Sydney To Hobart 2018

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,420
1,203
Melbourne
Teasing Machine having some fun.! Rumor has it they are bringing some French Liquor, Frog's legs and other assorted carb's to tackle this great race.! Purpose built IRC5 54 versus Australia's best TP52's, interesting times ahead...




 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
TM is a very cool but pro..very fast French program. S2H needs more like them.

 
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terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,420
1,203
Melbourne
Interesting look at Comanche way back at their start, even Tony Mutter's comments re the manual winches etc. Pity Rambler isn't doing the Hobart but  love they way they talked up this race with an 88 footer vs a 100.! 12 feet counts




 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
S2H needs more amateur teams not pro crews. Be interesting to see what they do next year for the 75th, in regard to inclusiveness. 
Yep boats like Ichi are very amateur..yet they fit in well with those really really amateur like  Couta and Co on Voodoo. Scan the combustion engine has been invented, you don't have to take a steam engine to work anymore.

 
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SCANAS

Super Anarchist
6,716
440
Brisbane
Yep boats like Ichi are very amateur..yet they fit in well with those really really amateur like  Couta and Co on Voodoo. Scan the combustion engine has been invented, you don't have to take a steam engine to work anymore.
It’s still 1986 or 1975 in our world. 

 

jackolantern

Super Anarchist
1,590
450
Ichi Ban is going to do a horizon job on Teasing Machine in anything light or VMG running. Once TM puts that beam to work on a reach though you can expect her to do the same.

Horses for Courses, as always. 

 

Curious

Anarchist
798
383
Probably one of the most damming things to come from the Coronial Enquiry, as representing a total ignorance in Australia of the Beaufort Scale. 

The Beaufort Scale was derived in the early 1800's and settled in the early 1900's save for subsequent adjustments to largely capture extreme events like cyclones/typhoons etc. BOM therefore by using in 1998 the category "Storm Warning" were using a term at least 100 years old. That category was delivered to the CYC one hour after the start (following a "Gale Warning" at the pre start weather briefing) and literally to the hour 24 hours later that Storm Warning transpired in reality within 5kn plus or minus. That said the term Gale Warning was not properly appreciated despite competitors having revieved weather packs describing it.

You then go on to say:

Well that is clearly horseshit trying to lay the blame on BOM. But maybe cottoning on you say this in a post 2 hours later acknowledging Australian sailors (but not alone outside Europe) didn't have a clue about the Beaufort Scale you say as follows. Yet you still blame BOM to the extent you invent shit by saying: "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.."

In probably one of the most detailed Coronial Enquiries in Australian history, yet there is no finding in that regard that BOM changed their windspeed directives as you claim. All evidence and conclusions show to the contrary that BOM were ramping their windspeed forecasts up from Christmas Day and peaked an hour after the start. The problem wasn't BOM's, the problem was their message was taken by the RC and incorrectly communicated to the fleet.

BOM reacted to 1998 by essentialy making the Beaufort Scale more marine casual user friendly in advance of both the 1999 S2H and pre the outcome of the Coronial Enquiry in 2000. The Coroner acknowledged that where on the other hand the CYCA were still in the fetal position pre his findings over a year after the event as evidenced by continuing with the same RC in 1999. BOM to this day has not changed its reliance on the Beufort Scale for transmitting things like High Seas forecasts in line with international standards of communicating weather forecasts. 

The upside of the tragedy of 1998 is the experience has been absorbed and things implemented via education, offshore regs etc.

However my guess is you are a fuckin slow learner and still 20 years later haven't  bothered to understand the Beufort Scale and think BOM was to blame.

Here is a Xmas present for you and note the "Storm" category as forecast by BOM, transmitted an hour after the start and experienced real time 24 hours later. Compare that to the bizzare forecast somehow transmitted by the RC to competitors indicating it might be sporty and telling the media this is record breaking weather. WTF.

View attachment 292100
Jeezers fucking Christ, will you fucking well read what is written instead of assuming that you're god's all-knowing gift to the sailing world! 

I said; "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.." as evidenced in the inquest and in the usual reports they give out now.  You said; "BOM reacted to 1998 by essentialy making the Beaufort Scale more marine casual user friendly in advance of both the 1999 S2H and pre the outcome of the Coronial Enquiry in 2000."

So you said essentially what I said - that the BoM changed the information it gives out - but you're claiming that when I say it it's wrong and when you say it it's right. I didn't say that the BoM changed its forecast for the 1998 race in any untoward way.  I don't need to be told what happened at the inquest because I was actually there a lot of the time and I am aware that Ken was trying to get hold of Thompson to let him know what was happening.   And if, as it appears, you think I'm defending the CYCA then you haven't read my posts or you're just trying to stir up shit to make yourself feel good

The coroner pointed out that many of the BoM's 'customers' in 1998 didn't understand the way the predicted windspeeds the BoM gave did not include the strength of the gusts. As I understand it the BoM followed international conventions, but many of the end users understandably didn't know those conventions. All I'm saying is that the BoM should have checked whether its message was getting through to the end users. Giving the general public "user friendly" language for vital messages instead of professional jargon is just normal good practise that the BoM was not following in 1998. 

As for the terminology of the Beaufort scale, whether people use the terms created by someone who used frigate topsails as a windspeed measurement is not a measure of their expertise, since they are just terms used (and not consistently; even the Great Lakes forecasters use different terms in some ways) to describe windspeed and as I said, around Sydney ocean racing it's more common to use knots. Why is it better to say "Force 10" when you could just say "48-55 knots"???

Since you have once again laid shit on people far and wide, do you mind telling us how many major ocean races or championships you have done and won? You spend a lot of time telling other people how little they know and how much you know, so you must be a legend of the sport and it would be nice to know who we are taking lessons from. 

