SV Seeker

Bagheera

Bagheera

Member
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Alaska
For ships like the Pamir and the Concordia there are also very strict regulations when it comes to stability. Just looking at the 'stability test' that was referenced here a few pages ago, this BSO does not comply with those either. Add to that that there are no water tight windows and that the companion ways are sketchy at best and the BSO would never ever have gotten any certificate what so ever. Also, it is only 75 feet long, just 21m. Even if you stretch your imagination to the max, it still cannot be considered a 'ship'.

With modern regulations for sailboats, the minimum required angle of vanishing stability is also reduced as the boat gets bigger.
 
kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
28,040
5,857
Kent Island!
hdra said:
As I'm sure you're aware, Albatross was initially a very seaworthy design which was heavily modified by subsequent owners (changing rig, adding heavy boats above deck) without consulting a naval architect, which led to its loss. A sister ship which was not so modified (eye of the wind) is still sailing safely to this day.
Pamir was loaded with cargo in a way which was not consistent with how it had been designed nor how it had been loaded on most of its voyages - the grain was loose, rather than sacked, so it was able to shift significantly, which led to the loss.
Concordia had leeward watertight doors open and was on autopilot in an area with unsettled weather. The bridge watch wasn't sufficiently trained so tried bearing away under autopilot instead of turning it off and turning manually - wasn't ever knocked down, but because the pilot couldn't bear away, boat heeled enough that open watertight doors were submerged and the boat downloaded.
Not familiar with Gotland.
Pride of Baltimore (original) had unsecured deck openings too far off centerline and no watertight bulkheads in service to being a fully "traditional" design - also sunk by downloading like Concordia.
Have you read "Tall Ships Down"? If not, you should take a read - it goes into a lot of detail about the failure modes of some high profile big sailing ship sinkings, and the cascade of failures that lead there.

Doug's BSO is much more in the size class of a yacht than any of the above ships, and it appears to have scarier stability issues than all of the above except for possibly the Albatross.
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Albatross was not even a sailboat at first. She had the rig added later.
 
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epoxypete

Member
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175
hdra said:
As I'm sure you're aware, Albatross was initially a very seaworthy design which was heavily modified by subsequent owners (changing rig, adding heavy boats above deck) without consulting a naval architect, which led to its loss. A sister ship which was not so modified (eye of the wind) is still sailing safely to this day.
Pamir was loaded with cargo in a way which was not consistent with how it had been designed nor how it had been loaded on most of its voyages - the grain was loose, rather than sacked, so it was able to shift significantly, which led to the loss.
Concordia had leeward watertight doors open and was on autopilot in an area with unsettled weather. The bridge watch wasn't sufficiently trained so tried bearing away under autopilot instead of turning it off and turning manually - wasn't ever knocked down, but because the pilot couldn't bear away, boat heeled enough that open watertight doors were submerged and the boat downloaded.
Not familiar with Gotland.
Pride of Baltimore (original) had unsecured deck openings too far off centerline and no watertight bulkheads in service to being a fully "traditional" design - also sunk by downloading like Concordia.
Have you read "Tall Ships Down"? If not, you should take a read - it goes into a lot of detail about the failure modes of some high profile big sailing ship sinkings, and the cascade of failures that lead there.

Doug's BSO is much more in the size class of a yacht than any of the above ships, and it appears to have scarier stability issues than all of the above except for possibly the Albatross.
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Nice synopsis. Well done.
 
Lark

Lark

Supper Anarchist
9,852
1,905
Ohio
Zonker said:
From the report.... " a boat with rigid hull made of polyethylene was hanged on davits behind the stern transom."
.....
The wind blew from SW to W with variable strength of 2 – 5 [Beaufort]. The yacht had been initially powered by engine, however as the wind strength allowed sailing, 5 sails were raised: mainsail, main staysail, foresail, jib and flying jib, which made up for practically full set of sails for close hauled course (Figure 1). Sailing on the port tack, the yacht reached speeds from 2 to 3.5 knots."

Ha ha. Sounds familiar

There is a lot in the report that is estimated/guessed etc. I just skimmed it.

Really hard to apply it to BST Seeker except:

- narrow beam hull with bulwarks that didn't have enough freeing ports
Seeker has huge bulwarks (never noticed before) with very small freeing ports

View attachment 570320
I'm not sure where the height of the bow opening is; it would act to dump some water but because it's essentially on centerline still won't dump water trapped by the bulwarks when the boat is heeled

- yes the estimated GM of Seeker is lower. A 1m GM is basically OK in most cases

- the boat that sank didn't have a very watertight deckhouse either so limited buoyancy from the deckhouse when it was over on it's side. If your deckhouse isn't watertight, it becomes a liability as it floods and traps water on the low side.
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I’m self educated and surfing down the valley of despair. As I understand, initial stability has little value as heel exceeds five degrees or so. It predicts vessel motion, tendency to shake things lose, comfort but not necessarily safety. Any way you can guess a stability curve?

