Sydney to Hobart 2019

[PIL66 - XL2]

Shockwave. 

Very late program.  No crew confirmed.. rig yet to go in.. no training.... 

 

[SCANAS]

Very late program.  No crew confirmed.. rig yet to go in.. no training.... 

Where do I sign!?

 

[duncan (the other one)]

In my humble opinion a Canting Keel 46 with foils should hang pretty close to a box rule 52. 

Rates just higher! 1.406

 vs 1.397 Ichi &

 1.371 Old Celestial / Wot Now

where did you get those numbers from? They're complete bollocks.

IRC: https://ircrating.org/irc-racing/online-tcc-listings/

Maverick - 1.388

Ichi Bum - 1.407

Celestial - 1.382

 

[SCANAS]

where did you get those numbers from? They're complete bollocks.

IRC: https://ircrating.org/irc-racing/online-tcc-listings/

Maverick - 1.388

Ichi Bum - 1.407

Celestial - 1.382

From race results:
https://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/standings?categoryId=0&raceId=113

&

https://www.rorc.org/raceresults/2017/ircoverall14.html

 

[Recidivist]

Thanks guys.  Boats get re-optimised all the time, but it seems Maverick's in the ball park with a TP52, and so her performance in that race was about what should be expected.  I wasn't sure if she was killing it, or barking.  Neither, it seems.

 

[duncan (the other one)]

From race results:
https://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/standings?categoryId=0&raceId=113

&

https://www.rorc.org/raceresults/2017/ircoverall14.html

2018 and 2017 respectively.

IRC rating site is the only definitive source to use.

 

[SCANAS]

2018 and 2017 respectively.

IRC rating site is the only definitive source to use.

Yeah I didn’t think Recidivist was going to start a spreadsheet, just a general idea. I’m sure there will be some new certs issued before the race. 

 

[dachopper]

What's it rate?

No, really.  I was watching it on the tracker in the recent Newcastle/Bird Island race - until they broke something they were hanging on well a couple of miles behind Gweilo the TP52, but I couldn't find ratings to indicate whether they should have been there or not.

Oh, and in that race, Celestial put in a very good performance - was that the ex-Ambition, or the previous Celestial?  Anyone know?

Well... From one of the Euro races, their beam reach speed is incredible..... 60 foot botin catching incredible.... for a 46 footer that is.

Most of the other big races they have done.... wind has generally been light with the odd exception, so maybe we see the full potential of a DSS optimized boat for once....... something tells me the IMOCA 60 style foils are the way to go though!

 

[duncan (the other one)]

Well... From one of the Euro races, their beam reach speed is incredible..... 60 foot botin catching incredible.... for a 46 footer that is.

Most of the other big races they have done.... wind has generally been light with the odd exception, so maybe we see the full potential of a DSS optimized boat for once....... something tells me the IMOCA 60 style foils are the way to go though!

it'll wholly depend on how the major offshore rating systems (IRC) treat them.

History tells us fast-for-their-length boats are one-trick ponies that never rate well overall, and therefore don't end up being too popular.

 

[terrafirma]

it'll wholly depend on how the major offshore rating systems (IRC) treat them.

History tells us fast-for-their-length boats are one-trick ponies that never rate well overall, and therefore don't end up being too popular.

Yes the problem for Maverick is that they must carry the handicap of a 52 footer with them all the time despite only performing like a 52 footer some of the time. They are penalized for the DSS however it only works in some conditions not all. I would like to know what their results have been in light air races etc?

 

[DickDastardly]

Yes the problem for Maverick is that they must carry the handicap of a 52 footer with them all the time despite only performing like a 52 footer some of the time. They are penalized for the DSS however it only works in some conditions not all. I would like to know what their results have been in light air races etc?

That's not a DSS-specific argument, it's a single number handicap argument.   A heavy cruiser-racer has a fixed handicap delta vs a TP25, in some weather condition/course combos the cruiser-racer will always win and in others, the TP52 will always win.  A DSS boat certainly makes that delta more extreme given that its RM varies with speed, unlike a non-DSS boat. 