 
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charisma94

Fucking Legend
1,312
287
Palma de Mallorca
Since you have once again laid shit on people far and wide, do you mind telling us how many major ocean races or championships you have done and won? You spend a lot of time telling other people how little they know and how much you know, so you must be a legend of the sport and it would be nice to know who we are taking lessons from. 
Didn't you know Jacks' the best sailor on the internet? Just ask him.

We now get to watch the dummy spit and abuse... Stand by.

 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
10,716
2,333
Probably one of the most damming things to come from the Coronial Enquiry, as representing a total ignorance in Australia of the Beaufort Scale. 

The Beaufort Scale was derived in the early 1800's and settled in the early 1900's save for subsequent adjustments to largely capture extreme events like cyclones/typhoons etc. BOM therefore by using in 1998 the category "Storm Warning" were using a term at least 100 years old. That category was delivered to the CYC one hour after the start (following a "Gale Warning" at the pre start weather briefing) and literally to the hour 24 hours later that Storm Warning transpired in reality within 5kn plus or minus. That said the term Gale Warning was not properly appreciated despite competitors having revieved weather packs describing it.

You then go on to say:

Well that is clearly horseshit trying to lay the blame on BOM. But maybe cottoning on you say this in a post 2 hours later acknowledging Australian sailors (but not alone outside Europe) didn't have a clue about the Beaufort Scale you say as follows. Yet you still blame BOM to the extent you invent shit by saying: "The BoM appears to have admitted that they had a communications issue by the way they changed their windspeed information.."

In probably one of the most detailed Coronial Enquiries in Australian history, yet there is no finding in that regard that BOM changed their windspeed directives as you claim. All evidence and conclusions show to the contrary that BOM were ramping their windspeed forecasts up from Christmas Day and peaked an hour after the start. The problem wasn't BOM's, the problem was their message was taken by the RC and incorrectly communicated to the fleet.

BOM reacted to 1998 by essentialy making the Beaufort Scale more marine casual user friendly in advance of both the 1999 S2H and pre the outcome of the Coronial Enquiry in 2000. The Coroner acknowledged that where on the other hand the CYCA were still in the fetal position pre his findings over a year after the event as evidenced by continuing with the same RC in 1999. BOM to this day has not changed its reliance on the Beufort Scale for transmitting things like High Seas forecasts in line with international standards of communicating weather forecasts. 

The upside of the tragedy of 1998 is the experience has been absorbed and things implemented via education, offshore regs etc.

However my guess is you are a fuckin slow learner and still 20 years later haven't  bothered to understand the Beufort Scale and think BOM was to blame.

Here is a Xmas present for you and note the "Storm" category as forecast by BOM, transmitted an hour after the start and experienced real time 24 hours later. Compare that to the bizzare forecast somehow transmitted by the RC to competitors indicating it might be sporty and telling the media this is record breaking weather. WTF.

View attachment 292100
It’s hard to blame anyone. I totally understand that everyone uses different terms from country to country, but I’ll openly admit that despite 30 some years of racing sail boats, I have no fucking clue what the Beaufort scale means. I’ve heard of of it, but no clue on the values. Other than dopey tradition, I can’t understand why you wouldn’t just say “winds up to XX knots expected.”

Likewise on the storm versus gale wind issue. If I hadn’t read about the 98 Hobart, I’d still be in the camp that had it backwards. 

 

PIL66 - XL2

Super Anarchist
2,701
751
Stralya
Do they still have the 70 footer ?

even if they don’t they may still have a spare mast and parts from that boat. 

Pulpit
They can always take Maserati ........

Someone is poking the bear...... beer at the ready

 
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Rantifarian

Rantifarian
15 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Zen TP52 owner Gordon Ketelbey telling us how to balance the books at the end of the month. Don't know much about their crew and their chances of doing well in this race? When you look at the Ichi Ban crew it's hard to rank the rest of the 52's in some sort of order if they have the sweet handicap spot? I'm looking forward to seeing Teasing Machine 3 and their hot shot French crew race against all the 52's. The blood is starting to warm now..............


The boat is fresh out of the shed according to Facebook, getting a bit of structure added before heading out. Their nav is a pretty switched on fella, no idea about the rest of the crew. 

 

Next Level

Member
230
13
Sydney
The boat is fresh out of the shed according to Facebook, getting a bit of structure added before heading out. Their nav is a pretty switched on fella, no idea about the rest of the crew. 
Boat looks good. It’s the F40 crew plus a few extras. 

Couple of switched blokes on the boat..

 

Francis Vaughan

Super Anarchist
I have no fucking clue what the Beaufort scale means. I’ve heard of of it, but no clue on the values. Other than dopey tradition,
I will admit to being somewhat worried about this. There is nothing dopey traditional about the Beaufort scale. It has international understanding, is in use in all professional seafaring. The nature of weather at sea has not changed over the centuries. No sailor with a professional certificate would be ignorant of the scale. The scale has the intrinsic benefit of providing a set of visual guides that means you don't need a windspeed meter to know what the conditions are. It isn't just for forecasting, it is for communicating conditions. Complaining about tradition, yet we stick with nautical miles and knots. Surely in this modern age of the Internet, computer based weather forecasting and GPS both of those are obsolete, and we should do it all in kilometers? Since you no longer stand at the back of the boat with a sextant running a line out between your fingers counting knots, all our navigation is alo dopey tradition, and we should not expect any sailor to know knots and nautical miles either. We don't, and for good reason.

My day job is in software for safety critical maritime systems. I doubt that anyone who doesn't have a perfect understanding of something as basic as the Beaufort scale gets to stand in the same room as any of our systems.

 
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