chuso007
Super Anarchist
How many thousand miles less will their sails have on them when they re-join? It can make a big difference in performance by the end of the race, IMHO.
...Team VESTAS WIND...the resurrection thread.
- Thread starter couchsurfer
- Start date
zenmasterfred
Super Anarchist
left hook
Super Anarchist
- 7,473
- 5
JeronimoII
Anarchist
just listened to the Vestas media confcall. I missed the first 10 minutes. My notes:
- boat is out. Not repairable
- Vestas & VOR working hard on a solution, i.e. a new boat. But this a great challenge and not an easy task. It might not be possible. Expecting to announce next steps before start of leg 3
- VOR owns the damaged boat. Vestas was leasing it.
- When Vestas was asked about their financial hit due to the accident, its CMO stated that there is no financial hit at all. Their budget is not going to increase due to it.
- Following the above, I guess that the final decision to build a new boat is going to fall on Knut's shoulders, and his ability to convince both Volvo companies to underwrite some millions. He has done this already, so we'll see.
- Vestas very disappointed to be in this situation but very proud on the way the team handled the situation.
- Nico expressed his gratitude about the support from all stakeholders.
- VOR will make public all findings and recommendations going forward.
- I did not hear Wouter speak, but maybe he did so in the 10 minutes I missed.
cheers
- boat is out. Not repairable
- Vestas & VOR working hard on a solution, i.e. a new boat. But this a great challenge and not an easy task. It might not be possible. Expecting to announce next steps before start of leg 3
- VOR owns the damaged boat. Vestas was leasing it.
- When Vestas was asked about their financial hit due to the accident, its CMO stated that there is no financial hit at all. Their budget is not going to increase due to it.
- Following the above, I guess that the final decision to build a new boat is going to fall on Knut's shoulders, and his ability to convince both Volvo companies to underwrite some millions. He has done this already, so we'll see.
- Vestas very disappointed to be in this situation but very proud on the way the team handled the situation.
- Nico expressed his gratitude about the support from all stakeholders.
- VOR will make public all findings and recommendations going forward.
- I did not hear Wouter speak, but maybe he did so in the 10 minutes I missed.
cheers
Recidivist
Super Anarchist
moody frog
Super Anarchist
Very few chances. Marion Dufresne has a busy schedule, which is essential to keep a number of French outposts alive and fed.
Yes they did help Bernard Stamm, but this was because they happened to be moored in the same bay at the exact time of Stamm's anchor dragging. (IIRW had not MD be there Stamm could have enjoyed a permanent mooring and ....)
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A big helo is the best thing to take off the boat to the reef . like Mil-Mi 26 . Now the weckrage is enough light.
What you could call "A transvestite of justice" ?Yes, definitely tasty!
chuso007
Super Anarchist
Yes, but if they finish one leg in front of you and behind your rival, is one point that may cost you the trophy...
mad
Super Anarchist
Exactly, how are they supposed to race and not interfere with the other boats racing?
If the loss had been down to a structural issue then fair enough, replace the boat. But to run it hard aground and then ask for another boat.....................
(flame suit on)
Chimp
Super Anarchist
- 1,161
- 0
Remember when the Russian boat Kosatka stopped racing in Singapore in 2009 and then got enough money together to join in Stockholm? They weren't allowed to rejoin the race because the boat no longer met the class rules after one keel ram was disconnected. Had they met the class rules I believe they would have been allowed to race. In the end they just shadowed the fleet to St Petersburg.
Boo-Yah
Anarchist
A big helo is the best thing to take off the boat to the reef . like Mil-Mi 26 . Now the weckrage is enough light.
This place is 200 miles or much more from nowhere and anywhere. Any helo would have to be barged in or some type of major military operation with inflight refueling. How tender are these rigs when they are pulled to pick up and set down. Can you just jerk them out and plop them down or is the stick needing of hyper care during the dismount? The other issue you face is no helo pilot will connect to something fixed. The cargo load needs to be free ready to host with known load levels. 20,000 pounds of free payload would be the upper limit. Anything buried in the sand would be considered fixed and a no go. Volvo already has spare rigs, what would you do with this uniquely used rig when you got it off the barge the helo or balloon dropped it on? This is all about media, marketing and branding at this point. Just build a new boat or allow a near one design replacement boat already sitting somewhere. This is not the Olympics. From the very beginning this has all been about business, sponsorship, branding, marketing, and advertising.
mad
Super Anarchist
At least it was the same boat (minus a keel ram)
Getting a new one because you trashed the last one.......................