A single number handicap is necessarily an average across up, down and reaching conditions and a range of wind strengths.  It will always struggle to fairly handicap disparate boats so weather vs course geometry become the main determinants of success in a lot of races.  That as much less the case in IOR type forming days, but I don't know anyone who wants to go back there.

 

[duncan (the other one)]

That's not a DSS-specific argument, it's a single number handicap argument.   A heavy cruiser-racer has a fixed handicap delta vs a TP25, in some weather condition/course combos the cruiser-racer will always win and in others, the TP52 will always win.  A DSS boat certainly makes that delta more extreme given that its RM varies with speed, unlike a non-DSS boat. 

A single number handicap is necessarily an average across up, down and reaching conditions and a range of wind strengths.  It will always struggle to fairly handicap disparate boats so weather vs course geometry become the main determinants of success in a lot of races.  That as much less the case in IOR type forming days, but I don't know anyone who wants to go back there.

IMS post-constructed weather.

You know you want to

 

[The Dark Knight]

IMS post-constructed weather.

You know you want to

by the time the millennials and subsequent generations are dominating boat ownership and racing, there will be a new handicap system that calculates the results so that it's a dead heat for first for all competitors, so everyone is a winner. DNF competitors will also be promoted to winner so as to not make them feel left out.

For the 100th S2H there will be 200 tattersalls prizes handed out The golden age of yachting to come..... 

 

[SCANAS]

Seeing as though it’s a rich get richer economy. There will be less & less domestic entries going forward. 

 

[DickDastardly]

IMS post-constructed weather.

You know you want to

I daren't mention it...and it's a proven turkey in any case.

There's no perfect answer.  Closest is probably grouping boats of similar DLR/Sailing Characteristics together in Divisions rather than by size.  This is sort-of done in some races.  It does mean that the overall winner and placegetters will probably cluster in one division but that's no less an evil than presently IMHO.

 

[Flippin Out]

What's it rate?

No, really.  I was watching it on the tracker in the recent Newcastle/Bird Island race - until they broke something they were hanging on well a couple of miles behind Gweilo the TP52, but I couldn't find ratings to indicate whether they should have been there or not.

Oh, and in that race, Celestial put in a very good performance - was that the ex-Ambition, or the previous Celestial?  Anyone know?

Ambition still in it's pen at Sandy Yacht Club as of last night.

 

[Recidivist]

Ambition still in it's pen at Sandy Yacht Club as of last night.

Wow.  If the "old" Celestial performed so well, what is Sam Haynes hoping for by "upgrading" - to beat Ichi?

 

[SPORTSCAR]

by the time the millennials and subsequent generations are dominating boat ownership and racing, there will be a new handicap system that calculates the results so that it's a dead heat for first for all competitors, so everyone is a winner. DNF competitors will also be promoted to winner so as to not make them feel left out.

For the 100th S2H there will be 200 tattersalls prizes handed out The golden age of yachting to come..... 

Any chance of you lining up for the 100th Great Race in your newly acquired $80k TP52?

 

[The Dark Knight]

Any chance of you lining up for the 100th Great Race in your newly acquired $80k TP52?

Not a chance, I'll be bitching about the ch7 8k broadcast from my nursing home. Maybe Vicky will do the race.

 

[Livia]

I daren't mention it...and it's a proven turkey in any case.

There's no perfect answer.  Closest is probably grouping boats of similar DLR/Sailing Characteristics together in Divisions rather than by size.  This is sort-of done in some races.  It does mean that the overall winner and placegetters will probably cluster in one division but that's no less an evil than presently IMHO.

It is simple, IRC in a long race you just gamble hard.

optimise the boat for a set of conditions really hard

get that you win if not bad luck

this is the biggest failing of IRC.

At least IOR for its fault kept all boats whether 30 feet of 70 fleet in a pretty tight envelope

sure weather will always play a big part but the differences now are so exaggerated.