I noted HMS Captain had a metacentric height of 2.5 feet. It took months to capsize despite low freeboard. I can’t find one for Vasa. Bouvet was Initially stable (GM>1m) but righting moment was poor (GZmax <0.25m).
 
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Zonker

Zonker

Super Anarchist
10,609
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Canada
No you can't guess a stab curve except for very rough approximations. I.e. The AVS of most cats is around 90 degrees. Mono sailboats are anywhere from 100 to 140.

Narrow beam boats will have the peak much lower. I.e. Less energy to capsize in a dynamic situation.
 
opcn

opcn

Member
180
111
Anchorage, AK, USA
Secure.jpeg

Crockery secured. His plan is to put everything into the sink when he sails. Not quite sure how he intended to cook and eat underway while his sink is full.
 
tane

tane

Anarchist
995
301
Blitz said:
Krauts, any other derogatory terms you like use there Tane? Dipshit.
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Blitz said:
I kinda woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. It's really not a big deal to me. Just find the double standard interesting. Once had an HR person ask me why I don't like sauerkraut. I asked her if she would ask a black person who didn't like watermelon the same thing. She was speechless.
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I am "mountain-Kraut", so I may use the term, no?
Speaking of offending: might there be old Londoners around or Poles offended by your nick? Remember "London Blitz" & "Blitzkrieg"???

& while we are there (& to prevent to get your balls in more of a PC uproar):
friendly cross-border-ribbing is not unknown in other parts of the world too, no?
Here in Austria the word "Kraut" is used exclusively for cabbage, it is unknown as a derogatory term for our neighbours (we say "Piefke". Of course they have their derogatory term for us too: "gorge-crappers" -Schluchtenscheisser). All this is good naturedly used.
The anglophones came up with the derogatory use of the word "Kraut".
There are no double standards involved that I know of, most of the Germans look benevolently down at our little "operette nation" & we are mostly in awe of their thoroughness & exactitude (& their numbers, of course: 80 millions compared to our 8 millions "living in the forest" (as the GPOAT in his wisdom said...)
 
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epoxypete

Member
312
175
opcn said:
View attachment 570927
Crockery secured. His plan is to put everything into the sink when he sails. Not quite sure how he intended to cook and eat underway while his sink is full.
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"Crockery secured." ? Not really, it is just hanging up there and will take flight once the BSO begins rolling in a beam sea.....fuck!....what am I saying?! That BSO is never going to experience a beam sea worthy the name. There are so many unsecured bits of junk,scrap and parts littered throughout this BSO that going out to sea will be both dangerous for those on board and a tender mercy if she manages to take herself out without any loss of life.

The mechanical parts are questionably reliable and their operation too dependent on invented/made-up Duggsolutions that only Dugg has a chance of remembering how something was jigged up in the first place from big box store parts.
The BSO stability is in serious doubt and despite proven methods to getting a pretty good idea of this BSO stability, Dugg will not go that route,instead preferring the Duggdelusion that he knows better.
This BSO will always require crew since everything is simply too heavy and not properly set up to be handled by one person. Of course, Dugg continues to have daydreams of sailing the briny blue sea alone, but these may just be hallucinations brought about by breathing his own farts all night long inside his sleeping bag.

This BSO is woefully and shamefully under-canvased for its displacement and will constantly require the use of its engine to get anywhere not directly downwind.

Thus we come full circle back to questionable reliability of the mechanicals.....and a reasonable conclusion how this BSO is nothing more than one persons retirement home afloat. Not a research vessel, not an ocean voyager and certainly not a sailing vessel.
 
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epoxypete

Member
312
175
chester said:
being woefully undercanvassed is the only thing that might keep it right side up.
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Undoubtedly so! I like your careful placement of the word;"might". So much potential! However, this was more a dig at Duggs constant reaffirming that his BSO is a sailing vessel. I suppose we all may need a Duggdictionary to fully appreciate just what the pluperfect fuck he is talking about.
 
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epoxypete

Member
312
175



Just watched this latest bit of jackassery and it is growing clearer each time Dugg posts a video he is an utter douche! This is the guy who has spent 10+ years welding a steel boat together, often with volunteer help from experienced welders and despite his hayseed drawling verbal nonsense diarrhea, the douche in Dugg has yet to: a) master welding and b) develope an attention span greater than a worms.
 
F

fukupananvil

Member
227
123
epoxypete said:



Just watched this latest bit of jackassery and it is growing clearer each time Dugg posts a video he is an utter douche! This is the guy who has spent 10+ years welding a steel boat together, often with volunteer help from experienced welders and despite his hayseed drawling verbal nonsense diarrhea, the douche in Dugg has yet to: a) master welding and b) develope an attention span greater than a worms.
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15 years of construction of a sailing vessel, and just getting around to installing working hardware to hoist the mainsail. Feel the fear.
 
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