Team NYYC

jaysper

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Looking over old threads about the Court Crap I ran into this post in a thread about Casper leaving ETNZ after AC32 (also some good insults directed at me in that thread):



So Devos and the Green Donut have been rumored to be going for the AC 10 years ago.   Hopefully that will translate into a competitive campaign right out of the box.

WetHog   :ph34r:
There's a world of difference between planning to be in the AC for 10 years and actually BEING in the AC for 10 years.

Whilst they might very well be competitive, you will IMO have to wait for the next cycle before there is a realistic shot at the cup itself.

But they have to start somewhere and it is certainly good news that they appear to be doing just that.

 

WetHog

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There's a world of difference between planning to be in the AC for 10 years and actually BEING in the AC for 10 years.

Whilst they might very well be competitive, you will IMO have to wait for the next cycle before there is a realistic shot at the cup itself.

But they have to start somewhere and it is certainly good news that they appear to be doing just that.
Sure there is a difference between planning and being in the AC for 10 years, but in traditional AC's 1st year teams like LR, America One, Oracle and Alinghi have had success in their 1st years as Challengers with Alinghi having the ultimate success.  I am hoping, with 10 years of planning, that The Green Donut is competitive on the level of LR, America One and Oracle at least. 

WetHog   :ph34r:

 

jaysper

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Sure there is a difference between planning and being in the AC for 10 years, but in traditional AC's 1st year teams like LR, America One, Oracle and Alinghi have had success in their 1st years as Challengers with Alinghi having the ultimate success.  I am hoping, with 10 years of planning, that The Green Donut is competitive on the level of LR, America One and Oracle at least. 

WetHog   :ph34r:
I just hope they don't turn out to be the disappointment for you that Orifice did.

 

WetHog

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I just hope they don't turn out to be the disappointment for you that Orifice did.
Meh, I enjoyed AC33, and AC34 had its moments, but yeah AC32 was especially frustrating.  I wasn't emotionally invested in AC35 so no big deal.  ;)

I am under no illusions.  The Green Donut winning the Cup this cycle is wishful thinking, but I can live with a respectable USA team that makes at least the PC semi's.  I hope it happens.

WetHog   :ph34r:

 
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jaysper

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Meh, I enjoyed AC33, and AC34 had its moments, but yeah AC32 was especially frustrating.  I wasn't emotionally invested in AC35 so no big deal.  ;)

I am under no illusions.  The Green Donut winning the Cup this cycle is wishful thinking, but I can live with a respectable USA team that makes at least the PC semi's.  I hope it happens.

WetHog   :ph34r:
Sure, but I was referring to their conduct.

If your sports team behaves in such a manner as you have to pinch your nose to watch them, then it makes supporting them and being emotionally invested in them difficult to imposible.

So, hopefully they conduct themselves with some honour.

 

WetHog

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Sure, but I was referring to their conduct.

If your sports team behaves in such a manner as you have to pinch your nose to watch them, then it makes supporting them and being emotionally invested in them difficult to imposible.

So, hopefully they conduct themselves with some honour.
Oracle didn't get to the pinch your nose level for me until the AC34 wound down to the Cup match but then The Comeback acted like a cheap body spray which hid the bad BO Oracle was developing for me.  After AC34 no amount of smell good could of masked the stench coming off Oracle for me.

With Casper running the show I expect a USA Challenger that will conduct itself with honor, us folk from Annapolis are honorable people, so long as the NYYC lets Casper and his crew do their thing.  That, and hopefully there will at least one more USA Challenger.

WetHog   :ph34r:

 
Meh, I enjoyed AC33, and AC34 had its moments, but yeah AC32 was especially frustrating.  I wasn't emotionally invested in AC35 so no big deal.  ;)

I am under no illusions.  The Green Donut winning the Cup this cycle is wishful thinking, but I can live with a respectable USA team that makes at least the PC semi's.  I hope it happens.

WetHog   :ph34r:
So what are the challenges that team Quantum/BellaMente/NYYC (or whatever their formal name becomes), and how do they overcome them:

1. Great sailors who meet the nationality/residency requirements. It seems probable to me that TH can hire a great team. Unclear to me how a green card or visa holder would get counted in the math of it all, but that seems like a problem that can be overcome. And it sure would be nice if there were a larger cadre of recent Olympic winners to choose from. But this challenge should be surmountable. 

2. High quality, reputable construction facility(s). Not an issue in the US of A. 

3. Year-round practice in-country? Yes, if they need it, no problem.

4. The best designers. Since nationality does not apply to the design team, the best designers are likely to go to the highest bidders. Which brings up the next point:

5. Having enough money. 

So again, the prospect of having a respectable team comes down to money. And I suspect you are right that this round is not about winning for the US team, but rather about laying the groundwork to win next cycle. We will have a major clue as to whether it will be respectable or not when the design team is announced. 

 

WetHog

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So what are the challenges that team Quantum/BellaMente/NYYC (or whatever their formal name becomes), and how do they overcome them:

1. Great sailors who meet the nationality/residency requirements. It seems probable to me that TH can hire a great team. Unclear to me how a green card or visa holder would get counted in the math of it all, but that seems like a problem that can be overcome. And it sure would be nice if there were a larger cadre of recent Olympic winners to choose from. But this challenge should be surmountable. 

