SV Seeker

epoxypete

Member
251
136
He poured a certified metric shit ton of lead into the keels (that have a large "bulb").

My armchair guess is that stability will be similar to many successful motorsailer type vessels.

Keeping the water out of his hull ports (when heeled) will be the thing to watch out for.


What a thrill watching all that lead being melted inside the boat with a minimal amount of protective clothing from lead splatters and....ahem....no safety masks to protect against breathing the lead fumes. Perhaps Captain Crunch is suffering from the long and slow effects of lead poisoning?
It will also be terribly thrilling to see all sails set, a pleasant 15 knot breeze and the boat barely making headway against 2 foot "ocean swells" or 3 foot"rogue waves" as it heals beyond the point where some serious down flooding may begin. The quoted terms are just how Captain Crunch might describe otherwise glorious sailing conditions for a real sailing vessel instead of that steel tub-o-junk.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,437
3,510
Tasmania, Australia
Panope is a tender boat. Probably more tender than any body else's boat in this forum (Main is reefed at 12 knots). Here are the numbers/reasons:

Low(ish) ballast ratio - 32%
Shallow Draft - 4'
Narrow WL beam - 9'
Deep Vee hull Section (buoyancy where you do not want it)
Wheel house addition (500 pounds of weight where you do not want it)
Fuel stored above WL (gonna change that soon)
Center of effort 1.5 feet above the Design Sail Plan

All of the above is screaming TENDER.

Yeah my Colvin hull is tender, too. AVS is fine though, I did an inclining test with the as-built fully rigged boat including full water tanks and 200 litres of fuel.

FWIW I used frame spaces 11 through to 14 in the keel for fuel tanks. Tom had them as void space. Now this keeps the fuel nice & low but it also costs buoyancy aft which was a bit of a hassle seeing as I also added a heavier engine. The trim is fine now, but did take some moving of lead blocks forward to get there. Boat floats on its DWL.

And we reef early.

Dunno what's going to happen when Doug tries to sail that thing but the running rigging looks really fucked to my eye.

FKT
 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
14,124
3,668
Is it really drifting away or just wandering all over the anchorage with its twin anchors set and too much scope?
Pete, scope has not gained any meaning to Doug yet. I think he may have 80' out and that is mostly chain. He put a second anchor out when a cold front came through last week. I think that the NW winds from the cold front passages have progressively pushed the Seeker to the SE since he first dropped anchor upon arrival from Dauphine Is. He is still a long way north of the ICW and probably far enough away from all those nice homes on either side of Pirates Cove to keep them from dropping a dime on him. I don't think those folks would do such a thing, after all this is not West Palm Beach.
 

epoxypete

Member
251
136
Pete, scope has not gained any meaning to Doug yet. I think he may have 80' out and that is mostly chain. He put a second anchor out when a cold front came through last week. I think that the NW winds from the cold front passages have progressively pushed the Seeker to the SE since he first dropped anchor upon arrival from Dauphine Is. He is still a long way north of the ICW and probably far enough away from all those nice homes on either side of Pirates Cove to keep them from dropping a dime on him. I don't think those folks would do such a thing, after all this is not West Palm Beach.
Thanks for local knowledge,Rasper. The surrounding topography appears relatively flat, hence he might not get much shelter from winds,per se, thus dragging his sorry ass around that small cove. He does however appear protected enough from any serious wave action coming up from the Gulf, short of a hurricane.
Which way do the prevailing winds blow there, south westerly? Just looking at Google earth now and that elbow he is in. It appears to harbour some sneaky sandy shoals which would be interesting to see him attempting to actually sail his POS out and past them.
 

epoxypete

Member
251
136
i don't think he has enough rode to have too much scope
Could be. He has something like 80 odd feet of chain out on two anchors already and that anchor drum still has lots of poly on it. Although as Rasputin22 mentioned,"scope has not gained any meaning to Doug yet". I am wholeheartedly inclined to agree with this statement.
 

Sail4beer

Usual suspect
10,428
3,713
Toms River,NJ
My dog got the Turkey off the counter and nailed it like the dogs in Christmas Story while Mom was out pulling a smoke. The 8 of us could take a Thanksgiving dinner in 18 minutes. The dog did it in 5. We enjoyed the stuffing and other trimmings…

Scope is beyond Doug’s scope.
 

Munz

Member
58
37
Why don't you tell us?

After all it was your claim.
Not really relevant, my point was it's not long (20-30 years by most estimates) before it becomes more economical to replace a steel vessel rather than to continue trying to maintain it (ice class and other specialized vessels obviously have a slightly different calculus as they are more expensive to replace, and the navy generally doesn't do "economical" at all on principe). Of course corrosion isn't the only culprit, but it's been a significant one, at least to date....
Data point: I used to work aboard a 30 year old steel boat. It was an icebreaker which is about as hard duty you can get outside a ship that's actually being shot at.

I know of a 100 year old steel yacht local to me. And another one built in 1948. And I just looked at a steel ex fishing vessel built in 1960. I'll leave you to do the simple subtraction needed to work out their current age.
You do understand the difference between a "data point" and "datax right? You're cherry-picking outliers...
I've been on a steel boat that was over 100 years old, or I could link an article about a cruise ship that will be scrapped before even go into service, but what's the point? They're both outlines, and trying to use either example as evidence of the longevity of steel boats under typical circumstances would only serve to prove that I'm an argumentative c*nt with poor reading comprehension skills

Basically your statement is bullshit,
What statement? "Salt water is a corrosive environment?" I stand by it....

you can't back it up and even using weasel words like 'average economic working life' doesn't cut it.

