Team NYYC

accnick

Super Anarchist
3,515
2,510
Did they actually have merch? If so, absolutely!

And if you can find any merch from 1995 (?) Russian Challenge when they tried to build a timber IACC you are RICH!  :lol:
The timber boat was from Yugoslavia, and was never finished. The Russian boats were both carbon.

One was built in an old missile factory, and had the most beautiful titanium mast fittings I had ever seen, although they were on an agricultural, overweight carbon mast. At one point, memorabilia from the Russian team representing the Leningrad Yacht Club was available (It was still called Leningrad Yacht Club in 1992, not St. Petersburg Yacht Club).

I had one of their team jackets, which was cool. Unfortunately, I gave it to to my rabidly anti-Communist brother-in-law as a joke. I suspect he burned it. Wish I had it now!

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
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Wellington
The timber boat was from Yugoslavia, and was never finished. The Russian boats were both carbon.

One was built in an old missile factory, and had the most beautiful titanium mast fittings I had ever seen, although they were on an agricultural, overweight carbon mast. At one point, memorabilia from the Russian team representing the Leningrad Yacht Club was available (It was still called Leningrad Yacht Club in 1992, not St. Petersburg Yacht Club).

I had one of their team jackets, which was cool. Unfortunately, I gave it to to my rabidly anti-Communist brother-in-law as a joke. I suspect he burned it. Wish I had it now!
Ah! Thanks for the correction.

I have no problem with people being rabidly anti-communist, but to the point of burning a nice jacket? Pfft!

 

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,599
1,336
Melbourne
From that video, “it feels like the NYYC will come back”.  Still some wiggle room in that quote. 

I hope they come back for my sake.  I just dropped $30 on another AM hat and it will make it easier to absorb my wife’s wrath when she finds out.

WetHog   :ph34r:
You're not thinking laterally Hoggie. If they quit, it becomes more collectibl
The fact that the boats are staying there is a good sign. I think Terry knows more but is doing the right thing until there is some certainty around the next event? 

 

jaysper

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The fact that the boats are staying there is a good sign. I think Terry knows more but is doing the right thing until there is some certainty around the next event? 
I think on the whole they were a good team. I would even go so far as to say that without the accident, their boat might have been faster than LR.

I don't think they would have beaten LR however as Deano and Hutch were obvious weaknesses IMO and at the pointy end of the regatta, Francesco and Jimmy would have put them to the sword.

 

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
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USA
I think on the whole they were a good team. I would even go so far as to say that without the accident, their boat might have been faster than LR.

I don't think they would have beaten LR however as Deano and Hutch were obvious weaknesses IMO and at the pointy end of the regatta, Francesco and Jimmy would have put them to the sword.
You never know.  I do think AM was a faster boat and NZ eventually beat LR on speed, tend to think AM would have picked up the pace if they had not crashed.

 

The_Alchemist

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USA
Ok, so I'm not sure if this is a troll or not since some of this is wrong and some is right. But here goes my view.

1. NZ didn't have 1 year's advantage - more like 6 months but less over Prada.

2. I'm not sure why it is a ransom or fictitious. We don't know if it will go ahead for sure as it is one of many options floated (I for one consider it more of a bargaining chip against the Government, but fuck knows). If anyone pays for it to be held in the UK, I don't understand how it could be considered ransom since it is a willing exchange of money for hosting rights which is what happens all the time.

3. I agree that NZ's days in the cup are numbered (shrug). However, I don't see their actions as being afraid, but rather trying to leverage (VERY HARD) their position as cup holder for cash.

4. So I'm not sure that ETNZ have EVERY been selected as the Challenger of Record, but yes I agree that they have not showered themselves in glory.

5. If ETNZ and INEOS reach an agreement to host the subsequent AC in Auckland, as porthos has pointed out it will be unenforceable but will surely be backed up with a contract that carries HEAVY financial penalties (think $100 Million PLUS) for non-performance.
Those are fair answers.  

