Switched to Electric
- Thread starter Kolibri
- Start date
Elegua
Generalissimo
Or, one is flexible about destinations. My son would do things like make us short tack against the current and wind up channels like Muscle Ridge, or up the St George. Makes me glad for a staysail with a decent sheeting angle and modest ambitions to get places.
Kolibri
Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #123
Quotes I got for motor only were $10,851 for a Volvo D1-20 and $9,222 for a Volvo D1-13. The Yanmar prices were a bit less for similar engine sizes, but I laughed and deleted that quote package when I saw the "earliest available installation date: August 1, 2022".
Ajax
Super Anarchist
Panoramix
Super Anarchist
Interesting, I had a quick google around and it seems that there is a smaller one (Volvo D1-13) which in the case of @Bull Citywould be a more like for like comparison.
It looks like they've stopped manufacturing single cylinders engines. These were popular on French racing boats in the 1980s/90s, i imagine a substantial amount of energy was lost in shaking the boat and its rig, plus with a feathering propeller that would not always "bite" immediately docking was definitely a bit of an art!
There's a big difference between who is manufacturing the cells vs. who is assembling cells into a completed battery with a BMS, enclosure, etc. Most prismatic cells (that I've seen) are manufactured by BYD, CALB, CATL, EVE, ECT, Gafeng, and Lichen. I could be wrong but I don't think they're made in the US. You can get smaller cylindrical (~40Ah) and custom shape cells in the US but not they're not cells you're using for a 100+Ah battery because it's not practical to monitor each individual cell.
Ajax
Super Anarchist
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
I wonder how that will work. that is, how much grunt to expect. I know that when I apply the brakes in my PHEV it gives back - but I guess maybe a 40% return on my "investment". Which seems pretty good really. But a prop, at an oblique angle, spinning a shaft might return less?
Here is the current state-of-the-art in hydrogeneration (as I understand it). they say it supplies 100W at 5 knots.
https://www.wattandsea.com/fr/hydrogenerateurs/cruising-300/
Ajax
Super Anarchist
I've been looking at those Watt&Sea units forever. I call it "Cruiser Porn."
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
so, the BMS can monitor each battery, or super-cell? I've got an offgrid/household system composed of 16 175ah 6V deep cycle lead acid batteries. for sure the BMS does not monitor these batteries separately. But I'm getting the impression that the more sophisticated Li BMS do.
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
this only looks like it's supposed to push the boat forward. in fact, it's just there to slow it down.
solosailor
Super Anarchist
Yes, a BMS systems monitors to the cell level allowing for more accurate low/high voltage cutoffs instead of the "total of the pack". It also allows for balancing of the cells when they get out of phase which is much more likely to happen if you take the pack down below 80% depth of discharge.
Monitoring and balancing of each individual cell on a LiFePO bank is critical for cell health and safety. An unmatched/unbalanced cell will exceed voltage limits far earlier than the bank as a whole and can lead to thermal runaway and excessive degradation. It is far more critical than a set of lead acid batteries which themselves are multiple 2V cells.
Yes you can do that - to a degree. The first one I posted (Grenville channel) is long enough that if daylight agrees with you and the tides are JUST right, you can ride the ebb north, it turns about half way and ride the flood out. There is an anchorage half way because most of the time daylight and the tides don't match up perfectly. The wind does tend to follow the topography too because it's all mountainous. So you are either running or motoring into it if you want to get somewhere.
You always are watching the tides/currents around here. Currents in these channels vary a lot. Some are only a few knots. Some are more.
This particular place (Seymour Narrows) -
cruise ships wait for slack tide. Smaller boats will ride it one way or another and then get out of the stream when it turns. But as you can see it's a longish channel. Fortunately good places to anchor along the way.
Yanmar still makes the 1GM10
hump101
Anarchist
Thanks all for this very interesting thread. My boat has just been crashed into by another boat that broke its moorings, so my refit has just been brought forward, and I am interested in an electric refit. This would be custom as my requirements are very specific, and the thoughts of others with some experience would be appreciated:
My boat is an old F40 catamaran. It currently has a 10hp (7.5kW) long shaft high torque outboard. This provides plenty of power (9kts is sufficient) but entrains air with any pitching motion. The boat sails well, so generally if there are waves then there is enough wind for this to not be an issue, except when we have waves in the mooring field. Then maneouvring between the other boats and picking up my mooring requires too much care and planning. The boat is moored so no shore power available.
My normal use case is 1km under power, including a lock gate, then sailing, then same again coming back. The primary aim of the refit is to set the boat up for single-handing. This involves adding a small central cabin to which all sail controls are brought, along with a water ballast system. This new cabin provides a mounting point for the new drive location that will be less prone to air entrainment, combined with deeper immersion.