FKT
It's a pretty simple concept really, not really rocket science butif you want to stick a tail on it and call it a weasel knock yourself out! 🤣🤣
 
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TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
Munz, it seems to me that the economic life of a steel vessel may vary significantly by type of vessel, and by other factors such as climate and ownership structures.

For example, ferries often have quite a long life, but bulk carriers seem to have sort lives.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,437
3,510
Tasmania, Australia
Not really relevant, my point was it's not long (20-30 years by most estimates) before it becomes more economical to replace a steel vessel rather than to continue trying to maintain it (ice class and other specialized vessels obviously have a slightly different calculus as they are more expensive to replace, and the navy generally doesn't do "economical" at all on principe). Of course corrosion isn't the only culprit, but it's been a significant one, at least to date....

And this applies to recreational leisure craft in exactly what manner? Which, in case you've forgotten, was part of the original discussion.

You made the original statement, that's the one I called as bullshit. Steel boats have at least as long a life as any other material if properly cared for. In the commercial world I'd say it was usually the systems that reach the obsolescent/uneconomic to repair point long before the hull. To make your point, you'd have to show that steel ships were being scrapped due to rust/hull failure rather than systems obsolescence. But you won't. You'll try to distract.

As for knowing the difference between anecdote & data - you've yet to provide any so my anecdotes trump your (lack of) data.

Whatever. I predict that SV Seeker meets its end a LONG time before rust eats its hull, so the fact that steel - IF UNPROTECTED - corrodes in a marine environment is irrelevant.

Here's a stunning fact for you to ponder.

Timber ROTS and boring organisms like teredo and gribble EAT it in many marine environments. Oh woe, nobody should ever build a timber boat. It just won't last.

Yet somehow they do...

FKT
 

Sail4beer

Usual suspect
10,428
3,713
Toms River,NJ
Hell, my timber boat is 73 yo and luckily those worms haven’t gotten it yet. The salt water in the shallow bilges and the steel floors supporting the cabin sole, not such good luck. They will need the skills of a good welder. Anything you put in the oceans will be a maintenance problem looking for constant solutions. Doug is about to learn that lesson.
 
Munz, it seems to me that the economic life of a steel vessel may vary significantly by type of vessel, and by other factors such as climate and ownership structures.

For example, ferries often have quite a long life, but bulk carriers seem to have sort lives.
I would also say that size of said vessel is quite large part of that equation. It is much cheaper to slip small boat every few years to change anodes and paint hull. Keeps it much cheaper than building a new one every 30 years. Even heavily used vessels like steelhulled fishing boats seem to have pretty long service life.
 

George Graves

Member
141
83
In an interesting turn of events, the moderator over at Reddit for the sub r/svseeker, who was always a fan of Doug, decided to turn the sub over to Doug and Betsy.

(not his actual picture - just a Ai generated image of a typical reddit mod)
Screenshot 2022-12-06 070827.jpg
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
In an interesting turn of events, the moderator over at Reddit for the sub r/svseeker, who was always a fan of Doug, decided to turn the sub over to Doug and Betsy.
That sounds like a great move. Letting Doug censor the comments has gotta be a great way to make the boat less unstable, more structurally sound, and its skipper more clueful.

Obviously, if people can't describe the problems, then the problems won't exist. Just obviously.
 

Crump's Brother

Anarchist
840
137
C.TEX.USA

Copied from r/SVSeeker_Free today, credit to the members over there:


'Will it Sail Tuesday #3' 12/6/2022, Seeker Sailing Polar Edition!​

renderTimingPixel.png

In this weekly Tuesday edition of 'When will it sail' I have taken an in depth analysis of Seekers stability curves and added them into my VPP and graphed the resulting polar. For the non-sailors here VPP is an acronym for Velocity Prediction Program, a numerical computer generated set of numbers that predict the speed of a vessel in a given amount of wind.
In the case of Seeker for this VPP model, I have assumed Seeker under full sail in wind of 20 knots. Again, for the non-sailors here, 20 knots is ideal for making good headway across seas for the vast majority of sailboats under full sail.

But in Seekers case, in 20kts of wind, she will rapidly accelerate to 3kts at 86 degrees into the wind (yes, Seeker WILL go upwind!), followed by an immediate capsize should she turn downwind at any point. This 'capsize zone' takes into consideration such design bonuses and the water trapping scuppers, movable lead bar ballast, 22 turn helm, light pole masts, aluminum battens, and the overall crew and captain's panic as Seeker heels past 50 degrees and doesn't stop.

Once off the wind past 125 degrees, Seeker will once again rapidly accelerate to 3 knots until she gradually decelerates as the 'open bow' acts like a water scoop in waves over 2 feet. 'Dead downwind faster than the wind' never going to happen with Seeker!

1670358159540.png


Feeding all Seeker's specifications and design into my VPP program, (especially the pneumatically driven blackwater ejection system among hundreds of other anomalies alike) caused multiple errors. In one model run in particular, the VPP calculated the Propane Interior Storage System known as PISS, in which the Harbor Freight clickety strap broke when heel hit 34 degrees to starboard, releasing contents of said tank into the cargo hold. But as fate would have it, VPP also calculated no explosion due to total failure in all electrical and engine systems as a source of ignition.

Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed this edition of 'Will it Sail Tuesday' and stay tuned!

And to Doog and crew if you are following here, "Put up Seeker's Sails Y'all" or P.U.S.S.Y. for short!
 




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