Francis Vaughan
Super Anarchist
No, if it were the Olympics it would be about business, sponsorship, branding, marketing, advertising, international politics, bribery, corruption, kickbacks, squandering of money on colossal scales, and women's beach volleyball (to the exclusion of any sport you were actually interested in.) Compared to the Olympics, the level to which the sport actually matters in the VOR is vastly greater.
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Francis Vaughan
Super Anarchist
Remember, the pair of keel rams is a critical safety design element. It isn't a simple technicality. They would have needed to recertify the boat - and I don't think there was either time or money to get it to full spec. At the time I remember feeling that there were some awkward issues about the way they shadowed the race. There is nothing that says they can't sail where they like, and that they should or should not shadow the race fleet. But it left an unhappy feeling that they were sailing a boat that clearly didn't meet a critical safety design engineering specification.
stief
Super Anarchist
Richard Gladwell's transcription of the presser for Sail-World.com/nz
http://www.sail-world.com/Canada/Volvo-Ocean-Race:-I-saw-jagged-rocks-and-breaking-waves---Nicholson/129723
Volvo Ocean Race: 'I saw jagged rocks and breaking waves' - Nicholson
The Team Vestas Wind crew and Volvo Ocean Race management have just completed a media conference call in Abu Dhabi.
Skipper Chris Nicholson opened by outlining what happened in the 48-hour period prior to the grounding off Team Vestas Wind's on the Cargados Carajos Shoals, some 200 miles north-east of Mauritius in the Indian Ocean
'We were aware that there would be some sea-mounts. When I saw those, I asked what the depth and current and wave conditions would be.
Shore crew manager Neil Cox (blue shirt) and skipper Chris Nicholson after Team Vestas Wind crew arrives to Mauritius - Marc Bow-Volvo Ocean Race Click Here to view large photo
My experience with those off the east coast of Australia is that conditions can get quite bumpy with a difficult wave state.. Wouter’s reply was that the depth went from 3000 metres to 40 metres – that were the extremes of the depths.
'The current was negligible, and we would monitor the wave state, as we approached,' Nicholson said.
'A 40 metre depth is perfectly safe depth at which to cross seamounts or any piece of terrain', Nicholson added.
'That information as relayed to the crew, so they were informed as to the conditions.'
'In hindsight we would have zoomed in much more on the actual area,' said navigator Wouter Verbraak. 'We have not yet managed to get the computers up and running, they are pretty much dead. But we would like to do this, so we know what has happened.
'We had passed during the days, over several seamounts,' Verbraak explained. 'The wave were quite big due to the tropical storms. But we didn’t have any problems with the seamounts. Wave conditions were forecasted to diminish. As such 40 metres was a safe depth to pass over the seamounts.
Team Vestas Wind spun 180 degrees on impact with the Cargados Carajos Shoals, Mauritius, in the Indian Ocean. - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
In response to a question as to whether the crew was in any danger, Nicholson said they were certainly in danger from the time the 65ft yacht hit the atoll.
'We went instantly into an 180-degree turn. In the force of the impact, our rudders broke off. In the instantaneous turn, our dagger board snapped off. We were completely stuck with breaking waves.
'My initial look over the side of the boat was jagged rocks and breaking waves. At that stage, I didn’t even know there was a safe haven as such in the lagoon, some distance away.
'My initial thoughts were obviously for the worst. We had to inform Race Headquarters. There were 100 jobs going on at the one time', he explained, such as securing bulkhead watertight doors, getting survival suits, the liferafts and the AIS personal beacons.'
November 29, 2014. Leg 2 onboard Team Alvimedica. DAY 10. Alvimedica diverts to the Cargados Carajos Shoals where Team Vestas has run aground. Navigator Will Oxley communicates with Vestas over the VHF. - © Amory Ross / Team Alvimedica Click Here to view large photo
'There was so much going on but the one thing that shone out was the entire crew handled the situation with composure.'