2. High quality, reputable construction facility(s). Not an issue in the US of A. 

3. Year-round practice in-country? Yes, if they need it, no problem.

4. The best designers. Since nationality does not apply to the design team, the best designers are likely to go to the highest bidders. Which brings up the next point:

5. Having enough money. 

So again, the prospect of having a respectable team comes down to money. And I suspect you are right that this round is not about winning for the US team, but rather about laying the groundwork to win next cycle. We will have a major clue as to whether it will be respectable or not when the design team is announced. 
Money isn't the only issue.  Being able to use that money efficiently and bring together all aspects of the Challenge into a well oiled machine capable of competing for a place in the Cup match is the tallest order, IMO.  Casper has his work cut out for him.

WetHog   :ph34r:

 

Indio

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I think the NYYC Challenge will be very formidable. The mere fact that two owners have agreed to collaborate for a common target implies they have accepted the likely chain of command and roles separation which will be required to succeed. The common denominator is clearly Hutchinson, and putting him in charge of the sailing operations while presumably the two owners concentrate on funding and talent-scouting, etc should allow Hutch to concentrate on assembling a sailing team and preparing them for the Challenge. This Challenge won't be doing sausage sizzles to raise funds - they'll buy the entire herd and ranch!!

Ten years stewing on the docks means the NYYC Challenge has a lot of dry powder for AC36. I would suggest that when it became apparent that ETNZ was going to yank the Cup from the cheaters, NYYC would have secured the designer(s) they wanted, while Hutch probably already had sailors he wanted on first-right-of-refusal preliminary agreements. The NYYC should provide a stabilising overwatch to minimise any potential egocentric contretemps.

I would not be at all too unhappy to have NYYC v LR in the CSS Final. I can see NYYC as CoR in AC37 if ETNZ defends successfully in 2021.

 

~Stingray~~

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Money isn't the only issue.  Being able to use that money efficiently and bring together all aspects of the Challenge into a well oiled machine capable of competing for a place in the Cup match is the tallest order, IMO.  Casper has his work cut out for him.

WetHog   :ph34r:
Any guesses on who Casper will go after as AC helmsman candidates?

 

~Stingray~~

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One thing is for sure. It sure as fuck won't be Barker.

Given its a new class of boat, I don't see why they couldn't do what ETNZ did and pick someone young with no previous AC experience.
:)  

Let's see.. 

 
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~HHN92~

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Money isn't the only issue.  Being able to use that money efficiently and bring together all aspects of the Challenge into a well oiled machine capable of competing for a place in the Cup match is the tallest order, IMO.  Casper has his work cut out for him.

WetHog   :ph34r:
The NYYC had a lot of money and were the first team in Freo back in '85, but it did not get them far. It has to be used smartly with innovation and a crew that knows how to use it. Ask LE about that now.

 

jaysper

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The NYYC had a lot of money and were the first team in Freo back in '85, but it did not get them far. It has to be used smartly with innovation and a crew that knows how to use it. Ask LE about that now.
It seems to me that Orifice won in AC34 because they had such a massive advantage by challenging using a multi hull with wing in AC33 and even then, they didn't win by much.

However, roll around AC35 they were thoroughly out thought by ETNZ and it would appear by Artemis also.

So yeah, it seemed that post AC33 that Orifice were on a constant downward trajectory through lack of innovation that only ended up costing them the cup in AC35, but almost cost them it in AC34.

If Lazza decided to take the same team into a challenge in AC36, unless some major change of culture took place, I don't think they would have a reasonable chance at winning the cup.

 

rh3000

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I like Barker, I really do.

But he is dripping in the pungent aroma of failure and if they were to hire him for the boat, I think you could safely rule them out as a competitive challenger.
I don't know... I'd say never count him out until he decides so himself - perhaps he could take the crown from JS as the greatest come-back king... ;-)

He hung in there in the AC50s and the new monos will probably remove the alleged young/reaction advantage making him more competitive again - arguably he's greater prowess in monos, but his sailing in AC34 and AC35 proved he is still reasonably versatile.

Having said that I agree that we won't see him helming, because if he elects to join in, I think he'd want to be off the boat now... or maybe he has one more in him?

 

jaysper

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I don't know... I'd say never count him out until he decides so himself - perhaps he could take the crown from JS as the greatest come-back king... ;-)

He hung in there in the AC50s and the new monos will probably remove the alleged young/reaction advantage making him more competitive again - arguably he's greater prowess in monos, but his sailing in AC34 and AC35 proved he is still reasonably versatile.

Having said that I agree that we won't see him helming, because if he elects to join in, I think he'd want to be off the boat now... or maybe he has one more in him?
Barker is a world class sailor in the sense that there are probably only a few hundred sailors with more talent than him.

But if you are spending $100 Million on a campaign, you are NOT after someone in the top few hundred. You are after someone COMFORTABLY in the top 50.

Burling clearly meets that criteria and likewise Outteridge.

Jimmy? Probably not and Deano definitely not IMO.

 

Sailbydate

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I like Barker, I really do.

But he is dripping in the pungent aroma of failure and if they were to hire him for the boat, I think you could safely rule them out as a competitive challenger.
DB's a bloody solid driver. And if the afterguard are up to it and the designers on the money, my advice would be don't bet against him.

 

~HHN92~

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I like Barker, I really do.

But he is dripping in the pungent aroma of failure and if they were to hire him for the boat, I think you could safely rule them out as a competitive challenger.
TFE's Sailing Illustrated posted a notice that DB is going to drive the Q TP52 next season.

https://www.sailingillustrated.com/single-post/2017/10/18/AC36-One-hears-Dean-Barker-NZL-will-skipper-the-Quantum-TP52-in-next-summers-Super-Series-will-Deano-skipper-NYYCs-2021-challenger

 
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