Team Vestas grounded

WetHog

Super Anarchist
8,597
406
Annapolis, MD USA
Is this Vor a joke? I find it hard to believe a team could run aground in this day and age. At least all the boats didn't run aground at the same time.
It happened before, not to long ago:

wloak3.jpg


WetHog :ph34r:

 
I'm saddened to read about Vestas' grounding and glad the crew is ok. I hope they can get the boat off the reef at least mostly in in one piece.

It's interesting that the satellite imagery and GPS track data seem to agree perfectly but many of you are speculating that the charts may be way off. Pardon my ignorance, but are shoreline locations checked against satellite imagery when making modern charts? Also, does anyone have the ability to plot the charted location of this atoll against Vestas' GPS location?

It seems like this sort of speculation could be quickly resolved. The GPS location plotted on Google Earth looks to be right on, so either the charts are off or they aren't.

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
2,988
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Shanghai, China
:) It doesn't really matter what Google Earth et al say if it all relates back to a Royal Navy Lt in 1846 trying to get an accurate sextant reading in an open boat having been rowed across the reef from the west becasue the seaward appraoch was too dangerous because of the swell. Then even a slight delay in signalling between the open boat and the timekeeper on the mother ship and it is easy tohave errors of many miles. Those are position inaccuracies that are likely still the reference to this day because it is not commercially viable to go out and survey anything more accurate or up to date.

I have taken sextant readings on a Royal Navy warship IN CALM WEATHER and it is not always the simplest of things.

It (potentially) doesn't really matter, in this instance, that GPS is typically 2m accurate.

If your GPS tells you that you will miss the middle of an island 3 miles off your track and the data is 3 miles out - you will hit it slap bang in the middle - give or take 2m.

Still nothing to beat the Mk 1 eyeball and they only work half the time (think about it) - this did happen in the dark I understand and that side of the reef is very steep too according to both the chart and the pilot.

SS

 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
45,204
3,785
Not here
Is this Vor a joke? I find it hard to believe a team could run aground in this day and age. At least all the boats didn't run aground at the same time.
It happened before, not to long ago:

wloak3.jpg


WetHog :ph34r:
Mapfree crew would recognize that photo.
i'm guessing there are a couple of Brunel crew who would too. All that said, it didn't prevent Bouwe or SiFi from getting another ride...

here's Alvimedica on the line with VEstas:


 
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0
No getting around this is horrible and tragic. Also no getting around it was avoidable human error. No legitimate excuse and I'm sure the captain and navigator know that and will be the first to say that. The exact mechanism of failure and/or who specifically is at fault should wait official inquiry.

Thank God no one was hurt or killed. It is only a yacht.

 
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sfsailing15

New member
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0
No shit Zen. I'll wait to find out what really happened before I throw the crew under the bus. A bunch of newbie cock holsters passing judgment before the facts. Try taking your fucking dinghy offshore once before you judge.

Fucking tools.
I actually think the surprise probably is more from those of us who have been offshore for longer ocean passages. For many of us, the planning side of a passage (a review of planned routes, danger bearings, flipping through paper charts, keeping a running plot on paper) is actually a much bigger part of things when doing offshore night sailing then when day sailing or weekending in familiar waters. Are many of us sissier than these guys? No question - lifejackets, jacklines etc etc are perhaps more common with us tools and "cock holsters". But ocean experience tends to make you a tiny bit paranoid, especially if squally / night / shorthanded on deck etc. .

After they are off safe I'm looking forward to hearing the story.

 

estarzinger

Super Anarchist
7,478
877
This screen shot does suggest the charts they had were 'accurate enough' - (I have boxed in red Vestas's SART position):

aground.jpg

Note: this is Adriana running - is probably a C-Map max wide vector chart

 
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Expedition

Member
317
14
This screen shot does suggest the charts they had were 'accurate enough' - (I have boxed in red Vestas's SART position):

attachicon.gif
aground.jpg

Note: this is Adriana running - is probably a C-Map max wide vector chart
Actually, it is Expedition, not adrena

Yes, they are C-Map MAX charts.

It is interesting to look at. Will has been very busy with dividers measuring distances everywhere.

 
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gottajiboom

New member
2
0
Glad everyone is ok. My brother and I can navigate the Maine Coast, half in the bag, in the dark with fog. Just a tragedy to think about a boat that beautiful running aground. Did they....use the reef as a way-point?? Turkeys!

 

Go Left

Super Anarchist
4,602
223
Seattle
Glad everyone is ok. My brother and I can navigate the Maine Coast, half in the bag, in the dark with fog. Just a tragedy to think about a boat that beautiful running aground. Did they....use the reef as a way-point?? Turkeys!
So, all we learn from this post is to be more careful whenever you and your brother have left the dock. Thanks for the heads up.

Are you related to Deep C? Just trolling for amusement?

 

gottajiboom

New member
2
0
Glad everyone is ok. My brother and I can navigate the Maine Coast, half in the bag, in the dark with fog. Just a tragedy to think about a boat that beautiful running aground. Did they....use the reef as a way-point?? Turkeys!
So, all we learn from this post is to be more careful whenever you and your brother have left the dock. Thanks for the heads up.

Are you related to Deep C? Just trolling for amusement?
Haha. no not related to Deep C that I know of.

Trolling indeed, however I am fascinated by the caliber (ahem) of this race and have a genuine interest in these boats and the above deck technology - maybe they don't use way-points, I don't know? At any rate, what a shame...

 

estarzinger

Super Anarchist
7,478
877
Actually, it is Expedition, not adrena

Yes, they are C-Map MAX charts.
Interesting. So, you probably know . . . . how easy is it for these islands to be obscured on the screen either by being zoomed out or by having routing info up?

 
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Here is the roundup on this from the rest of the fleet:

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/8084_Grounded.html

You can see how several of the boats are talking about the zoom factor with the charts:

“We are offshore in the middle of nowhere, and on the chart, if you don’t go on the maximum zoom you can’t see anything.”
Whether there is implication there or not, I don't know. But it's really hard to comprehend this from a pro like Wouter Verbraak.

If you recall, this was apparently the same problem with the guys that sailed into Coronado Island.

Wow.

 
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southerncross

Super Anarchist
10,347
280
It's one thing not to see an island dead smack in the middle of your route but not to know about it and every other island ahead of time is a head scratcher. Even the local PHRH skippers meetings discuss (ad nauseum) the hazards of the course. Seems like the teams simply didn't know about it until they were almost on top of it.

 
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