1) We really do not know how much of a lead NZ had because they had been working on the concept for quite a while before it was disclosed to the other challengers.  We also had the foil arm problems that delayed teams like AM from launching for months.  No real world validation of the brand new simulation models is very significant.

2) I am being a little harsh because of my disdain for a 1:1 match.  It just violates the current principles of the AM and the only reason you would do that is to raise money or to artificially hang onto the cup as long as possible.  Neither shows good sportsmanship and indicates some "fear" of participating in a cup without those unprecedented restrictions.  

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
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Wellington
You never know.  I do think AM was a faster boat and NZ eventually beat LR on speed, tend to think AM would have picked up the pace if they had not crashed.
Looking at Deanos past performances and how he and Hutch performed as a team in Auckland, do you HONESTLY think they could have won? I don't.

I am on record here in about October or November picking them as the challengers but after their appalling tactical decision making, it became obvious to me that a good boat was being let down by poor crew.

 

jaysper

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Wellington
Those are fair answers.  

1) We really do not know how much of a lead NZ had because they had been working on the concept for quite a while before it was disclosed to the other challengers.  We also had the foil arm problems that delayed teams like AM from launching for months.  No real world validation of the brand new simulation models is very significant.

2) I am being a little harsh because of my disdain for a 1:1 match.  It just violates the current principles of the AM and the only reason you would do that is to raise money or to artificially hang onto the cup as long as possible.  Neither shows good sportsmanship and indicates some "fear" of participating in a cup without those unprecedented restrictions.  
I personally think the whole Isle if Wight and 1:1 is a negotiating ploy with the government.

However you don't need to look far on these boards to see how disappointed I am with their behaviour generally and in particular the suggestion that they want to impose the class of boat for the subsequent cup cycle.

 

idontwan2know

Super Anarchist
3,083
228
Have we heard more about potential rudder issues on Patriot?

Deano certainly looked like he was hanging on for dear life and being shaken to death by the wheel.

 

Zaal

Anarchist
515
699
Italy
From what I understood Max Sirena, in a recent interview, told that TH will be again in charge, and that AM is ready to start. It will be interesting to see if he'll keep DB at the helm, or maybe put there PG. 

I'm expecting also a great synergy between AM and the Usa Olympic sailing team, now led by Paul Cayard.  

 

mako23

Super Anarchist
1,837
685
Auckland
If they rumours are true and AM are coming back, all I can say is that they will be gladly accepted back here in NZ.  TH struck me as a really decent guy and the whole crew conducted themselves well. They were good ambassadors for the AC. 
I do feel that they were also good team that suffered a lot of bad luck. Their boat was good, but hindered by some sort of balance issue that lead to rudder shaking. 
As for Deano and TH being on the boat in the next AC, that is a question that AM need to answer. 
 

What I’d love to see is the DOG matched canned and everyone come back in 2003 with one new boat each

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
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Wellington
From what I understood Max Sirena, in a recent interview, told that TH will be again in charge, and that AM is ready to start. It will be interesting to see if he'll keep DB at the helm, or maybe put there PG. 

I'm expecting also a great synergy between AM and the Usa Olympic sailing team, now led by Paul Cayard.  
Deano needs to realize what he couldn't after San Francisco, which is that he no longer belongs on an AC boat in any capacity. Hutch too, although Hutch is clearly more valuable in a shore role than Deano is.

 

Stingray~

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Seems to me that the proposed one-on-one ‘AC37’ option is fraught with potential problems and uncertainty, legal and otherwise. By far the safest, smartest move is to hold a multi-Chall event in Auckland, in 2024.

If Grant can’t make Auckland or the Govt pay for more than some ‘running the event fee’ (which he did agree to last time), well then he simply needs to go get his team campaign funding from elsewhere, again.

 
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Tornado-Cat

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I think an AC37 next year around Isle of Wight would be awsome, but everybody should be invited and the Deed should be respected, which means excluding the obligation to sign an AC38 protocol or any kind of binding.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
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Wellington
I think an AC37 next year around Isle of Wight would be awsome, but everybody should be invited and the Deed should be respected, which means excluding the obligation to sign an AC38 protocol or any kind of binding.
Yep, especially the deed being respected part. Anything else is disgraceful.

