El Borracho
Barkeeper’s Friend
Close enough given that displacement is neither calculated or measured but merely copied from dream to napkin to brochure to sailboatdata.
Talk me out of buying this Santa Cruz 50
- Thread starter mckenzie.keith
- Start date
Beer fueled Mayhem
Anarchist
Chunderbeast! :lol:
Yeah, my boat won't surf but we did 200 mile days with no problem. She is surprisingly fast in the light air as well. I love my boat. I can't afford not to. Does most everything right for me.
Wauquiez and interior varnish. Grrrrrrrr. The yard used this Beeswax coating to give the wood a honey color. When you try to repair an area with damage that goes through the wax and the varnish, the wood turns the typical darker color of teak. So the repaired area is very noticeable. You have to take the finish down to bare wood and then refinish it. Otherwise it looks like shit. That 47 foot W would be (for me anyway) a complete pain in the ass to redo the interior. I am working on refinishing my boat slowly but surely.
IMHO, I think that a 42 foot sailboat is right on the ragged edge of affordable and being easy enough to single hand. New main and 130% jib in 2015 was right around 10k. Dacron crosscut. Ballard sails in Seattle.
Yeah, my boat won't surf but we did 200 mile days with no problem. She is surprisingly fast in the light air as well. I love my boat. I can't afford not to. Does most everything right for me.
Wauquiez and interior varnish. Grrrrrrrr. The yard used this Beeswax coating to give the wood a honey color. When you try to repair an area with damage that goes through the wax and the varnish, the wood turns the typical darker color of teak. So the repaired area is very noticeable. You have to take the finish down to bare wood and then refinish it. Otherwise it looks like shit. That 47 foot W would be (for me anyway) a complete pain in the ass to redo the interior. I am working on refinishing my boat slowly but surely.
IMHO, I think that a 42 foot sailboat is right on the ragged edge of affordable and being easy enough to single hand. New main and 130% jib in 2015 was right around 10k. Dacron crosscut. Ballard sails in Seattle.
I would guess, and it's only a guess, that a small family on a SC50 will NOT be able to rip off the miles that a racing crew of 8 can do, yet they could easily get 80% of the capability from a chunderbeast.
Are there small families that could? Maybe. Maybe.
Here's where the SC50 will really be different, everything will be lighter, less loaded, and easier to manage.
And remember, my personal boat is completely empty up front, no v-berth, and we've got pipe berths in our "cabins" - of which there are no cabins as I have a racing cockpit, so no headroom down below aft the companionway. I totally get the 50.
kinardly
Super Anarchist
This! My wife and I looked at another one of these about five years ago, also in Alameda. We really and I mean REALLY, liked the way they were built and by that time we had seen at least two dozen similarly sized and aged boats that were just mildew incubators. The Wauquiez was completely dry inside and this was during a very wet winter in the Bay area. The problem? When we added up the cost of replacing the rod rigging and sails and refinishing or replacing all the fried teak, we were almost doubling the purchase price. It broke our hearts but we decided to pass.
Elegua
Generalissimo
Beer fueled Mayhem
Anarchist
Yeah. I seriously considered it. Just like the look of wood down below. I was never considered "smart".
shaggybaxter
Super Anarchist
Another way to make the decision is think of it like buying a family horse. The old adage of Horses for courses 'n all.
Arabian Horse
The ideal endurance horse is fast but doesn’t tire easily. They also need to have plenty of stamina as well as the ability to recover quickly. Some races are run over the desert so the capacity to perform well under extreme heat is highly beneficial.
Sometimes called the Bedouin horse, the Arabian is the ultimate endurance horse, especially across the desert. For thousands of years, they’ve been bred by the nomadic Bedouins who needed a sturdy warhorse that had plenty of energy and stamina as well as an ability to survive with little water. Being hot-blooded, their skin is thinner than that of other breeds which helps them to keep cool in the heat of the desert. This thin skin though also works well to stop them overheating which is just one reason why they make such good endurance horses. Having to travel vast distances in search of water has helped them to develop their phenomenal stamina, this means that in theory, they don’t need as much water as other horses (although I wouldn’t recommend this).
