Team NYYC

Team_GBR

Super Anarchist
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The Medal Race
I hope Onorato is back challenging for the Cup simply because he is just the right guy to stir up the drama Clean has suggested would develop with 2 Italian challenges.  And his AC32 boats looked cool.

WetHog   :ph34r:
He might be held in high regard by some, but after recent events, many involved with the J70 fleet consider Onorato to be a cheat, liar and unwanted trouble maker. There is still a potential Rule 69 against him for his behaviour and also a potential law case for deformation by Onorato. Overall, assuming the reports were true, he showed himself to be a very nasty bit of work.

 

bostonspider

Member
217
0
looking at the NYYC challenge, Hap Fauth surely is not early as ostentatiously wealthy as the Devos or any of the Silicon Valley boys.. 

His family yacht, Whisper

WHISPER_PG_PHOTO_7.jpg


His racing yacht, Bella Mente

Bella-8320-lg.jpg


His little catboat and summer cottage in the background

13528804_10154231011985758_1447961899980747761_n.jpg


 

~Stingray~~

Super Anarchist
22,861
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at http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup---New-York-Yacht-Club-makes-a-smart-early-move/157816

(.......)

For New York Yacht Club and BMQRA, there was no point concealing their hand until January 2018. They are better to get their intentions out there and start attracting and signing the pick of available US America's Cup team talent.

The two other teams who have indicated to Team New Zealand that they will be entering, Land Rover BAR (GBR) and Groupama Team France (FRA) don't have the same issues.

 
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Demon Banshee

New member
38
0
Toronto
Right. At this point, talk is (relatively) cheap. There's no boat design brief to work off of, there's some uncertainty as to the location and therefore date of the match, there are a lot of details to be filled in on the "Prada Cup," and most importantly the entry fee is not yet due. At most, the expense is in nailing down lead talent. One could probably spend no more than $1,000,000 between now and Christmas and not fall (any further) behind the curve. 

When the dollars get real, expect some to beg off. I put Camas in that group. Probably Alinghi too. 

The real question will be, of the remaining interested teams, who can raise the necessary funds to win, and who can't. And of those who can't, who will go ahead with the campaign just to stay in the game (LRBAR maybe) and who might stay in recognizing that this round is just for learning more and preparing for the next. 

I hate to be Nelly Negative, but didn't Dalton say he thinks it will take $150 million for a winning campaign in his interview with Clean? That's a shitload of money. Not even the NYYC group is guaranteed of getting there. 
With the nationality rules the way they are...it will be expensive. Paying for competitors to move etc., paying for competitors to commit to a long campaign, then just the fact NZ is about as far away as you can get for most of the challengers.

I see less teams entering (part of the def strategy? less is better for them)

The ones who do take part will need a significant war chest backed by -i can only assume- a VERY healthy ego and net worth of some individual.

 

~Stingray~~

Super Anarchist
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The ones who do take part will need a significant war chest backed by -i can only assume- a VERY healthy ego and net worth of some individual.
It's a bit disconcerting that DeVos even needed Fauth's help but perhaps it is for reasons beyond financial, like for the agreement helping to ease the sharing of Hutch and other sailing/design/admin talent.

The big old granddaddy of eye-watering sailing-interested wealth, by orders of magnitude, is the Larry with an E... precedeeded by about 60 B's. But for better or worse the comments made by RC today suggest RC has not been tapped yet, which strongly suggests LE has lost interest - instead of upping his interest three-fold as he could so easily have decided, on basically a just a whim. No reason at all for LE to go light this time, if he was 'revenge' minded.

Between ETNZ with their already-established systems and tech know-how and home-field lower costs and Emirates backing and guaranteed Match presence etc, versus Luna Rossa, BMQ and BAR who have little to none of any of that, it still looks reasonably safe so far for ETNZ.

So, agreed.. No really big shark in this yet unless EB gets all excited about his chances or some Russian chooses to unload a really big one on it.

 
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~Stingray~~

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Good prediction, since DC placed 14/21 in the 2017 6mR Worlds 2017 this September in Vancouver, BC, and DNF the regatta. He may have met his (ageing) Waterloo.
I happened to listen to a two-part podcast by DC yesterday about that event, it was kinda fun and interesting. Long story short, he had plenty of excuses - as he said with humor - for the result. A 70 yr old boat, and the fact the mast broke mid-regatta among them. His description of riding down to the boat on the dock using the King of Spain's golf cart was amusing too.

But agreed; we are not going back to AC helms from 4 effing decades ago! 

 
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~Stingray~~

Super Anarchist
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Trump endorsed Conner's book, DeVos's relation is Betsy DeVos, who uttered such revealing lineage in "The New Yorker" today: DeVos Defends Trump: “Would a Moron Hire Me?”

It's easy to switch allegiances for thinking sailors.

View attachment 246543
The half-hull in that photo behind DC may be the same one as is on the wall in the Moron Office in Trump Tower. Interesting.

