- Banned
- #61
From the sounds of what #6 has to say about you, you are also a bullshitter and a grandstander. I guess then, it's only right for you to be able to give credit where credit is due.
Supporting a new sailing community venture in the NYC Metro Area
- Thread starter Sailors NYC
- Start date
PurpleOnion
Anarchist
I can't tell if you are intentionally or unintentionally being obtuse. Nobody is arguing about people's rights or your goal of selling to people. I can't figure out where you got that idea or even the idea that anybody has a right to sail.Are you telling me these people don't have the right to sail? are you telling me that it is wrong to sell services to these people? It's their choice and this shouldn't bother you, as this has nothing to do with you. I am not demanding your money, not forcing you to support my venture or even spend the time to correspond with me. You are free to do as you wish, and me too. My only "sin" is that I am giving a shoutout for all sailors residing in the are, more or less experienced, who wish to hone their craft without having to buy a boat. In that case - I am happy to be guilty as charged
What people are suggesting in an increasingly blunt way is that you are abusing a public forum to solicit what someone suggested were donations for your personal interest project and business. You are doing so without the courtesy of buying an ad on the site which you are using to promote your business. This, of course is not illegal, but several members of the site have indicated that the large majority of the members here consider that ethically questionable. I'm not sure it's wise to upset the membership here as they have a tendency to react rather strongly.
If the above was too much, let me sum it up by saying that it is very bad Karma to exploit a resource for your own personal gain.
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jww
Member
Priceless Left Hook! Glass house be damned!
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Somebody Else
a person of little consequence
I think J/105 is a great boat for this sort of bumper-boat enterprise. There's certainly enough of them around to fill demand, they are basically under-canvassed so accidents involving controlling a powerful boat are minimized, a lot of friends can sit around the cockpit, sail handling is pretty simple and they seem to be able to withstand a fair amount of bumping into each other.
I suggest some serious thought to drink-holders. My experience with newbies is that the whole heeling/spill-prevention thing is not understood very well.
The question was raised in the other thread: "[give] us some idea of how you plan to replace the sails once you destroy them." Racing sails used for casual day-sails by doofus renters will quickly turn competitive sails into uncompetitive sails. The equity holders would not be pleased with this. But I guess if one were to offer ones boat for this sort of endeavor, one would have most likely already resigned to bottom-half-of-the-fleet finishes if they even raced at all.
I think it's in poor taste to try for free advertising in a public forum.
I think it shows poor judgement to try for it in this specific forum.
I suggest some serious thought to drink-holders. My experience with newbies is that the whole heeling/spill-prevention thing is not understood very well.
The question was raised in the other thread: "[give] us some idea of how you plan to replace the sails once you destroy them." Racing sails used for casual day-sails by doofus renters will quickly turn competitive sails into uncompetitive sails. The equity holders would not be pleased with this. But I guess if one were to offer ones boat for this sort of endeavor, one would have most likely already resigned to bottom-half-of-the-fleet finishes if they even raced at all.
I think it's in poor taste to try for free advertising in a public forum.
I think it shows poor judgement to try for it in this specific forum.
fastyacht
Super Anarchist
- 12,928
- 2,600
What_the_fuck?Sorry but this is not the place to share the details of the business operation. But just to give you an idea - Every sailing club that has boats have a certain ratio of members/boats. In my research I found that number and I can assure you there'll be enough sailing time for everyone
Feel free to contact me personally for more details.
Cheers!
fastyacht
Super Anarchist
- 12,928
- 2,600
Taking donations for a business is not only sketchy, it is very possibly illegal. Without a contract, you are putting yourself in jeopardy. And you look like a real charlatan. Either do it as a bona fide business, with investors duly and properly with ownership rights and filed with the appropriate agencies, or do it as a private club.
But to use charity fundraising for a business is just fucking poor form.
And to expect people to give money to you -- while soliciting them in public -- without giving business details in public --well, that is ridiculous.
But to use charity fundraising for a business is just fucking poor form.
And to expect people to give money to you -- while soliciting them in public -- without giving business details in public --well, that is ridiculous.
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PurpleOnion
Anarchist
New Opportunity!!
Donate money to my business. In return, I may send you some trinkets. I'm not a registered charity and you won't be able to deduct the donation from your taxes. Rest assured that your money will go to a good cause. It will help me make money for myself and possibly some of the mystery investors who might see a return (even though you won't). Don't be fooled by people who say that I'm just in it for myself. I'm doing this for the community. Of course I'm going to make money off of the community and you won't receive any return on your donation/investment. Don't let that fool you. This is all about the community and not my personal profit. There's a double secret business plan, but since you're a donor and not an investor, you shouldn't need to see it. After all, it's not your business. It's mine.
