Team NYYC

Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

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SimonN said:
But what's so strange about what NYYC says is that they are incorrectly likening the rumour to the 2 DoG matches there have been, even though it is not like them and is like the 19 single challenger mutual consent matches that NYYC ran. I expect people on here to get confused between the differences between the 2 but the NYYC? That's almost unbelievable and shows how far out of touch they must be.
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What is not strange is that you are not properly informed.

"The New York Yacht Club will not support a Deed of Gift match or an America's Cup competition that...is effectively open to only the defender and Challenger of Record."

 
terrafirma

terrafirma

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Sadly for Americans who are passionate about the "Americas Cup" that America as a country are unlikely to ever win the Cup for a long time. They made it very hard for the challengers in so many ways for over 100 years until Australia came along and broke the stranglehold. And now we have one of the smallest countries in the world appear seemingly unbeatable. I wonder, we will see America challenge again after some would review as a disastrous campaign? And now I believe we may have Country of citizenship what does America have in it's wardrobe to be a threat once again?

 
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Sailbydate

Sailbydate

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Tornado-Cat said:
What is not strange is that you are not properly informed.

"The New York Yacht Club will not support a Deed of Gift match or an America's Cup competition that...is effectively open to only the defender and Challenger of Record."
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Whether they support it or not is irrelevant - since they are powerless to prevent it, using the provisions in the DoG. An IoW challenge would be DoG compliant.

 
C

classfve

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Even though it’s months before anyone will know for sure, presuming that there is an attempt to turn AC37 into a one on one game, for NYYC, Oracle (only because they like doing these kinds of things) or anyone else that might want to play the next time around (and has the resources to approach the NYSC), the functional phrasing of the DOG is this: “Any organized Yacht Club.......SHALL ALWAYS be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup...” (Emphasis mine).  Kearney could walk into court and say “my guy wants to sail in AC37.  The Deed says he shall always have the right to sail and RNZYS/INEOS says he can’t.  We would like to have our ticket punched.”  Seems about as equally compelling as the CNEV case.  Assuming that if more than one party wanted to sail in AC37, in no way is a one on one match DOG compliant.

 
Sailbydate

Sailbydate

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classfve said:
Even though it’s months before anyone will know for sure, presuming that there is an attempt to turn AC37 into a one on one game, for NYYC, Oracle (only because they like doing these kinds of things) or anyone else that might want to play the next time around (and has the resources to approach the NYSC), the functional phrasing of the DOG is this: “Any organized Yacht Club.......SHALL ALWAYS be entitled to the right of sailing a match of this Cup...” (Emphasis mine).  Kearney could walk into court and say “my guy wants to sail in AC37.  The Deed says he shall always have the right to sail and RNZYS/INEOS says he can’t.  We would like to have our ticket punched.”  Seems about as equally compelling as the CNEV case.  Assuming that if more than one party wanted to sail in AC37, in no way is a one on one match DOG compliant.
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The Deed does not specify a particular challenge (eg: AC37) where any qualifying club must be allowed to participate. But any qualifying club is always entitled to challenge. But they must wait their turn if a challenge has already been accepted (eg AC38).

 
The_Alchemist

The_Alchemist

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NZK said:
Apparently Jimmy has US citizenship and it's his primary residence so he should qualify - bigger question is whether they could offer him enough to leave Prada? My gut says no....  
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I think it is setting up for Jimmy to be at the helm for the next American challenge.  Jimmy is committed to helm the US entry in SailGp this year.  Prada has experience at helm from this year and do not need him for the next cup.

 
C

classfve

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11 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:
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Don’t know if I’d agree with that.  It seems to maybe tie in with the “hip pocket challenge” idea.  Line enough of these up ahead of time and you’d be standing in line forever.  It’s the whole concept of “unfair dealing”.  The “hip pocket challenge” thing is something that I think will have to be dealt with in the future.  Hopefully not litigated but who knows.

 
EYESAILOR

EYESAILOR

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terrafirma said:
 what does America have in it's wardrobe to be a threat once again?
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Money.

Lots and lots of it.

Innovation

Lots and lots of it

Technology

lots and lots of it

Experienced and talented AC helms and tacticians?  Not so much. But refer to #1 above and  the fast track citizenship process for athletes

 
jaysper

jaysper

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EYESAILOR said:
Money.

Lots and lots of it.

Innovation

Lots and lots of it

Technology

lots and lots of it

Experienced and talented AC helms and tacticians?  Not so much. But refer to #1 above and  the fast track citizenship process for athletes
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Whilst I absolutely don't agree with Terrafirma's outlook on the US' chances in the cup, just a couple of points:

* Too late to fast track the citizenship under the proposed nationality rules.

* Whilst American Magic have shown up with some cash, I'm not sure if there are any other money belts out there with sufficient passion for yachting to stump up a spare $100 Million

 
strider470

strider470

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jaysper said:
Whilst I absolutely don't agree with Terrafirma's outlook on the US' chances in the cup, just a couple of points:

* Too late to fast track the citizenship under the proposed nationality rules.

