Sydney To Hobart 2018

[Monkey]

Evidence is pretty freaking clear.  These are the three tracks of Comanche, Black Jack, and WOXI.  The one that goes in a straight line from Sydney to Hobart is WOXI.  Data comes from bigoceandata.com, AIS data is pulled from terrestial and satellite feeds.  

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The fanboys kept insisting she was the best around at VMG running. I’m now prepared to eat crow and agree!  That’s impressive!!

 

[Cal20sailor]

They have radar, they have the proper compass to have marpa overlay. You can't tell me you haven't used it before to look at what another boat is doing.

They broke a rule, are all rules created equal or not?  I think they get chucked after sailing a really nice race. 

 

[Just A Skosh]

They have radar, they have the proper compass to have marpa overlay. You can't tell me you haven't used it before to look at what another boat is doing.

Yes but what competent tactician relies on a single point of data to make significant decisions? WOXI failing to transmit undeniably had a negative impact on the other boats in regards to the information they were seeing.

 

[us7070]

They have radar, they have the proper compass to have marpa overlay. You can't tell me you haven't used it before to look at what another boat is doing.

sure

but AIS is easier and better - look.., it;s the middle of the night.., you're the navigator and you haven't slept  - you want to fuck with marpa?

also expedition has specific functions  to track ais locations and compute the competitors performance from them, and it can't do that with radar locations

also - the part you are forgetting is that WOXI navigator had and used the AIS positions of the other boats

 

[Monkey]

What penalty should be applied? To elapsed? Corrected? DSQ?

  I've been on a boat that was penalized on corrected for missing scheds, our Sat phone shit the bed, and we tried other means, but couldn't check in. I would argue this is a corrected time penalty. It not that BJ, Info or Comanche couldn't sail their own race. 

If it just came back to life because of a repair, I’d vote time penalty. If it came back to life because it was turned off, I don’t really see any choice but DSQ. 

Either way, they’ll probably lose line honors again for a stupid decision. 

 

[jackolantern]

One might say that AIS provides an Automatic Identification System 

 

[jackolantern]

Can a time penalty be assessed for a Rule 69 infraction? If it was really turned off on purpose then this goes beyond compliance and becomes malevolence - which certainly meets the threshold for “misconduct”

 

[Cal20sailor]

If it just came back to life because of a repair, I’d vote time penalty. If it came back to life because it was turned off, I don’t really see any choice but DSQ. 

Either way, they’ll probably lose line honors again for a stupid decision. 

Stupid just doesn't seem strong enough.  Idiotic, moronic, crazy, just to start.  In the real world people get fired for a lot less.  

 

[us7070]

Can a time penalty be assessed for a Rule 69 infraction? If it was really turned off on purpose then this goes beyond compliance and becomes malevolence - which certainly meets the threshold for “misconduct”

the simple explanation is that it was turned off because someone didn't read the SI's carefully...

there is no rule 69 issue here - relax!

 

[jackolantern]

Sorry, my all consuming dislike for arrogant pricks got the best of me there for a second. 

 

[Cal20sailor]

the simple explanation is that it was turned off because someone didn't read the SI's carefully...

there is no rule 69 issue here - relax!

I'd say losing LH for the second year in a row is punishment enough.  

 

[TPG]

sure

but AIS is easier and better - look.., it;s the middle of the night.., you're the navigator and you haven't slept  - you want to fuck with marpa?

also expedition has specific functions  to track ais locations and compute the competitors performance from them, and it can't do that with radar locations

also - the part you are forgetting is that WOXI navigator had and used the AIS positions of the other boats

Move cursor to target. Hit marpa button. Watch side panel with target data. You sure you've used marpa?

 

[Irish River]

Malicious intent versus mistake make for a compelling argument for dsq.

 

[us7070]

Move cursor to target. Hit marpa button. Watch side panel with target data. You sure you've used marpa?

navigators work in expedition

the radar overlay in expedition is very poor and nobody uses it

i want all my info in expedition - i don't want some in expedition and some on the radar

if their AIS is transmitting.., i have it all in expedition.., if it isn't.., i don't

if they have my AIS info in expedition.., and I don't have their AIS info in expedition.., they have an advantage. full stop.

 

[10thTonner]

from a nav point of view - there is a world of difference between seeing them with your eyes - at a distance.., in the middle of the night...

and having them plotted more or less continuously in expedition from AIS

with AIS  in expedition, you will know SOG COG and will be instantly alerted to a change - trying to make them out at night.., it can be hard to know if theget a kt faster or slower.., or head up 5deg or down 5deg...

also.., what are they going to do - delegate a crewmember to look at WOXI the whole race? the crew have other things to do...and the nav is mostly down below

having AIS position of your competitors is a _CLEAR_ advantage over not having it - even if you can see them

^This. AIS gives you their position and their COG and SOG. In a race where it is vital to play the shifts and avoid the holes, this is valuable data.

 

[forss]

There were 10% time penalty for not using nav lights (electrical failure) in Offshore Worlds this year.

10% sounds good for making yourself invisible for short time period.

But whole race without AIS?

 

[TPG]

navigators work in expedition

the radar overlay in expedition is very poor and nobody uses it

i want all my info in expedition - i don't want some in expedition and some on the radar

if their AIS is transmitting.., i have it all in expedition.., if it isn't.., i don't

if they have my AIS info in expedition.., and I don't have their AIS info in expedition.., they have an advantage. full stop.

Expedition supports marpa. Now you're just arguing to argue.

 

[us7070]

Expedition supports marpa. Now you're just arguing to argue.

most installations are not configured so expedition can get radar data

 

[Monkey]

Can a time penalty be assessed for a Rule 69 infraction? If it was really turned off on purpose then this goes beyond compliance and becomes malevolence - which certainly meets the threshold for “misconduct”

Just curious, but who are you expecting an R69 against?  So far in the public statements, MR demonstrated stupid, and JV went with vague, but denying wrong doing. In theory,  all they have to do is say MR turned it off and JV didn’t notice. Still a DSQ, and likely full of shit, but probably enough to skate. 

Edit:  forgot the third option of a simple malfunction. 

 

[TPG]

most installations are not configured so expedition can get radar data

But you have ALL THE DATAS IN THE EXPEDITIONS?!??!?!?!?!