SA community for money, free advertising and ideas I think she needs to be a little more open with us.

Publish your plan or at least some sort of pitch book, let your potential "investors" know what they can expect to receive in exchange for their hard earned money. Is our support considered a donation? or an investment? Where else are you marketing this idea? As of right now you have raised $474.00 of the $100,000.00 needed. How much of that $474 is your own money?

I don't know why anyone would want to sail in NY Harbor when there are so many better options nearby, but I'm sure you'll find some schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors.
Rum Line - I apologize I am not going to share the detailed business plan in a public forum. Business is business :)

If you have a business interest or if you are serious about considering investing in this venture - you are more than welcome to send me a private email and I'll respond. I hope you understand. As I wrote before - the Indiegogo campaign is a marketing and fundraising tool called "Crowd-funding" and is not my main fundraiser. For that I am looking for serious investors and willing to give all the necessary background and figures.

And as for the "schmucks who wants to slap a toilet bowl lifejacket around their necks and call themselves sailors" - well - I call them: "Potential Customers"

Cheers!

Nitzan
Additionally, after reading through your "crowd-funding" campaign it appears that these are in fact donations and not investments. There is no equity in this venture, you're simply handing your money over to this for-profit venture in exchange for a thank you note over Twitter from an account that has 80 followers at the moment. That's if you support them with under $100. For $100 you get a keychain, for $500 you get a hat, for $1000 you get a 2 hour harbor cruise for 6 people on one of the borrowed J/105s and for $5,000 you get the hat, the keychain and dinner at a restaurant TBA.

Crowd-funding campaigns are great when they're used for charity, but they become increasingly sketchy when used to fund a new business. What you're doing here is more or less a scam. What happens if this whole project falls apart? Did I just give you $5,000 for dinner at some random restaurant? Sure I got the bottle opener and the hat, but I've got piles of that stuff for free from regattas.
This is the beauty of the global village. People are sharing all sort of things and support all sort of causes based on their personal passions, emotions and desires, not always in order to get something in return. I am not pretentious and all the information is out there. I am using a legitimate tool for promoting my own business, correct, not giving any tax exempt to anyone by doing that. but in the past year I learned there are so many people who would love to have the option of sailing on the Hudson, and that the current options were just not what they were looking for. These people are passionate about sailing as much as SAs are, however they don't have the money to buy their own boat at this point of their lives because they are building their career, they are busy living the NYC hectic lifestyle, have a family, a mortgage etc. etc. Are you telling me these people don't have the right to sail? are you telling me that it is wrong to sell services to these people? It's their choice and this shouldn't bother you, as this has nothing to do with you. I am not demanding your money, not forcing you to support my venture or even spend the time to correspond with me. You are free to do as you wish, and me too. My only "sin" is that I am giving a shoutout for all sailors residing in the are, more or less experienced, who wish to hone their craft without having to buy a boat. In that case - I am happy to be guilty as charged :)

 

Lee G

Super Anarchist
3,323
0
Buying an ad is just the cost of doing business.
Exactly. Someone has to pay for the servers, bandwidth, software, site maintenance, etc, etc so you can spout your drivel on here.

BUY A FUCKING AD.

 




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