* Whilst American Magic have shown up with some cash, I'm not sure if there are any other money belts out there with sufficient passion for yachting to stump up a spare $100 Million
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Maybe Ratcliffe could fund a third team then ;)

 
Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

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Sailbydate said:
Whether they support it or not is irrelevant - since they are powerless to prevent it, using the provisions in the DoG. An IoW challenge would be DoG compliant.
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Isn't the first AC where a hip pocket prevents other YCs to sail ? What if the were testing this concept to the court ?

 
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MaxHugen

MaxHugen

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jaysper said:
Only seems to work for WindBlows and I try to keep my WindBlows machine free from anything sketchy cos its where I do a lot of work.

Any chance of a copy & paste?
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Found it...

American Magic skipper and CEO Terry Hutchinson thinks a Deed of Gift challenge in the United Kingdom next year for the 37th America's Cup would be a "massive step backwards" for the competition.

It's understood IneosTeam UK owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe and Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton are entertaining the idea of a Deed of Gift challenge on the Isle of Wight in 18 months with a guarantee that whoever wins would then defend the Cup in Auckland in 2024.

That would generate European time zone exposure for the AC75s and it's also thought financial security for Team New Zealand, by effectively selling the Cup venue to the UK billionaire.

On the eve of his departure to his home in Annapolis, Maryland, after nine months in Auckland, Hutchinson has raised concerns about the idea.

"From a sporting perspective [a Deed of Gift match] would be disappointing and a regatta in England in 18 months is a logistical challenge," Hutchinson told the Herald.

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American Magic skipper Terry Hutchinson. Photo / Photosport
Hutchinson felt the New York Yacht Club would be keen to continue with the American Magic programme even if the Cup went in the direction of a match between the Challenger of Record and the defender in the UK next year.

"If the competition goes that way then it's disappointing, but that's out of our control and that's the America's Cup - you have to look at it with all the optics of it. If it went in that direction you have to see what the landscape is for what is being proposed [in Auckland] in 2024 and make a decision on the viability to win the regatta."

However Hutchinson is sceptical about the viability of such a regatta, saying it would be "fraught with logistical challenges".

"You are talking about a boat that is 80,000 man hours to build," Hutchinson said. "Both teams have to go back to England and set up the infrastructure they have to build the boats, they have to sea-trial the boats and go through all that. We know that if its 18 months from today you have three more months of fluff because there is still negotiations going on between Team NZ and the Government here, nothing is set in stone and the only thing that is happening is the time gets shortened."

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Team New Zealand and American Magic in action during a practice session earlier this year. Photo / Photosport
Hutchinson leaves New Zealand with mixed feelings. The pain of American Magic's catastrophic capsize still burns and there is a genuine feeling of 'what if?' Hutchinson firmly believes Patriot was the best boat among the challengers, but the fact the boat only raced eight times has left Hutchinson with a sense of unfinished business.



"Given the opportunity we would definitely want to come back. It's one of those situations where if it doesn't kill you it's only going to make you stronger."




One of the three team principals, Doug DeVos is still holidaying in New Zealand with his family and is thought to be blown away by the AC75s and Hutchinson is optimistic DeVos, and fellow team principals Hap Fauth and Roger Penske, will be keen for another crack.

"I'm really confident they want to be involved. When we went into the 36th America's Cup our eyes were open, but now they are more open to the whole picture. As a team we did a really good job navigating through the challenges we had. The mistake would be not to build on those things we did well and at the same thing not to learn from the things we did poorly, so it's definitely unfinished business."

Hutchinson, who was the public face of American Magic for weeks after their on-water disaster, looks back on his time in Auckland with tremendous gratitude.

"Our time in New Zealand has been phenomenal when you think about what has been going on in the world. We have been incredibly fortunate to be here. Obviously the regatta did not go anywhere near how we planned, and I think in retrospect we had planned for a lot of things to happen but the one thing we didn't plan for is capsizing and putting a hole in the boat. In saying that I think the way our team responded to the situation was phenomenal and spoke volumes about the people inside and spoke volumes about our competitors and how they helped us out to get back on the water."

For the most part Hutchinson is in favour of the new class rules that have been drawn up between Team New Zealand and Ineos Team UK. He says the move to make 100 per cent of the sailing team passport holders of the country they represent or having been resident there for the past three years is "a logical progression for the competition".

"The original guiding principle of the Deed of Gift was this competition amongst nations and what has happened there is they've turned the sporting side back to a competition between nations. It's hard not to favour that. That's a great opportunity from a US sailing perspective to develop talent and continue to showcase our sailors."

 
rh3000

rh3000

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The_Alchemist said:
I think it is setting up for Jimmy to be at the helm for the next American challenge.  Jimmy is committed to helm the US entry in SailGp this year.  Prada has experience at helm from this year and do not need him for the next cup.
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I don't think the US-ficiation of Jimmy's SGP activity means much about national preference in AC, it's basically a removable decal on a random AC50 as far as he is concerned.

He appears to be quite smitten with his Italian relationship... might have been the pinot kicking in tho...

 
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