Sydney to Hobart 2020

Chucky

Anarchist
534
42
Melbourne
What about toilet and showers etc can't see the crew wanting to go back to the boat after the race. Most want to get off and fly home. 
Not all boat owners who compete in the Sydney to  Hobart Race are cheque book sailors. Ie do not have paid crew to deliver their boat home with their race crew

 
Not all boat owners who compete in the Sydney to  Hobart Race are cheque book sailors. Ie do not have paid crew to deliver their boat home with their race crew
Sadly it is not just the pro's that want to jump off & fly back.

After 23 races & 20 deliveries,  (2 DNFs & 1 boat too damaged to return straight away),  it always amazes me to see the inexperienced crews who want to jump on a plane on to be home for New Year or straight after the NYE show in Hobart.  Then next long race they are Hobart veterans and can't understand why they aren't on the wheel.  Just when do they think they should get the experience to be given these opportunities if not on deliveries.

And anyway when I was a boy the job wasn't done until the toys were back in their box!

Just a minute I have to go and chase some kids off my lawn.

 

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,599
1,336
Melbourne
Sadly it is not just the pro's that want to jump off & fly back.

After 23 races & 20 deliveries,  (2 DNFs & 1 boat too damaged to return straight away),  it always amazes me to see the inexperienced crews who want to jump on a plane on to be home for New Year or straight after the NYE show in Hobart.  Then next long race they are Hobart veterans and can't understand why they aren't on the wheel.  Just when do they think they should get the experience to be given these opportunities if not on deliveries.

And anyway when I was a boy the job wasn't done until the toys were back in their box!

Just a minute I have to go and chase some kids off my lawn.
Hence my point.  The race won't happen. Even in the Vendee Artic race just completed by the Imoca sailors when they crossed the finish line they had to turn around and go home after sailing for 11 days. How many crews will want to finish the Hobart and turn around and sail home again?  Tasmania will not allow anyone from Victoria and NSW into the state until the virus is long gone. Anyone want to predict COVID will be long gone by December? 

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
Surely, they argued, autopilot – and the sophisticated routing software that now drives it – would be an unfair advantage. 
Unfair advantage? WTF. Complete fucking garbage.

Firstly routing software doesn't drive AP. They both have routing software which needs a human to drive it so that part equal.

However a dedicated navigator is not standing watches on a crewed boat (but in reality some spending more time at the table) versus 2H the advantage rests with crewed router driver doing that routing.

Secondly driving a crewed boat with multiple drivers swapping out every hour or so in heavy shit. Someone else doing all the trimming after every sail or course change. 

Driving with AP evidence of someone on the helm for the overwhelming majority of SH races is testament to a human can still drive better over shorter time periods than a AP.

However human still has to trim the pilot to max it's performance. After a course change or sail change a crewed driver is immediately driving. However on a SH the AP first requires driving to recalibrate correction settings. 

There are only two external conditions wind and sea state that drive an AP. However then there are million of adjustments required just like the human brain of someone driving. While automatic they still require hand tuning.

Think of a SH crew as a carer (C) and and AP is an autistic person (AP) who is really good at fucking maths, but that person can't feed themselves. They still need external assistance to produce that maths. 

So what produces a rudder angle/response rate? AFTER it has gone through things like a multi axis sensor to measure heel, roll and pitch a masthead AWS/AWA correction can be applied. This is before even converting apparent wind to true data using instantanoues BS and course changes to create true wind data to drive AP. Then things like gust response factors and sea state sitting in your head to drive calibration tweaks that then drive AP and that rudder response rate.

Just saying it makes your head sore, let alone doing it.

This recalibration of the AP by C might take 15 minutes in some wind sea combination conditions AFTER EVERY course or sail change.

Even after doing all that the crewed driver is driving better providing they are rested.

Therefore if any crewed boats are scared about being beaten by a 2 humans plus an autopilot...then my guess they are probably still scared of the dark, living at home with their parents while kissing their sister to get a hard on.

Fucking turnips.

 
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terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,599
1,336
Melbourne
Unfair advantage? WTF. Complete fucking garbage.

Firstly routing software doesn't drive AP. They both have routing software which needs a human to drive it so that part equal.

However a dedicated navigator is not standing watches on a crewed boat (but in reality some spending more time at the table) versus 2H the advantage rests with crewed router driver doing that routing.

Secondly driving a crewed boat with multiple drivers swapping out every hour or so in heavy shit. Someone else doing all the trimming after every sail or course change. 

Driving with AP evidence of someone on the helm for the overwhelming majority of SH races is testament to a human can still drive better over shorter time periods than a AP.

However human still has to trim the pilot to max it's performance. After a course change or sail change a crewed driver is immediately driving. However on a SH the AP first requires driving to recalibrate correction settings. 

There are only two external conditions wind and sea state that drive an AP. However then there are million of adjustments required just like the human brain of someone driving. While automatic they still require hand tuning.

Think of a SH crew as a carer (C) and and AP is an autistic person (AP) who is really good at fucking maths, but that person can't feed themselves. They still need external assistance to produce that maths. 

So what produces a rudder angle/response rate? AFTER it has gone through things like a multi axis sensor to measure heel, roll and pitch a masthead AWS/AWA correction can be applied. This is before even converting apparent wind to true data using instantanoues BS and course changes to create true wind data to drive AP. Then things like gust response factors and sea state sitting in your head to drive calibration tweaks that then drive AP and that rudder response rate.

Just saying it makes your head sore, let alone doing it.

This recalibration of the AP by C might take 15 minutes in some wind sea combination conditions AFTER EVERY course or sail change.

