Supporting a new sailing community venture in the NYC Metro Area

Calogero

New member
7
0
I do give her credit for being a fantastic bullshit artist and grandstander.
From the sounds of what #6 has to say about you, you are also a bullshitter and a grandstander. I guess then, it's only right for you to be able to give credit where credit is due.

 

PurpleOnion

Anarchist
891
331
New York, NY
Are you telling me these people don't have the right to sail? are you telling me that it is wrong to sell services to these people? It's their choice and this shouldn't bother you, as this has nothing to do with you. I am not demanding your money, not forcing you to support my venture or even spend the time to correspond with me. You are free to do as you wish, and me too. My only "sin" is that I am giving a shoutout for all sailors residing in the are, more or less experienced, who wish to hone their craft without having to buy a boat. In that case - I am happy to be guilty as charged :)
I can't tell if you are intentionally or unintentionally being obtuse. Nobody is arguing about people's rights or your goal of selling to people. I can't figure out where you got that idea or even the idea that anybody has a right to sail.

What people are suggesting in an increasingly blunt way is that you are abusing a public forum to solicit what someone suggested were donations for your personal interest project and business. You are doing so without the courtesy of buying an ad on the site which you are using to promote your business. This, of course is not illegal, but several members of the site have indicated that the large majority of the members here consider that ethically questionable. I'm not sure it's wise to upset the membership here as they have a tendency to react rather strongly.

If the above was too much, let me sum it up by saying that it is very bad Karma to exploit a resource for your own personal gain.

 
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Somebody Else

a person of little consequence
7,679
845
PNW
I think J/105 is a great boat for this sort of bumper-boat enterprise. There's certainly enough of them around to fill demand, they are basically under-canvassed so accidents involving controlling a powerful boat are minimized, a lot of friends can sit around the cockpit, sail handling is pretty simple and they seem to be able to withstand a fair amount of bumping into each other.

I suggest some serious thought to drink-holders. My experience with newbies is that the whole heeling/spill-prevention thing is not understood very well.

The question was raised in the other thread: "[give] us some idea of how you plan to replace the sails once you destroy them." Racing sails used for casual day-sails by doofus renters will quickly turn competitive sails into uncompetitive sails. The equity holders would not be pleased with this. But I guess if one were to offer ones boat for this sort of endeavor, one would have most likely already resigned to bottom-half-of-the-fleet finishes if they even raced at all.

I think it's in poor taste to try for free advertising in a public forum.

I think it shows poor judgement to try for it in this specific forum.

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,600
a 40 minute trek is fine for weekend sailing, but wadda' 'bout weekDAYS ?

Young Manhattanites go out every night of the week - so why not sailing ?
Personally, I find ways to flee the office on Wednesday nights in time to get a train to Long Island and be on the dock by 6 to race. If work is slow I can get some Thursday beercans in there, too. Sounds a couple of my other fellow city dwellers above do the same thing up to Westchester and CT.

If I had the option of sailing after work around here on weekdays, I'd take it, but that's already available through MSC, which I'm considering to supplement my suburban sailing this summer (and I'm not easily creeped out so I should be OK there). What I don't understand about what's being proposed in the video is...what exactly will this be? Four J-105s, with how many members who are all competing for boatspace to do everything from racing to cocktail drinking to cruising? At best you can only do two of those three at any one time, and how many members are they planning to have sharing these four boats with all these conflicting aims?
Sorry but this is not the place to share the details of the business operation. But just to give you an idea - Every sailing club that has boats have a certain ratio of members/boats. In my research I found that number and I can assure you there'll be enough sailing time for everyone :)

Feel free to contact me personally for more details.

Cheers!
What_the_fuck?

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,600
Taking donations for a business is not only sketchy, it is very possibly illegal. Without a contract, you are putting yourself in jeopardy. And you look like a real charlatan. Either do it as a bona fide business, with investors duly and properly with ownership rights and filed with the appropriate agencies, or do it as a private club.

But to use charity fundraising for a business is just fucking poor form.

And to expect people to give money to you -- while soliciting them in public -- without giving business details in public --well, that is ridiculous.

 
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PurpleOnion

Anarchist
891
331
New York, NY
New Opportunity!!

Donate money to my business. In return, I may send you some trinkets. I'm not a registered charity and you won't be able to deduct the donation from your taxes. Rest assured that your money will go to a good cause. It will help me make money for myself and possibly some of the mystery investors who might see a return (even though you won't). Don't be fooled by people who say that I'm just in it for myself. I'm doing this for the community. Of course I'm going to make money off of the community and you won't receive any return on your donation/investment. Don't let that fool you. This is all about the community and not my personal profit. There's a double secret business plan, but since you're a donor and not an investor, you shouldn't need to see it. After all, it's not your business. It's mine.