Main problem is weight control. I can't include a large battery pack or a large generator, so my proposal is to have enough battery capacity to do my normal 2km, plus some reserve (so about 5km capability), which I think will require about 5kWh, allowing for reduced speed most of the time. Use this to feed two drive motors, one mounted forward, and one aft, each around 7.5kW, each with their own controllers. Both can rotate 360 for steering, and lift completely out of the water when sailing. This gives enough power, control and duration for close quarters maneouvring without the current issues.
If I need to run for longer, then one motor lifts up to the bridgedeck where it engages with a small petrol engine that spins it as a generator to charge the batteries and run the other motor, plus hotel loads as required. I think this will work for me because the only time I would need to motor for a long period would be when out at sea, and reduced speed and/or motor-sailing is fine at this time. I will use a lightweight engine that can drive the motor as a generator at above the 7.5kW nominal power (from initial calcs 10kW generation is possible with suitable sized/cooled components). I have read that the latest BEV's can regen at higher rates than they can recharge from a grid connection (800kW regen in the latest Porsche mule), so this is not as wild as it sounds.
The benefit of this arrangement for me is that my boat is moored at a location with regular tidal high current speeds, so on the mooring one or both can be left down to re-charge the system ready for the next trip. Similarly, when sailing they can be used to recharge. The boat is fast and powerful enough that the loss of performance will not be a problem if not racing. I will also cover the new cabin, hulls, etc., with as much PV as I can squeeze on.
My aim is to try and get this entire system to weigh less than 250kg, so about twice the current outboard plus mounts plus controllers plus fuel etc. I am saving weight elsewhere in the refit, but of course losing it all again with the cabin, so I don't have much to play with. I will be custom fabricating the drive housings, props, engine/prop interfaces, steering, etc., and buying motors, controllers, batteries and associated components.
Any thoughts appreciated. Apologies for the long post.
My boat is an old F40 catamaran. It currently has a 10hp (7.5kW) long shaft high torque outboard. This provides plenty of power (9kts is sufficient) but entrains air with any pitching motion. The boat sails well, so generally if there are waves then there is enough wind for this to not be an issue, except when we have waves in the mooring field. Then maneouvring between the other boats and picking up my mooring requires too much care and planning. The boat is moored so no shore power available.
My normal use case is 1km under power, including a lock gate, then sailing, then same again coming back. The primary aim of the refit is to set the boat up for single-handing. This involves adding a small central cabin to which all sail controls are brought, along with a water ballast system. This new cabin provides a mounting point for the new drive location that will be less prone to air entrainment, combined with deeper immersion.
Main problem is weight control. I can't include a large battery pack or a large generator, so my proposal is to have enough battery capacity to do my normal 2km, plus some reserve (so about 5km capability), which I think will require about 5kWh, allowing for reduced speed most of the time. Use this to feed two drive motors, one mounted forward, and one aft, each around 7.5kW, each with their own controllers. Both can rotate 360 for steering, and lift completely out of the water when sailing. This gives enough power, control and duration for close quarters maneouvring without the current issues.
If I need to run for longer, then one motor lifts up to the bridgedeck where it engages with a small petrol engine that spins it as a generator to charge the batteries and run the other motor, plus hotel loads as required. I think this will work for me because the only time I would need to motor for a long period would be when out at sea, and reduced speed and/or motor-sailing is fine at this time. I will use a lightweight engine that can drive the motor as a generator at above the 7.5kW nominal power (from initial calcs 10kW generation is possible with suitable sized/cooled components). I have read that the latest BEV's can regen at higher rates than they can recharge from a grid connection (800kW regen in the latest Porsche mule), so this is not as wild as it sounds.
The benefit of this arrangement for me is that my boat is moored at a location with regular tidal high current speeds, so on the mooring one or both can be left down to re-charge the system ready for the next trip. Similarly, when sailing they can be used to recharge. The boat is fast and powerful enough that the loss of performance will not be a problem if not racing. I will also cover the new cabin, hulls, etc., with as much PV as I can squeeze on.
My aim is to try and get this entire system to weigh less than 250kg, so about twice the current outboard plus mounts plus controllers plus fuel etc. I am saving weight elsewhere in the refit, but of course losing it all again with the cabin, so I don't have much to play with. I will be custom fabricating the drive housings, props, engine/prop interfaces, steering, etc., and buying motors, controllers, batteries and associated components.
Any thoughts appreciated. Apologies for the long post.
Cruisin Loser
Super Anarchist
h34r:
Elegua
Generalissimo
