Team Vestas grounded

[us7070]

in addition to the various course change options, they also had the option of just blowing the sheets, luffing the sails, and coming to a slow stop until they eased their obvious concern, and figured out what was going on.

I don't think I would have been able to do it in that situation - it happened too quickly...and nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

 

[billreilly]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily than to stop it permanently...

 

[couchsurfer]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily then to stop it permanently...

.

....err,,thank you Captain Hindsight

 

[jzk]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily then to stop it permanently...

No doubt. Still would be hard to do. Everyone comes running to see what is going on, and all is fine. "I thought I saw something...."

 

[billreilly]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily then to stop it permanently...

.

....err,,thank you Captain Hindsight

It's not hindsight, it's basic logic... If you see or hear something strange you have to react... How many times have you been sailing along at night when you see or hear something in the water up ahead?... maybe it's a fishing net floating on the surface, or an unlit boat, or even a whale... or in this case breaking waves... Your first reaction has to be to turn the boat either up or down (depending on your wind angle, of course)... It's common sense, really.

 

[Chasm]

in addition to the various course change options, they also had the option of just blowing the sheets, luffing the sails, and coming to a slow stop until they eased their obvious concern, and figured out what was going on.

I don't think I would have been able to do it in that situation - it happened too quickly...and nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It it blindingly obvious from the tracker and all media releases that they had no idea whatsoever that they were in reef county.

I do think that their reaction would have been much different if they had known that reefs were around.

"Huh? Did you hear that too? What could that possible be?" vs.

"Something on port. If thats one of those reefs we are fsked! Port or starboard, decision, now."

 

[Presuming Ed]

They knew it got much shallower than the depth of water they had been in for the previous week. They didn't know it was a reef they couldn't sail over.

 

[couchsurfer]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily then to stop it permanently...

.

....err,,thank you Captain Hindsight

It's not hindsight, it's basic logic... If you see or hear something strange you have to react... How many times have you been sailing along at night when you see or hear something in the water up ahead?... maybe it's a fishing net floating on the surface, or an unlit boat, or even a whale... or in this case breaking waves... Your first reaction has to be to turn the boat either up or down (depending on your wind angle, of course)... It's common sense, really.

.

...by the time the team saw,heard the waves they were most likely in less water than their draft....it was already too late.

 

[billreilly]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily then to stop it permanently...

.

....err,,thank you Captain Hindsight

It's not hindsight, it's basic logic... If you see or hear something strange you have to react... How many times have you been sailing along at night when you see or hear something in the water up ahead?... maybe it's a fishing net floating on the surface, or an unlit boat, or even a whale... or in this case breaking waves... Your first reaction has to be to turn the boat either up or down (depending on your wind angle, of course)... It's common sense, really.

.

...by the time the team saw,heard the waves they were most likely in less water than their draft....it was already too late.

It's never too late... Hesitation is what gets you into trouble in these cases... They could have at least bore away until they knew what was happening.

Neither of us was there so we'll never know, but saying that "they were most likely in less water than their draft" is just guessing on your part... if that's the case then why didn't the keel hit earlier?... if they bore away the keel would have still been canted so they might have been fine.

They had plenty of time to react after the first person noticed something wrong... Looking at the angle of the reef and their heading, a bear away of only 45 degrees might have been enough to miss it.

 

[Your Mom]

Knut's investigation team looks like it going to be headed by Chris Oxenbould - good guy, did a very honest job with the Finder's incident report. Stan will be involved/contribute, but he is tied up short term with the Sydney to Hobart.

waste of money to be honest. It is pretty clear what happen, isn't it?

Not really.

They ended up on the bricks...yes: blindingly obvious.

A human cock up:yep

Why a bunch of talented, respected sailors did so? Not so clear & worth a look.

It's really important to remember that Dongfeng almost did the same thing, and from outward appearances it seems the only difference was that they arrived in daylight. If there's something that several boats are doing procedurally that's leading to a risk of recurrence, they need to figure that out ASAP.

 

[CraftyBob]

in addition to the various course change options, they also had the option of just blowing the sheets, luffing the sails, and coming to a slow stop until they eased their obvious concern, and figured out what was going on.

I don't think I would have been able to do it in that situation - it happened too quickly...and nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It it blindingly obvious from the tracker and all media releases that they had no idea whatsoever that they were in reef county.

I do think that their reaction would have been much different if they had known that reefs were around.

"Huh? Did you hear that too? What could that possible be?" vs.

"Something on port. If thats one of those reefs we are fsked! Port or starboard, decision, now."

What are you talking about Nico is heard on the recent video that "we are sailing over shoals... 40m deep"

 

[couchsurfer]

It's never too late... Hesitation is what gets you into trouble in these cases... They could have at least bore away until they knew what was happening.

Neither of us was there so we'll never know, but saying that "they were most likely in less water than their draft" is just guessing on your part... if that's the case then why didn't the keel hit earlier?... if they bore away the keel would have still been canted so they might have been fine.

They had plenty of time to react after the first person noticed something wrong... Looking at the angle of the reef and their heading, a bear away of only 45 degrees might have been enough to miss it.

 

[CraftyBob]

Looking at the video again, nobody fell forward but sideways almost. The helm who grabbed onto a grinder was thrown to starboard.