Quarter Horse
The Quarter Horse’s name is testament to its racing history, having been raced over 1/4 mile streets they were originally known as Quarter Pather Horses before it was shortened to what we know today. Today, if you ask most people about the Quarter Horse they’ll tell you about their natural cow sense and how they can turn on a sixpence but probably won’t mention their speed. Although the Thoroughbred has surpassed the Quarter Horse in terms of popularity on the track, when it comes to speed over a short distance the Quarter Horse won’t be beaten.
Sexy Horse
Then you have the third group, where people don't give a damn about performance, but make their decision purely on aesthetic reasons. All about the bling and pure cosmetics alone, and damn the practicality. It cant leave the barn as it 's too prissy to walk on uneven ground, but fuck it sure look good.
It'd be a bit strange to buy a quarter horse and try and make it perform like an Arabian and vice versa, so why should we do it with boats and expect a different outcome?
Which one is right is a matter of choice. But please don't get the last one.
Arabian Horse
The ideal endurance horse is fast but doesn’t tire easily. They also need to have plenty of stamina as well as the ability to recover quickly. Some races are run over the desert so the capacity to perform well under extreme heat is highly beneficial.
Sometimes called the Bedouin horse, the Arabian is the ultimate endurance horse, especially across the desert. For thousands of years, they’ve been bred by the nomadic Bedouins who needed a sturdy warhorse that had plenty of energy and stamina as well as an ability to survive with little water. Being hot-blooded, their skin is thinner than that of other breeds which helps them to keep cool in the heat of the desert. This thin skin though also works well to stop them overheating which is just one reason why they make such good endurance horses. Having to travel vast distances in search of water has helped them to develop their phenomenal stamina, this means that in theory, they don’t need as much water as other horses (although I wouldn’t recommend this).
Quarter Horse
The Quarter Horse’s name is testament to its racing history, having been raced over 1/4 mile streets they were originally known as Quarter Pather Horses before it was shortened to what we know today. Today, if you ask most people about the Quarter Horse they’ll tell you about their natural cow sense and how they can turn on a sixpence but probably won’t mention their speed. Although the Thoroughbred has surpassed the Quarter Horse in terms of popularity on the track, when it comes to speed over a short distance the Quarter Horse won’t be beaten.
Sexy Horse
Then you have the third group, where people don't give a damn about performance, but make their decision purely on aesthetic reasons. All about the bling and pure cosmetics alone, and damn the practicality. It cant leave the barn as it 's too prissy to walk on uneven ground, but fuck it sure look good.
It'd be a bit strange to buy a quarter horse and try and make it perform like an Arabian and vice versa, so why should we do it with boats and expect a different outcome?
Which one is right is a matter of choice. But please don't get the last one.
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mckenzie.keith
Aspiring Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #148
It is not my intention or expectation to rip off the miles of any racing crew. But just going by basic hydrodynamics, the SC 50 will still out-waterline even the Wauqiez Centurion. Probably by a lot. And long skinny hulls can cheat hull speed a little anyway, even without really coming up onto a plane.
As I said in my initial post, the attraction is that this is a lot of waterline for the money. As far as everything being lighter, less loaded, and easier to manage, that is my hope. I am not looking at anything that weighs 30,000 lbs, regardless of LOA or WLL. It will either be a dog or need too much sail area to get up to speed.
The way I look at it is that this boat will go faster than most 40 foot performance cruisers even with a reef in. But it has the ability to put up a lot of sail area when it is light. And when conditions are right, and I feel good about it, I can sail in excess of hull speed. But I don't HAVE to do that. Certainly don't have to do it all the time or at night if I don't want to. So I think this boat would cruise faster and sail vs motor much more often than any other boat I would consider in the 40 foot range.