 

EYESAILOR

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I think an AC37 next year around Isle of Wight would be awsome, but everybody should be invited and the Deed should be respected, which means excluding the obligation to sign an AC38 protocol or any kind of binding.
+1  I think an AC 37 in 2022 hosted at the site of the original race would be great.

But where we differ is that I think there should be a plan for 2024.  New teams will never be competitive for a 2022 event announced this year and nor will they be competitive for a 2024 event announced late in 2022. We want new teams to contemplate challenging for the AC in 2024.

I realize the ambiguous language of the DoG puts some hurdles in the way. However if there is a 2022 event then smart people sharing the same goals should be able to overcome that hurdle. We've talked about side agreements etc. The level of debate has highlighted some of the ambiguities of a century old deed being held up to a modern cup....I think and hope the ambiguities can be overcome. If the cannot, then I think a 2024 event announced late in 2022 will not be good for growing the cup and it would be better to just wait.  

Again, I prefer that the problems in the D0G can be overcome and the participants in 2022 could announce a 2024 class of yacht, then (and only then) it would be very exciting to look foward to seeing the 75' beasts sooner than 2024.

 

Tornado-Cat

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+1  I think an AC 37 in 2022 hosted at the site of the original race would be great.

But where we differ is that I think there should be a plan for 2024.  New teams will never be competitive for a 2022 event announced this year and nor will they be competitive for a 2024 event announced late in 2022. We want new teams to contemplate challenging for the AC in 2024.

I realize the ambiguous language of the DoG puts some hurdles in the way. However if there is a 2022 event then smart people sharing the same goals should be able to overcome that hurdle. We've talked about side agreements etc. The level of debate has highlighted some of the ambiguities of a century old deed being held up to a modern cup....I think and hope the ambiguities can be overcome. If the cannot, then I think a 2024 event announced late in 2022 will not be good for growing the cup and it would be better to just wait.  

Again, I prefer that the problems in the D0G can be overcome and the participants in 2022 could announce a 2024 class of yacht, then (and only then) it would be very exciting to look foward to seeing the 75' beasts sooner than 2024.
I understand your objective but I think we can fullfill it by respecting the Deed.

If you have a 2022 event open to everybody we will have the present teams + new ones buying the old B1 boats or copying the B2s. I can even see Cammas doing it, and the event in UK diminishes transport costs. Obviously their participation is for training and prepare for AC38.

Then let's allow the AC37 winner to chose the boat, it could be an improved AC75 or a multi. And that would be for the best of the AC event, if we chose now the boat for AC38 it could be obsolete in 2024.

Other possibility could be pre CSS in 2022 but it would not be as attractive.

 
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EYESAILOR

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I understand your objective but I think we can fullfill it by respecting the Deed.

If you have a 2022 event open to everybody we will have the present teams + new ones buying the old B1 boats or copying the B2s. I can even see Cammas doing it, and the event in UK diminishes transport costs. Obviously their participation is for training and prepare for AC38.

Then let's allow the AC37 winner to chose the boat, it could be an improved AC75 or a multi, or a traditional keel boat ranging from 40' to 90' . And that would be for the best of the AC event, if we chose now the boat for AC38 it could be obsolete in 2024 (which is why serious new challenges may not want to commit to a program which will be obsolete in 15 months time ).

Other possibility could be pre CSS in 2022 but it would not be as attractive.


Unless there is a commitment to a class/design in 2024, then I think an event in 2022 is not going to attract new entrants for 2022 or 2024.

Nobody wants to embark on a serious 2+ year development plan in a class which might be obsolete in 15 months time

You can tell the new entrants that you cannot consider a challenge for 2024 until 2022. They will shrug. They are not asking you to consider their challenge or anyone else's challenge but merely specify the class of boat that the defender and all challengers have agreed to for 2024.  If the lawyers cant figure out how to draft such a side agreement, then either wait to 2024 or acknowledge the hurdle for new teams

 




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