Even after doing all that the crewed driver is driving better providing they are rested.

Therefore if any crewed boats are scared about being beaten by a 2 humans plus an autopilot...then my guess they are probably still scared of the dark, living at home with their parents while kissing their sister to get a hard on.

Fucking turnips.
Agree 100 % Jack. Good to see you back anyhow. Brexit finished for you for now?  :D

 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
7,255
1,726
Brisvegas
Hence my point.  The race won't happen. Even in the Vendee Artic race just completed by the Imoca sailors when they crossed the finish line they had to turn around and go home after sailing for 11 days. How many crews will want to finish the Hobart and turn around and sail home again?  Tasmania will not allow anyone from Victoria and NSW into the state until the virus is long gone. Anyone want to predict COVID will be long gone by December? 
In theory, this hard lockdown should get Victoria in to a state where we are comparable to somewhere like QLD. The question will be whether NSW will get control of their numbers and QLD doesn't have an outbreak from their recent issues.

I'm willing to predict that by the end of September there will be a chance that Tassie will think about opening up to the east coast states. I am however not discounting the possibility that somewhere there will be a lockdown for Xmas 

 

DtM

Super Anarchist
3,983
516
Out of the Office
Hoppy, if you think that what you are doing in Victoria at the moment is going to stop you Mexicans being a pariah at the end of six weeks you are kidding yourself.

 

Swanno

Super Anarchist
They will run it with a quarantine area in Hobart with all crew having to return on the boat.  They will setup a bar, provisioning area and off you go and no stopping and setting foot on the land on the way
So you're suggesting crews wont just do the fun bit of the race and have to help with the delivery home too?

 

SPORTSCAR

Super Anarchist
Can someone draw the cyca attention to the autopilot issues, as per Jack?
Do you seriously think they would give a rats rectum about Jacks views? There are no doubt pressures being brought to bear on them by highly influential (read: moneyed) anti AP individuals that could turn coal in to diamonds.

Probably aint gonna be a Hobart this year anyway so they will have a year longer to ignore common sense and the rest of the enlightened sailing world.

 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
Can someone draw the cyca attention to the autopilot issues, as per Jack?

Do you seriously think they would give a rats rectum about Jacks views? There are no doubt pressures being brought to bear on them by highly influential (read: moneyed) anti AP individuals that could turn coal in to diamonds.


Indeed..

But resistance to the 'anti ap' snowjob has to commence somewhere.
If you don't bitch you then can't complain about the consequences. 

It was submissions about 2018 S2H AISGate that saw application of the rule change.

Interestingly even then some RC's didn't get the message.

From this thread and an identical RC AIS protest in last weekend's Brisbane to Keppel. Interestingly same boat in a harbour give way protest in last year's S2H, where they questioned about being penalised and pushed off the podium. Richo has set up a protest trend with this lot from QLD.  :lol:

____________________________________


18 months after 2018 S2H and AISGate...a sycophantic RC, a "dead cat" protest, a end of race competitor declaration not mentioned ..... and it seems still not a lesson learnt.

View attachment 381694

 
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trt131

Super Anarchist
1,607
323
What does Facts Found 3 have to do with anything?  Isn't this about collision avoidance with shipping.

 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,038
1,103
Southern Ocean
What does Facts Found 3 have to do with anything?  Isn't this about collision avoidance with shipping.
You mean that as the race passes through the approaches of the 4th and 5th business ports in Australia and Gladstone alone has over 150 shipping movements a month with about 20 ships anchored in the approaches, that AIS might be useful to these large commercial ships when the target is going through at close to 20 knots.

The justification for AS to mandate compulsory operation of AIS just went out the window.

Seamanship is so old fashioned in yacht racing

 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
What does Facts Found 3 have to do with anything?  Isn't this about collision avoidance with shipping.
Yes that maybe. Maybe this protest was conducted so it can be used in a new AS course for RO/RC's on "How Not to Conduct Protests." It seems to tick most boxes.

 
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The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
7,255
1,726
Brisvegas
To be fair to Envy, the RC using Marine Traffic website smacks of incompetence by the RC. MT is not a reliable source for AIS. They should have checked the AIS on the committee boat and reported to Envy that it was not on.

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
To be fair to Envy, the RC using Marine Traffic website smacks of incompetence by the RC. 
Nonsense. Try reading. Facts Found #1. It wasn't the RC monitoring Marine Traffic it was Envy herself and prior to the start, who reported it. Question is why didn't Envy check with other competitors, when in TX/RX distance? If she did that would be in facts found as replicating content of their race declaration. No mention is made of declaration in facts found.

 MT is not a reliable source for AIS.
More nonsense. Read the RRS, Offshore Regs, SI's and NOR on rules compliance responsibility and declaration.

Therefore why would RC check compliance, particularly knowing there will be dropouts, with any internet VHF RX based AIS reporting system, exactly as you say. Internet satellite RX based, still prone to drop outs from Class B AIS via masthead mounted antennas.

They should have checked the AIS on the committee boat and reported to Envy that it was not on.
Ditto and as Committee boat RX/TX distance is only within distance of the start, not race course, so pointless.

There may be RC shortcomings, but what you say certainly wasn't one of them.

 
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SPORTSCAR

Super Anarchist
You mean that as the race passes through the approaches of the 4th and 5th business ports in Australia and Gladstone alone has over 150 shipping movements a month with about 20 ships anchored in the approaches, that AIS might be useful to these large commercial ships when the target is going through at close to 20 knots.

The justification for AS to mandate compulsory operation of AIS just went out the window.

Seamanship is so old fashioned in yacht racing
Integrity seems to be taking a bit of a thrashing too.  

 




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