You may have already figured out part of my business plan. That's the free use of social media and industry websites to raise awareness, solicit donations, and endear myself to the community.
In summary, stop donating to Toys for Tots. Stop donating to the Red Cross, Sandy victims or any of those other charities. They'll only use your money to help people in need, not enrich one individual. That's what the global village is all about, helping me make money and fulfill my dreams, not helping the less fortunate.
I should warn you that there's a very low probability of my success. However if I do succeed, you'll still get nothing other than the satisfaction of having helped me.
Please send your donations to our offices at:
2 Bloomfield St
New York, NY 10014
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2+Bloomfield+St.+new+york+ny&hl=en&ll=40.740323,-74.010247&spn=0.002038,0.002355&sll=40.71755,-73.966956&sspn=0.011531,0.01884&hnear=2+Bloomfield+St,+New+York,+10014&t=h&z=19
Keep in mind, every dollar that you give to established charities, food drives, or even homeless people is a dollar that won't help me get rich.
Thank you again for your support and the free use of this website.
Donate money to my business. In return, I may send you some trinkets. I'm not a registered charity and you won't be able to deduct the donation from your taxes. Rest assured that your money will go to a good cause. It will help me make money for myself and possibly some of the mystery investors who might see a return (even though you won't). Don't be fooled by people who say that I'm just in it for myself. I'm doing this for the community. Of course I'm going to make money off of the community and you won't receive any return on your donation/investment. Don't let that fool you. This is all about the community and not my personal profit. There's a double secret business plan, but since you're a donor and not an investor, you shouldn't need to see it. After all, it's not your business. It's mine.
You may have already figured out part of my business plan. That's the free use of social media and industry websites to raise awareness, solicit donations, and endear myself to the community.
In summary, stop donating to Toys for Tots. Stop donating to the Red Cross, Sandy victims or any of those other charities. They'll only use your money to help people in need, not enrich one individual. That's what the global village is all about, helping me make money and fulfill my dreams, not helping the less fortunate.
I should warn you that there's a very low probability of my success. However if I do succeed, you'll still get nothing other than the satisfaction of having helped me.
Please send your donations to our offices at:
2 Bloomfield St
New York, NY 10014
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=2+Bloomfield+St.+new+york+ny&hl=en&ll=40.740323,-74.010247&spn=0.002038,0.002355&sll=40.71755,-73.966956&sspn=0.011531,0.01884&hnear=2+Bloomfield+St,+New+York,+10014&t=h&z=19
Keep in mind, every dollar that you give to established charities, food drives, or even homeless people is a dollar that won't help me get rich.
Thank you again for your support and the free use of this website.
bodega87
Anarchist
Fucking quote of the year. Maybe the decade, right here folks. I can hear wes' glass house shattering as I type.
Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
Y'know I thought this was a bit fishy when the OP referred to a website instead of simply explaining what's up
Here is a group of people who are making sailing available to kids who otherwise would not have the chance to try it.
http://nbnjrotc-sail.blogspot.com/
Of course we also have an agenda of teaching some sense of responsibility, teamwork, even a little leadership... and since you can't bullshit the wind into getting you toward (much less through) the "Pipeline Drill" there is even some sense of teaching them a little earnest effort duly rewarded.
FB- Doug
Wow! You're right, we should all 'crowdsource' our business capital from people who expect nothing in return. Much better than going to those tight-ass banks or all those boring financial issues.
Here is a group of people who are making sailing available to kids who otherwise would not have the chance to try it.
http://nbnjrotc-sail.blogspot.com/
Of course we also have an agenda of teaching some sense of responsibility, teamwork, even a little leadership... and since you can't bullshit the wind into getting you toward (much less through) the "Pipeline Drill" there is even some sense of teaching them a little earnest effort duly rewarded.
They could always move to the country.
FB- Doug
fastyacht
Super Anarchist
- 12,928
- 2,600
I know there are some people who look down on Yacht Clubs as being "elitist" or some other bs like that.
But here--here--in this very thread--we see why Yacht Clubs are *good* and why we have precious few commercial ventures outside of Brewer's Boatyards providing yachting infrastructure--and why Yacht Clubs (or "sailing clubs" for the reverse-snobbery Communists among us) reign supreme (and should do so).
Why the fuck would anyone want to support this?
Building a private incorporated club with bylaws and dues is far preferable to joining a commerical for-profit sailing skimming operation.
Oh! And I forgot to mention that "Liberty Yacht Club" in Philadelphia, which was founded more or less along the lines of Manhattan Yacht Club (in other words sort of a tennis club but with boats instead of courts) went into a failure (I believe since recovered) when the sleazy bastard in charge absconded with the funds.