'My one thought was that we had to get the boat under control - we had sails still hoisted. It was an amazingly stressful time, but we need to back up and remember that this was bought about by a simple human error.'
'At the end of the day we didn’t look at the chart and we didn’t zoom in enough.'
'But after that it all went well.'
A textbook recovery:
'We made a serious mistake, but the good thing is that we didn't make anymore', said Wolter Verbraak. (It should be noted that in one Pilot for the area it is claimed that the Shoals are 3nm out of position and if correct, electronic and paper charts would both have been affected.)
'Often when you make one mistake, several others are made, and the situation snowballs, and that creates a dangerous situation. But we didn't and that is a testimony to our teamwork and our training and I still vividly remember the moment - even though it was the worst moment in my sailing career, it was also one of the best - because we worked as a team, and that was incredible. As Chris Nicholson highlighted, there was so many jobs to be done - and that is one of the big things that I cherish from this. Everyone picked a piece of the puzzle that moved us forward and into safety. It was an amazing atmosphere on the boat. There was an incredible teamwork and bond within the team.'
Volvo Ocean Race CEO, Knut Frostad reiterated the organizer's relief that all the crew were safe and not injured.
Currently, Vestas Wind and Volvo Ocean Race, along with the insurers of the boat are working together to determine what will happen to the 65ft round the world racer, which is still on the atoll. 'We are all making our absolute best efforts to do what is right with the boat on the reef. Both Volvo Ocean Race and Vestas have a very clear mission to ensure that there is a minimum of environmental impact on the reef.'
The boat will be removed, either 'in its current form or in a different form. We are working on the detail, and all parties are supporting the plan, and trying to make things happen as quickly as possible.'
Team Vestas Wind stuck hard on the Cargados Carajos Shoals - Volvo Ocean Race_© Click Here to view large photo
Sponsors keen to go again:
Morten Albaek, CEO of Team Vestas Wind and Chief Marketing Officer of Vestas Wind reiterated the sponsors keenness to continue in the Race, and confirmed that Chris Nicholson would remain as skipper. 'I trust him now as much as I did before,' Albaek declared.
'It is Vestas' clear ambition to get Vestas Wind out sailing again. We will do everything within our means to make that happen.'
'If the assessment from all the parties is that the boat cannot be repaired. One of the options we are looking into is building a new boat, and whether that can be done and in a time that is meaningful for the team and for Vestas to re-enter the race. That is all still to be concluded, and we are all working closely with Volvo Ocean Race to explore that opportunity, but we don't have any detailed plans or conclusions, yet.'
He confirmed that crew debriefing interviews were already underway to determine what had happened in the lead-up to the incident and that attempts to revive the computers were being made to retrieve the information and build a complete picture, before continuing in the race. The information would be shared within the team and with other teams in the race and the wider sailing community.
Organizers were keen to point out that the issue was a human error. 'Wouter has identified what that was', said Albaek. 'There is no co-relation between the fact that we started our preparation late and this incident.'
Knut Frostad said that the inquiry was extremely important to the Volvo Ocean Race. 'We want to know why the incident happened and how it can be avoided. But also thankfully we don't have incidents like this happening often. We also want to learn how all the safety features worked on the boat, and what the crew experienced in this situation.'
'We are also debriefing with Vestas crew members here and will do so with other team members. We are looking at some changes, if necessary, before the next leg.'
'Our learnings will be published and shared. I cannot give an undertaking as to the timing,' he added.
When first hit, skipper Chris Nicholson said he was unaware that a lagoon lay behind them - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
Boat ownership clarified:
Frostad confirmed that the yacht was owned by Volvo Ocean Race and leased to the Vestas team. If the boat cannot be repaired, and a new boat is commissioned, then 'we will have to talk about the ownership structure.'
Albaek confirmed that there were no financial consequences for Vestas, as the sponsor of the Team Vestas Wind. The boat was insured, and there will be 'no overall decrease in the budget for Vestas Wind's participation in the Volvo Ocean Race if we are lucky enough to get sailing again.'
'There are no financial consequences for Vestas' Albaek reiterated. 'Our close partners, Powerhouse, are also very keen on exploring all opportunities for Vestas to re-enter the race. Of course, it has to be a joint effort to bring the team back. It will take a real contribution from all parties, bring the team back on the water. But Vestas as the lead sponsor is going to take the leadership to drive these opportunities, along with Powerhouse.'