 

[couchsurfer]

Looking at the video again, nobody fell forward but sideways almost. The helm who grabbed onto a grinder was thrown to starboard.

 

[billreilly]

It's never too late... Hesitation is what gets you into trouble in these cases... They could have at least bore away until they knew what was happening.

Neither of us was there so we'll never know, but saying that "they were most likely in less water than their draft" is just guessing on your part... if that's the case then why didn't the keel hit earlier?... if they bore away the keel would have still been canted so they might have been fine.

They had plenty of time to react after the first person noticed something wrong... Looking at the angle of the reef and their heading, a bear away of only 45 degrees might have been enough to miss it.

facepalm eduardo.jpg

facepalm eduardo.jpg

facepalm eduardo.jpg

You've obviously never sailed offshore and/or at night, have you?

 

[couchsurfer]

It's never too late... Hesitation is what gets you into trouble in these cases... They could have at least bore away until they knew what was happening.

Neither of us was there so we'll never know, but saying that "they were most likely in less water than their draft" is just guessing on your part... if that's the case then why didn't the keel hit earlier?... if they bore away the keel would have still been canted so they might have been fine.

They had plenty of time to react after the first person noticed something wrong... Looking at the angle of the reef and their heading, a bear away of only 45 degrees might have been enough to miss it.

You've obviously never sailed offshore and/or at night, have you?

 

[southerncross]

Opinions have swung widely, some outrageous and some reasonable and insightful. Both are good in my oppinion. "Banging the corners" with extreme ideas eventually settles into some rational thinking as evidenced above. It's like a concept car. Extreme and impractical but the useful parts are extracted.

It's good to see that some are recognizing this as a team and systems failure rather than the witch hunt it started out as. My exchange with Clean, that so many have quoted, was really just pointing out this fact, that it never is just about one person. There are a litany of breakdowns, that rational minds have pointed to above, that need to be addressed. Why? Because who in the hell ever wants to see see anything like this ever happen again?

In retrospect, I'm not sure I/we should scrutinize what was said in the early days following the accident. The impact and magnitude of these incidents doesnt always sink in right away. There is a period of shock and disbelief. As seen in some of the early videos, I don't think it had sunk in. I can imagine at this point though, in the calm of their hotel rooms and in the middle of the night, the nightmare is sinking in and they are gutted.

I would love to see the triumphant return of Vestas to the race. But make no mistake, as anyone who has been in a major boating accident can attest to, it's traumatic. It fucks you up for a while and you hear and feel impact of the keel in your bones and the splitting of glass (carbon) in your skin for years to follow. It's a sickening feeling and you are changed.

If they do come back, if they all get back on that boat and finish this race, it will be a triumph for everyone on board and one for the VOR history books. It should end this way. Not on the reef.

 

[billreilly]

It's never too late... Hesitation is what gets you into trouble in these cases... They could have at least bore away until they knew what was happening.

Neither of us was there so we'll never know, but saying that "they were most likely in less water than their draft" is just guessing on your part... if that's the case then why didn't the keel hit earlier?... if they bore away the keel would have still been canted so they might have been fine.

They had plenty of time to react after the first person noticed something wrong... Looking at the angle of the reef and their heading, a bear away of only 45 degrees might have been enough to miss it.

You've obviously never sailed offshore and/or at night, have you?

I take that as a "no".

 

[Canal Bottom]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily then to stop it permanently...

No doubt. Still would be hard to do. Everyone comes running to see what is going on, and all is fine. "I thought I saw something...."

It looks appears all on deck saw something. Some with their heads in the boat noted shoals and shallower depth. Others with their head out of the boat noted changes in the water or sea state ahead of them. The helm kept charging ahead, same with at least one trimmer.

While the buck always stops at the skipper who owns any and all the skipper must diligently "inspect what he inspects"

The watch captain somehow failed to maintain situational awareness during his duty cycle. That is a clear dereliction of duty. What lead up to that and how it can be prevented in the future is the responsibility of the board of inquiry.

The skipper did not know where the boat was and where it was going. Guilty

The navigator did not know where the boat was and where it was going. Guilty

The watch captain or officer on duty did not know where the boat was and where it was going. Guilty

The crew on deck sensed danger or a least a changing environment and continued to plow ahead. (Is that an error in basic seamanship?)

 

[billreilly]

nobody wants to stop the boat in a race

It's much better to stop it temporarily then to stop it permanently...

No doubt. Still would be hard to do. Everyone comes running to see what is going on, and all is fine. "I thought I saw something...."

It looks appears all on deck saw something. Some with their heads in the boat noted shoals and shallower depth. Others with their head out of the boat noted changes in the water or sea state ahead of them. The helm kept charging ahead, same with at least one trimmer.

While the buck always stops at the skipper who owns any and all the skipper must diligently "inspect what he inspects"

The watch captain somehow failed to maintain situational awareness during his duty cycle. That is a clear dereliction of duty. What lead up to that and how it can be prevented in the future is the responsibility of the board of inquiry.

The skipper did not know where the boat was and where it was going. Guilty

The navigator did not know where the boat was and where it was going. Guilty

The watch captain or officer on duty did not know where the boat was and where it was going. Guilty

The crew on deck sensed danger or a least a changing environment and continued to plow ahead. (Is that an error in basic seamanship?)

Yes