Trump had a casino north somewhere in NJ at the time (edit: probably financed by loan sharks in the Kremlin ;)  ) with hopes of getting an AC Defense hosted at that venue, and he paid for the NY ticker-tape parade to draw attention to the AC and to DC's '87 Fremantle win-back, for that hoped-for promotional casino venue reason. 

 
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Mr. Squirrel

Super Anarchist
So by all means dont let facts get in the way of your fucking whining, but in case anyone gives a shit

Dick DeVos is married to Betsy.

Doug DeVos is involved with Quantum Sails and the NYYC AC Challenge.  Dick <> Doug.

And take your fucking whining about Trump to PA.

Muppets....
MS

 

~Stingray~~

Super Anarchist
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~Stingray~~

Super Anarchist
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And we know what happened in Atlantic City. Also history, like the AC races of decades ago.
Billions in debt and bankruptcies, in Atlantic City. US-based banks stopped lending money to the Trumpster starting soon after, he resorted to being in the Hok to other countries beginning around then.

That DC book-cover photo may be a touch PA but there's plenty that's AC and about NY and about AC history about it too, let alone the rest..

 
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~HHN92~

Super Anarchist
5,137
58
The half-hull in that photo behind DC may be the same one as is on the wall in the Moron Office in Trump Tower. Interesting.

Trump had a casino north somewhere in NJ at the time (edit: probably financed by loan sharks in the Kremlin ;)  ) with hopes of getting an AC Defense hosted at that venue, and he paid for the NY ticker-tape parade to draw attention to the AC and to DC's '87 Fremantle win-back, for that hoped-for promotional casino venue reason. 
To clear some air here, DC went to Trump looking for backing, even proposing to name the boat 'Trump Card' and holding some races in Atlantic City, as they were getting pretty desperate for funding. He brought the model to Trump as part of his pitch and apparently he thought it was a gift from DC. He did not support the effort but did organize and fund the ticker-tape parade in NY. It was in DC's book 'Comeback' where he describes the whirlwind trip back from Freo to SD, to NY. He was given the big fur coat he wore during the parade from a supporter of the team, after noting how he really liked it, before the series. They guy told him that you win the Cup you get the coat. Promise fulfilled for the parade.

 
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WetHog

Super Anarchist
8,597
406
Annapolis, MD USA
He might be held in high regard by some, but after recent events, many involved with the J70 fleet consider Onorato to be a cheat, liar and unwanted trouble maker. There is still a potential Rule 69 against him for his behaviour and also a potential law case for deformation by Onorato. Overall, assuming the reports were true, he showed himself to be a very nasty bit of work.
Let me be clear, I want him to enter because he is an "un-wanted trouble maker" and his AC32 boats looked cool.  Thats it.  

I like fun AC drama.  

WetHog   :ph34r:

 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
16,171
1,225
South Coast, UK
Let me be clear, I want him to enter because he is an "un-wanted trouble maker" and his AC32 boats looked cool.  Thats it.  

I like fun AC drama.  

WetHog   :ph34r:
I don't know Hog,there are already two challengers to whom I can only wish doom and unmitigated failure. Not sure I could handle a third.

 

Team_GBR

Super Anarchist
1,025
29
The Medal Race
The J70 affair is very much a he said/she said scenario.  Here's Onorato's view FWIW:

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/AUDI-J70-WORLD-CHAMPIONSHIP.pdf
No its'not a he said/she said at all. Go have a look at the thread that covers this matter. I don't have any skin in the game, no affinity in any way and I was a fan of Onorato and his team. From all i have been told and have read, what I believe is that the letter is littered with falsehoods. He launches a personal attack against the organising club's commodore who he has a long standing personal vendetta against even though he had nothing to do with the decisions that went against Onorato. Those decisions were not made by the yacht club but by an independent organising committee and by an IJ. At the heart of the whole thing is the simple fact that Onorato spent a shed load of money getting his son's boat illegally modified, cried when he got caught out. It left the J70 fleet hoping never to see him again.

The personal attack in the last 2 paragraphs could well lead to both a deformation law suit and a rule 69 investigation against Onorato. You simply cannot launch a scathing personal attack on the commodore of an organising yacht club like that. Those last paragraphs have nothing to do with the matter at all.What Onorato is trying to do is to publicly humiliate somebody he has a problem with by raising things that are totally unconnected to the event, yacht club or the J70 class. Even if the allegations made earlier in the letter were true, the last bit totally destroys all credibility. What it really achieves is that it shows everybody what a thoroughly nasty man Onorato is and there is no place in sailing for that sort of thing.

 

Barnyb

Super Anarchist
3,124
622
New Zealand
Remember the Dalton clause has gone so we need all the scoundrels, clowns, idiots, cheap talkers, and controversial players as possible. This is the AC after all, where most of the action takes place off the water between people with ego's too big, standing on their wallets, to prove that they have the biggest boom!

Bring it on!

There ain't no circus without elephants and clowns!

 
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