I may go look at this boat in person. Just because I feel I have to do that to get it out of my system. But my doubts are building. Everyone is doing a good job of talking me out of it. Mainly by emphasizing that it may take a lot of time and money. I don't want to replace the motor and the rigging and strip the gelcoat and buy new sails and figure out some kind of anchoring system, etc. I can probably find something in the 40-44 foot range that is much closer to turnkey.
shaggybaxter
Super Anarchist
That was part of my check list too when I bought my last boat. But add cruising weight, then make sure you don't need too much sail up to still carry the higher average speed you are trying to achieve. Or you're going to feel like a dick for buying a boat that is too hard to manage the optimal sail plan for the conditions.
In light to medium airs, my 2100 ft2 loose luffed kite is awesome, but my wife is shit scared of it as it's too big for her. Ergo: we don't use it when family cruising. I must admit its a lot of sail area if things go pear shaped quickly. (putting a sock back on it was the solution that worked for me for the non furling big kites and short handed)
Thankfully the boat doesn't need a lot of sail area to do high averages, so it's not an issue, but if I bought too much of a racer and needed a big wardrobe aloft to keep it moving, that's kinda defeating the purpose of lazy idyllic cruising IMHO.
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DRP
New member
Buy an Olson 30 or Hobie 33. Plan to keep it for a year and teach your daughter and wife how to sail. Spend a weekend or two on it during that time. If everyone enjoys themselves, then sell it and go out and buy a SC50. It will seem like a palace compared to those boats. Another SC50 in better shape with a lower cost will be for sale when you’re ready. The SC50 you are looking at is one of the worst I have ever seen.
mckenzie.keith
Aspiring Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #151
Son not daughter. This is something my wife is going to let me do because it is important to me. It is not going to be a shared dream. It just isn't. But point taken about waiting for the right boat. But SC 50's are also not like Catalina 42's. There are always half a dozen Catalina 42's on the market in California.
jacrider
Member
If you actually want to go sailing - there are better (newer/better maintained) choices. If you want to work on a boat - if that's part of the dream, then this could be a great choice. I for one love sailing fast boats.
So what other options? Big Bene Firsts? 44.7 or 47.7. About 2 or 3x the money, but you can sail them now without sinking a bunch more cash. X-Yachts. J/46, J/133 or J/145. Big Hanses. These will all be easier to sail with a small family crew than a SC50.
So what other options? Big Bene Firsts? 44.7 or 47.7. About 2 or 3x the money, but you can sail them now without sinking a bunch more cash. X-Yachts. J/46, J/133 or J/145. Big Hanses. These will all be easier to sail with a small family crew than a SC50.
socalrider
Super Anarchist
Is your wife planning on coming with you? Don't mean to get too personal on this stuff but man, that sounds like a terrible idea if she's not into it. It's one thing to "let you do" this, another to drag her along if she doesn't really know what she's in for.
Olsen 40? Obviously not as much waterline but would scoot if kept light & be a lot less coin to keep up. Can't think of many production ULDB 50's other than Santa Cruz.
mckenzie.keith
Aspiring Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #154
No. Wife is not coming with. I mean, not on long passages. She will come visit once the boat is somewhere with an airport. I know I was surprised how personal it all got, LOL! People are not just offering advice on the boat but also navigating the stress that boat ownership puts on a relationship. You guys don't hold back. I probably should have used something other than my actual name as my user name when I signed up. But I do appreciate all the advice. It feels like it all comes from a sincere desire to help me make good decisions.
mckenzie.keith
Aspiring Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #156
ConradGordon
Banned
- 11
- 9
- Banned
- #157
I've looked at the SC 50- pretty tired. Something like this might be a better deal in the end- just as fast or faster, newer, kept up and ready to go. You'll appreciate the water maker. And he's been trying to sell it for a while. Offer $100K.
2002 Concordia 47 Cruiser/Racer for sale - YachtWorld
2002 Concordia 47 Cruiser/Racer for sale - YachtWorld
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fufkin
Super Anarchist
I know a couple that made it work this way. They had means, he circumnavigated with various crew(extended or immediate family mainly) and the wife flew to key destinations because she didn't like long passage making. When the boat was situated, she'd happily enjoy for how ever long etc.
Panoramix
Super Anarchist
By losing the relative simplicity of the SC50, everything becomes more expensive and complex.