'It is very important for the sailing world to understand that the culture we have within this team is very open and honest,' said Chris Nicholson. 'In the weeks ahead we can go into much finer detail about what happened. But from a personal point of view I really need to thank the Volvo Ocean Race and their safety standards. And Vestas in regard to how we handled the crisis both during and since. They have been amazing with their level of support for the entire team.'
It is not yet known if Vestas Wind can be rebuilt - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
'Alvimedica stood by us and gave invaluable assistance during the night.' Nicholson also acknowledged the Mauritius Coastguard and the Mauritius Police, The level of assistance we received that night was quite amazing, and we did need it.
'Since then everyone in the program has been quite touched by the level of support that we have had.
'I don't know what I expected, but it has simply been amazing. There is a glimmer of hope that we can be back, and I know that everyone here is working just as hard as they can to make that happen.'
Vestas Wind Team boss Morten Albaek reiterated Nicholson's sentiments and thanked the other teams for their help and support 'even though we currently don't have a boat in the race.'
He expected that a decision as to the teams future involvement would be made before the start of the next leg. All parties pointed out that getting the team back in the race was not a foregone conclusion and would be extremely challenging.
But to counter that view, the Volvo Ocean 65 fleet were fortuitously built to be used for two races, and one objective for Team Vestas Wind may be to restart either in Auckland or South America and use the rest of the Race to build for the 2017-18 event.
November 29, 2014. Leg 2 onboard Team Alvimedica. DAY 10. Alvimedica diverts to the Cargados Carajos Shoals where Team Vestas has run aground. Navigator Will Oxley communicates with Vestas over the VHF. - © Amory Ross / Team Alvimedica Click Here to view large photo
Shore crew manager Neil Cox (blue shirt) and skipper Chris Nicholson after Team Vestas Wind crew arrives to Mauritius - Marc Bow-Volvo Ocean Race Click Here to view large photo
December 03, 2014. Team Vestas Wind crew arrives to Mauritius with all the equipment they rescued from the boat after grounding on the Cargados Carajos Shoals on the 29th November; - Marc Bow-Volvo Ocean Race Click Here to view large photo
The Vestas Wind team will minimise their impact on the reef as much as possible - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World.com/nz
http://www.sail-world.com/Canada/Volvo-Ocean-Race:-I-saw-jagged-rocks-and-breaking-waves---Nicholson/129723
Volvo Ocean Race: 'I saw jagged rocks and breaking waves' - Nicholson
The Team Vestas Wind crew and Volvo Ocean Race management have just completed a media conference call in Abu Dhabi.
Skipper Chris Nicholson opened by outlining what happened in the 48-hour period prior to the grounding off Team Vestas Wind's on the Cargados Carajos Shoals, some 200 miles north-east of Mauritius in the Indian Ocean
'We were aware that there would be some sea-mounts. When I saw those, I asked what the depth and current and wave conditions would be.
Shore crew manager Neil Cox (blue shirt) and skipper Chris Nicholson after Team Vestas Wind crew arrives to Mauritius - Marc Bow-Volvo Ocean Race Click Here to view large photo
My experience with those off the east coast of Australia is that conditions can get quite bumpy with a difficult wave state.. Wouter’s reply was that the depth went from 3000 metres to 40 metres – that were the extremes of the depths.
'The current was negligible, and we would monitor the wave state, as we approached,' Nicholson said.
'A 40 metre depth is perfectly safe depth at which to cross seamounts or any piece of terrain', Nicholson added.
'That information as relayed to the crew, so they were informed as to the conditions.'
'In hindsight we would have zoomed in much more on the actual area,' said navigator Wouter Verbraak. 'We have not yet managed to get the computers up and running, they are pretty much dead. But we would like to do this, so we know what has happened.
'We had passed during the days, over several seamounts,' Verbraak explained. 'The wave were quite big due to the tropical storms. But we didn’t have any problems with the seamounts. Wave conditions were forecasted to diminish. As such 40 metres was a safe depth to pass over the seamounts.