You may have already figured out part of my business plan. That's the free use of social media and industry websites to raise awareness, solicit donations, and endear myself to the community.

In summary, stop donating to Toys for Tots. Stop donating to the Red Cross, Sandy victims or any of those other charities. They'll only use your money to help people in need, not enrich one individual. That's what the global village is all about, helping me make money and fulfill my dreams, not helping the less fortunate.

I should warn you that there's a very low probability of my success. However if I do succeed, you'll still get nothing other than the satisfaction of having helped me.

Please send your donations to our offices at:

2 Bloomfield St

New York, NY 10014

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2+Bloomfield+St.+new+york+ny&hl=en&ll=40.740323,-74.010247&spn=0.002038,0.002355&sll=40.71755,-73.966956&sspn=0.011531,0.01884&hnear=2+Bloomfield+St,+New+York,+10014&t=h&z=19

Keep in mind, every dollar that you give to established charities, food drives, or even homeless people is a dollar that won't help me get rich.

Thank you again for your support and the free use of this website.

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,283
10,107
Eastern NC
Y'know I thought this was a bit fishy when the OP referred to a website instead of simply explaining what's up

.... ...

This is the beauty of the global village. People are sharing all sort of things and support all sort of causes based on their personal passions, emotions and desires, not always in order to get something in return.
Wow! You're right, we should all 'crowdsource' our business capital from people who expect nothing in return. Much better than going to those tight-ass banks or all those boring financial issues.

Here is a group of people who are making sailing available to kids who otherwise would not have the chance to try it.

http://nbnjrotc-sail.blogspot.com/

Of course we also have an agenda of teaching some sense of responsibility, teamwork, even a little leadership... and since you can't bullshit the wind into getting you toward (much less through) the "Pipeline Drill" there is even some sense of teaching them a little earnest effort duly rewarded.

... These people are passionate about sailing as much as SAs are, however they don't have the money to buy their own boat at this point of their lives because they are building their career, they are busy living the NYC hectic lifestyle.

... ...
They could always move to the country.

FB- Doug

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,600
I know there are some people who look down on Yacht Clubs as being "elitist" or some other bs like that.

But here--here--in this very thread--we see why Yacht Clubs are *good* and why we have precious few commercial ventures outside of Brewer's Boatyards providing yachting infrastructure--and why Yacht Clubs (or "sailing clubs" for the reverse-snobbery Communists among us) reign supreme (and should do so).

Why the fuck would anyone want to support this?

Building a private incorporated club with bylaws and dues is far preferable to joining a commerical for-profit sailing skimming operation.

Oh! And I forgot to mention that "Liberty Yacht Club" in Philadelphia, which was founded more or less along the lines of Manhattan Yacht Club (in other words sort of a tennis club but with boats instead of courts) went into a failure (I believe since recovered) when the sleazy bastard in charge absconded with the funds.

 
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John Drake

Banned
12,078
0
Portmeirion
Well I guess we can add Sundari to the list of boats that will no longer have you along. That brings your 2012 total up to what, 6 boats that won't have you back in 2013?

Who's next wesley?

 
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RumLine

Anarchist
943
40
Western LIS
I completely agree, legitimate yacht clubs are non-profit organizations owned and run by the membership. Yacht clubs come in all shapes and sizes, from your hardcore sailing club with just a BBQ and a shack on the water to the full blown marina with restaurant and tennis courts. Each yacht club attracts their own clientele and while people here tend to criticize the ritzy clubs we can all recognize that they do serve a very good purpose...getting people out on the water and sailing. Yacht clubs promote learnt sail programs and host regional and national events for other sailors, often they host charity events to give something back to the community.

These for-profit ventures do none of that, they simply line the pockets of the scam artists who create them. This idea is not new, Nitzan is not solving a problem that NYC residents have, but rather creating a new problem. There are plenty of opportunities for people in Manhattan to sail, I work in Manhattan and still find a way to get out on the water most Friday nights sailing on other people's boats.

Anyone looking to "invest" in this idea is a fool.

I know there are some people who look down on Yacht Clubs as being "elitist" or some other bs like that.

But here--here--in this very thread--we see why Yacht Clubs are *good* and why we have precious few commercial ventures outside of Brewer's Boatyards providing yachting infrastructure--and why Yacht Clubs (or "sailing clubs" for the reverse-snobbery Communists among us) reign supreme (and should do so).

Why the fuck would anyone want to support this?