But here--here--in this very thread--we see why Yacht Clubs are *good* and why we have precious few commercial ventures outside of Brewer's Boatyards providing yachting infrastructure--and why Yacht Clubs (or "sailing clubs" for the reverse-snobbery Communists among us) reign supreme (and should do so).
Why the fuck would anyone want to support this?
Building a private incorporated club with bylaws and dues is far preferable to joining a commerical for-profit sailing skimming operation.
Oh! And I forgot to mention that "Liberty Yacht Club" in Philadelphia, which was founded more or less along the lines of Manhattan Yacht Club (in other words sort of a tennis club but with boats instead of courts) went into a failure (I believe since recovered) when the sleazy bastard in charge absconded with the funds.
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John Drake
Banned
- Banned
- #72
Well I guess we can add Sundari to the list of boats that will no longer have you along. That brings your 2012 total up to what, 6 boats that won't have you back in 2013?
Who's next wesley?
Who's next wesley?
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Jkdubz808
Megatron
I need more popcorn.......this is a great thread to follow.
Keep pushing Sail NYC, this is entertaining.
Keep pushing Sail NYC, this is entertaining.
RumLine
Anarchist
I completely agree, legitimate yacht clubs are non-profit organizations owned and run by the membership. Yacht clubs come in all shapes and sizes, from your hardcore sailing club with just a BBQ and a shack on the water to the full blown marina with restaurant and tennis courts. Each yacht club attracts their own clientele and while people here tend to criticize the ritzy clubs we can all recognize that they do serve a very good purpose...getting people out on the water and sailing. Yacht clubs promote learnt sail programs and host regional and national events for other sailors, often they host charity events to give something back to the community.
These for-profit ventures do none of that, they simply line the pockets of the scam artists who create them. This idea is not new, Nitzan is not solving a problem that NYC residents have, but rather creating a new problem. There are plenty of opportunities for people in Manhattan to sail, I work in Manhattan and still find a way to get out on the water most Friday nights sailing on other people's boats.
Anyone looking to "invest" in this idea is a fool.
These for-profit ventures do none of that, they simply line the pockets of the scam artists who create them. This idea is not new, Nitzan is not solving a problem that NYC residents have, but rather creating a new problem. There are plenty of opportunities for people in Manhattan to sail, I work in Manhattan and still find a way to get out on the water most Friday nights sailing on other people's boats.
Anyone looking to "invest" in this idea is a fool.
PurpleOnion
Anarchist
Possibly, but among the many missing items in the $100k budget was advertising.Just Dug said:
Snaggletooth
SA's Morrelle Compasse
- 34,732
- 5,869
plusse oune!!
Timing is evreything, usulley the firset nvested mackes oute welle, ie ponzee.
Christian
Super Anarchist
Actually - the vast majority of YC's are for profit operations.
otherwise I fully agree with yoru post
RumLine
Anarchist
I'm also confused, I'm pretty confident that the majority of yacht clubs are classified as private foundations by the IRS and file as "All organizations except 501©(3)." This would make them tax exempt, but would not qualify your dues or other payments as charitable donations.
Here's some quick research I did:
http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/837873/St-Francis-Yacht-Club
http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/58914/Edgartown-Yacht-Club-Inc
http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/3911/American-Yacht-Club
http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/60884/Larchmont-Yacht-Club
http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/1067267/Southern-Yacht-Club
http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/394873/Bayview-Yacht-Club-Foot-of-Clairpointe
http://non-profit-organizations.findthebest.com/l/59203/Boston-Yacht-Club
fastyacht
Super Anarchist
- 12,928
- 2,600
With the exception of the formerly Liberty Y.C. (Philadelphia--now Liberty Sailing Club and private), all the clubs I have been a member of or sailed from are certainly NOT for profit. I doubt that the "majority" are for profit. Preposterous.
NYYC
Eastern?
GIYS?
San Francisco YC?
Riverton?
Egg Harbor YC?
Larchmont?
Just a few of the many I have sailed through over the years. I really don't see how any of these are for profit. And they are quite typical in cross section, from full service high end down to all volunteer, from big boat down to dinghy. I'd be surprised if any on this short list--or the much longer list they sample--are for profit.
NYYC
Eastern?
GIYS?
San Francisco YC?
Riverton?
Egg Harbor YC?
Larchmont?
Just a few of the many I have sailed through over the years. I really don't see how any of these are for profit. And they are quite typical in cross section, from full service high end down to all volunteer, from big boat down to dinghy. I'd be surprised if any on this short list--or the much longer list they sample--are for profit.
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