Team Vestas Wind spun 180 degrees on impact with the Cargados Carajos Shoals, Mauritius, in the Indian Ocean. - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
In response to a question as to whether the crew was in any danger, Nicholson said they were certainly in danger from the time the 65ft yacht hit the atoll.
'We went instantly into an 180-degree turn. In the force of the impact, our rudders broke off. In the instantaneous turn, our dagger board snapped off. We were completely stuck with breaking waves.
'My initial look over the side of the boat was jagged rocks and breaking waves. At that stage, I didn’t even know there was a safe haven as such in the lagoon, some distance away.
'My initial thoughts were obviously for the worst. We had to inform Race Headquarters. There were 100 jobs going on at the one time', he explained, such as securing bulkhead watertight doors, getting survival suits, the liferafts and the AIS personal beacons.'
November 29, 2014. Leg 2 onboard Team Alvimedica. DAY 10. Alvimedica diverts to the Cargados Carajos Shoals where Team Vestas has run aground. Navigator Will Oxley communicates with Vestas over the VHF. - © Amory Ross / Team Alvimedica Click Here to view large photo
'There was so much going on but the one thing that shone out was the entire crew handled the situation with composure.'
'My one thought was that we had to get the boat under control - we had sails still hoisted. It was an amazingly stressful time, but we need to back up and remember that this was bought about by a simple human error.'
'At the end of the day we didn’t look at the chart and we didn’t zoom in enough.'
'But after that it all went well.'
A textbook recovery:
'We made a serious mistake, but the good thing is that we didn't make anymore', said Wolter Verbraak. (It should be noted that in one Pilot for the area it is claimed that the Shoals are 3nm out of position and if correct, electronic and paper charts would both have been affected.)
'Often when you make one mistake, several others are made, and the situation snowballs, and that creates a dangerous situation. But we didn't and that is a testimony to our teamwork and our training and I still vividly remember the moment - even though it was the worst moment in my sailing career, it was also one of the best - because we worked as a team, and that was incredible. As Chris Nicholson highlighted, there was so many jobs to be done - and that is one of the big things that I cherish from this. Everyone picked a piece of the puzzle that moved us forward and into safety. It was an amazing atmosphere on the boat. There was an incredible teamwork and bond within the team.'
Volvo Ocean Race CEO, Knut Frostad reiterated the organizer's relief that all the crew were safe and not injured.
Currently, Vestas Wind and Volvo Ocean Race, along with the insurers of the boat are working together to determine what will happen to the 65ft round the world racer, which is still on the atoll. 'We are all making our absolute best efforts to do what is right with the boat on the reef. Both Volvo Ocean Race and Vestas have a very clear mission to ensure that there is a minimum of environmental impact on the reef.'
The boat will be removed, either 'in its current form or in a different form. We are working on the detail, and all parties are supporting the plan, and trying to make things happen as quickly as possible.'
Team Vestas Wind stuck hard on the Cargados Carajos Shoals - Volvo Ocean Race_© Click Here to view large photo
Sponsors keen to go again:
Morten Albaek, CEO of Team Vestas Wind and Chief Marketing Officer of Vestas Wind reiterated the sponsors keenness to continue in the Race, and confirmed that Chris Nicholson would remain as skipper. 'I trust him now as much as I did before,' Albaek declared.
'It is Vestas' clear ambition to get Vestas Wind out sailing again. We will do everything within our means to make that happen.'
'If the assessment from all the parties is that the boat cannot be repaired. One of the options we are looking into is building a new boat, and whether that can be done and in a time that is meaningful for the team and for Vestas to re-enter the race. That is all still to be concluded, and we are all working closely with Volvo Ocean Race to explore that opportunity, but we don't have any detailed plans or conclusions, yet.'
He confirmed that crew debriefing interviews were already underway to determine what had happened in the lead-up to the incident and that attempts to revive the computers were being made to retrieve the information and build a complete picture, before continuing in the race. The information would be shared within the team and with other teams in the race and the wider sailing community.
Organizers were keen to point out that the issue was a human error. 'Wouter has identified what that was', said Albaek. 'There is no co-relation between the fact that we started our preparation late and this incident.'
Knut Frostad said that the inquiry was extremely important to the Volvo Ocean Race. 'We want to know why the incident happened and how it can be avoided. But also thankfully we don't have incidents like this happening often. We also want to learn how all the safety features worked on the boat, and what the crew experienced in this situation.'