Building a private incorporated club with bylaws and dues is far preferable to joining a commerical for-profit sailing skimming operation.

Oh! And I forgot to mention that "Liberty Yacht Club" in Philadelphia, which was founded more or less along the lines of Manhattan Yacht Club (in other words sort of a tennis club but with boats instead of courts) went into a failure (I believe since recovered) when the sleazy bastard in charge absconded with the funds.
 

Snaggletooth

SA's Morrelle Compasse
34,732
5,869
I completely agree, legitimate yacht clubs are non-profit organizations owned and run by the membership. Yacht clubs come in all shapes and sizes, from your hardcore sailing club with just a BBQ and a shack on the water to the full blown marina with restaurant and tennis courts. Each yacht club attracts their own clientele and while people here tend to criticize the ritzy clubs we can all recognize that they do serve a very good purpose...getting people out on the water and sailing. Yacht clubs promote learnt sail programs and host regional and national events for other sailors, often they host charity events to give something back to the community.

These for-profit ventures do none of that, they simply line the pockets of the scam artists who create them. This idea is not new, Nitzan is not solving a problem that NYC residents have, but rather creating a new problem. There are plenty of opportunities for people in Manhattan to sail, I work in Manhattan and still find a way to get out on the water most Friday nights sailing on other people's boats.
plusse oune!!

Anyone looking to "invest" in this idea is a fool.
Timing is evreything, usulley the firset nvested mackes oute welle, ie ponzee. :)
 

Christian

Super Anarchist
I completely agree, legitimate yacht clubs are non-profit organizations owned and run by the membership. Yacht clubs come in all shapes and sizes, from your hardcore sailing club with just a BBQ and a shack on the water to the full blown marina with restaurant and tennis courts. Each yacht club attracts their own clientele and while people here tend to criticize the ritzy clubs we can all recognize that they do serve a very good purpose...getting people out on the water and sailing. Yacht clubs promote learnt sail programs and host regional and national events for other sailors, often they host charity events to give something back to the community.

These for-profit ventures do none of that, they simply line the pockets of the scam artists who create them. This idea is not new, Nitzan is not solving a problem that NYC residents have, but rather creating a new problem. There are plenty of opportunities for people in Manhattan to sail, I work in Manhattan and still find a way to get out on the water most Friday nights sailing on other people's boats.

Anyone looking to "invest" in this idea is a fool.

I know there are some people who look down on Yacht Clubs as being "elitist" or some other bs like that.

But here--here--in this very thread--we see why Yacht Clubs are *good* and why we have precious few commercial ventures outside of Brewer's Boatyards providing yachting infrastructure--and why Yacht Clubs (or "sailing clubs" for the reverse-snobbery Communists among us) reign supreme (and should do so).

Why the fuck would anyone want to support this?

Building a private incorporated club with bylaws and dues is far preferable to joining a commerical for-profit sailing skimming operation.

Oh! And I forgot to mention that "Liberty Yacht Club" in Philadelphia, which was founded more or less along the lines of Manhattan Yacht Club (in other words sort of a tennis club but with boats instead of courts) went into a failure (I believe since recovered) when the sleazy bastard in charge absconded with the funds.
Actually - the vast majority of YC's are for profit operations.

otherwise I fully agree with yoru post

 

RumLine

Anarchist
943
40
Western LIS
Actually - the vast majority of YC's are for profit operations.

otherwise I fully agree with yoru post
Really?

How do you come to this conclusion?
I'm also confused, I'm pretty confident that the majority of yacht clubs are classified as private foundations by the IRS and file as "All organizations except 501©(3)." This would make them tax exempt, but would not qualify your dues or other payments as charitable donations.

Here's some quick research I did:

http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/837873/St-Francis-Yacht-Club

http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/58914/Edgartown-Yacht-Club-Inc

http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/3911/American-Yacht-Club

http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/60884/Larchmont-Yacht-Club

http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/1067267/Southern-Yacht-Club

http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/394873/Bayview-Yacht-Club-Foot-of-Clairpointe

http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/59203/Boston-Yacht-Club

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,600
With the exception of the formerly Liberty Y.C. (Philadelphia--now Liberty Sailing Club and private), all the clubs I have been a member of or sailed from are certainly NOT for profit. I doubt that the "majority" are for profit. Preposterous.

NYYC

Eastern?

GIYS?

San Francisco YC?

Riverton?

Egg Harbor YC?

Larchmont?

Just a few of the many I have sailed through over the years. I really don't see how any of these are for profit. And they are quite typical in cross section, from full service high end down to all volunteer, from big boat down to dinghy. I'd be surprised if any on this short list--or the much longer list they sample--are for profit.

 
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