'We are also debriefing with Vestas crew members here and will do so with other team members. We are looking at some changes, if necessary, before the next leg.'
'Our learnings will be published and shared. I cannot give an undertaking as to the timing,' he added.
When first hit, skipper Chris Nicholson said he was unaware that a lagoon lay behind them - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
Boat ownership clarified:
Frostad confirmed that the yacht was owned by Volvo Ocean Race and leased to the Vestas team. If the boat cannot be repaired, and a new boat is commissioned, then 'we will have to talk about the ownership structure.'
Albaek confirmed that there were no financial consequences for Vestas, as the sponsor of the Team Vestas Wind. The boat was insured, and there will be 'no overall decrease in the budget for Vestas Wind's participation in the Volvo Ocean Race if we are lucky enough to get sailing again.'
'There are no financial consequences for Vestas' Albaek reiterated. 'Our close partners, Powerhouse, are also very keen on exploring all opportunities for Vestas to re-enter the race. Of course, it has to be a joint effort to bring the team back. It will take a real contribution from all parties, bring the team back on the water. But Vestas as the lead sponsor is going to take the leadership to drive these opportunities, along with Powerhouse.'
'It is very important for the sailing world to understand that the culture we have within this team is very open and honest,' said Chris Nicholson. 'In the weeks ahead we can go into much finer detail about what happened. But from a personal point of view I really need to thank the Volvo Ocean Race and their safety standards. And Vestas in regard to how we handled the crisis both during and since. They have been amazing with their level of support for the entire team.'
It is not yet known if Vestas Wind can be rebuilt - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
'Alvimedica stood by us and gave invaluable assistance during the night.' Nicholson also acknowledged the Mauritius Coastguard and the Mauritius Police, The level of assistance we received that night was quite amazing, and we did need it.
'Since then everyone in the program has been quite touched by the level of support that we have had.
'I don't know what I expected, but it has simply been amazing. There is a glimmer of hope that we can be back, and I know that everyone here is working just as hard as they can to make that happen.'
Vestas Wind Team boss Morten Albaek reiterated Nicholson's sentiments and thanked the other teams for their help and support 'even though we currently don't have a boat in the race.'
He expected that a decision as to the teams future involvement would be made before the start of the next leg. All parties pointed out that getting the team back in the race was not a foregone conclusion and would be extremely challenging.
But to counter that view, the Volvo Ocean 65 fleet were fortuitously built to be used for two races, and one objective for Team Vestas Wind may be to restart either in Auckland or South America and use the rest of the Race to build for the 2017-18 event.
November 29, 2014. Leg 2 onboard Team Alvimedica. DAY 10. Alvimedica diverts to the Cargados Carajos Shoals where Team Vestas has run aground. Navigator Will Oxley communicates with Vestas over the VHF. - © Amory Ross / Team Alvimedica Click Here to view large photo
Shore crew manager Neil Cox (blue shirt) and skipper Chris Nicholson after Team Vestas Wind crew arrives to Mauritius - Marc Bow-Volvo Ocean Race Click Here to view large photo
December 03, 2014. Team Vestas Wind crew arrives to Mauritius with all the equipment they rescued from the boat after grounding on the Cargados Carajos Shoals on the 29th November; - Marc Bow-Volvo Ocean Race Click Here to view large photo
The Vestas Wind team will minimise their impact on the reef as much as possible - Brian Carlin - Team Vestas Wind Click Here to view large photo
by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World.com/nz
John Drake
Banned
- Banned
- #59
Was listening to Dawn Riley last night. Two things she said were of interest. One was that she seems to think there is a hull and deck already built. Not sure how she knows that.
The second thing she said was she her experience with Wouter Verbaak ended with her firing him due to his arrogance. She seemed to take great pleasure in that.
Refuel a helicopter in flight? Can that be done? I would have thought the rotor(s) would do a number on the fuel hose, and vice-a-verse.
The second thing she said was she her experience with Wouter Verbaak ended with her firing him due to his arrogance. She seemed to take great pleasure in that.
Refuel a helicopter in flight? Can that be done? I would have thought the rotor(s) would do a number on the fuel hose, and vice-a-verse.
