Teams?

[KiwiJoker]

I read through a bunch of breathless, desperate crap in mostly NZ media about this Challenge. RG at Sailworld claims it has even been accepted by RNZYS, although nobody else does, presumably meaning they fronted all the necessary millions.

What is missing in all of them is what the Challenging YC is. Did I miss that?

"Breathless, desperate?"  No need to be so negative, mate!  But yes, we're eager for news and perhaps jumping the gun.

There is plenty of evidence, or perhaps I should say a suspect lack of evidence, to suggest that YvesKlein is correct and there ain't no Sardinia Challenge for the AC.

I'm operating in unfamiliar territory, language and culture here but nothing adds up.

A search of L'Unione Sarda digital sports pages finds no mention of the challenge. Instead the most recent posting, nearly a month ago, talks about Luna Rossa setting up base in Cagliari.  

I couldn't even find the online front page that was seized on by Scuttlebutt, the NZ Herald and sail-world.com as evidence of a fourth challenge. That suggests it was an elaborate hoax.

The Sailing Tam certainly exists or existed but its Facebook page has been moribund for the past 12 months.

Time for one of our Italian members to step in and rake through the ashes.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

That suggests it was an elaborate hoax.

That suggests it was a childish joke for any biter.

https://www.adelasiaditorres.com/en/

 

[Xlot]

I beleve it was legit vaporware until June 4 - news agency piece about a vague engineering support deal with the Navigo consortium (superyachts in Tuscany, think Perini Navi)

http://www.ansa.it/toscana/notizie/2018/06/04/coppa-america-accordo-adelasia-navigo_e3e1169b-66e5-45d9-bd5d-4454e6d95af8.html

The latest release, instead, has got to be a fake news fabrication. Is this a first for the Cup?

 

[rh3000]

Duncan Johnstone has written this piece that appears to have new quotes from Team principles... (?) Along with mentions of "have now officially signed on"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/104488503/sardinian-syndicate-confirms-americas-cup-challenge 

Always felt the powerpoint was high on dreams and promises and a little empty on substance, but hard to know what lies below the waterline...

Website being filled with filler text doesn't help matters - either it's a hoax, or the team aren't bothered with a half-baked online presence being public...

Either way, the lack of detail and discipline demonstrated so far doesn't reflect well...

 

[WetHog]

As opposed to a 50 foot cat powered by 4 cyclists with a wing trimmer playing Xbox the whole time?

That was absurd too but GD went on about getting the AC back on track, back to normal, back to mono-hulls, back to boats regular folk can relate to.  I don't remember his exact quote but he didn't do that.  He chose a foiling mono-hull to satisfy his COR and his Skipper.  He went from one absurd boat to another and the AC doesn't appear to be heading in a better direction.  

Let me be clear, I am not bringing this up to get a rise out of you Kiwi fans.  I wanted ETNZ to win the Cup in AC32, I wanted ETNZ to beat Alinghi because I believed GD would take the Cup away from the F1 model and embrace nationality rules.  Then for AC35 I wanted ETNZ to win because of the BS Oracle did (primarily take the defense to Bermuda) and because I wanted to see the Cup back in mono-hulls.  Now ETNZ finally won the Cup back and we have this bull shit.  A mono-hull that foils only because the COR gave ETNZ money to beat Oracle on the condition the new boat would be a mono-hull.  GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

WetHog   h34r:

 

[WetHog]

Winners are always "arrogant" according to losers...

I wanted ETNZ to win AC35.  Try again.

WetHog   h34r:

 

[dogwatch]

 GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

Fair enough. What has my interest drifting away from AC36 is that not one single team is likeable in any way.

 

[Rennmaus]

That was absurd too but GD went on about getting the AC back on track, back to normal, back to mono-hulls, back to boats regular folk can relate to.  I don't remember his exact quote but he didn't do that.  He chose a foiling mono-hull to satisfy his COR and his Skipper.  He went from one absurd boat to another and the AC doesn't appear to be heading in a better direction.  

Let me be clear, I am not bringing this up to get a rise out of you Kiwi fans.  I wanted ETNZ to win the Cup in AC32, I wanted ETNZ to beat Alinghi because I believed GD would take the Cup away from the F1 model and embrace nationality rules.  Then for AC35 I wanted ETNZ to win because of the BS Oracle did (primarily take the defense to Bermuda) and because I wanted to see the Cup back in mono-hulls.  Now ETNZ finally won the Cup back and we have this bull shit.  A mono-hull that foils only because the COR gave ETNZ money to beat Oracle on the condition the new boat would be a mono-hull.  GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

WetHog   h34r:

Every single word above describes how I think/feel. Thanks Hoggie!!!

 

[Stingray~]

Fair enough. What has my interest drifting away from AC36 is that not one single team is likeable in any way.

DeVos and Ineos aside, these teams look pretty good to me. 

And while I am still skeptical about Adelasia, they could entertain.

 

[dogwatch]

Really, you consider ETNZ "likeable"?. That hasn't exactly been your position in recent years.

 

[doghouse]

People that want monohulls baffle me.

 

[Kiwing]

^  Been in the blue water, in a storm in a multi?  Even more scaring than in a monohull.

But The big round the world multies have shown it possible and even getting to grips with that challenge.

However AC is about pushing the boundaries and these mono-multies are about halfway between.  As witness the ocean racers of today, amazing boats, and AC and it's egos have broken the new ground and paid for the tech to get there.  I would have loved to see wings again because the kite/wing area is there to be explored to blast us onto some even more amazing boats.

There are plenty of one design, match racing regattas now, we need the AC and it's egos to throw the ball further out there.

 

[Forourselves]

That was absurd too but GD went on about getting the AC back on track, back to normal, back to mono-hulls, back to boats regular folk can relate to.  I don't remember his exact quote but he didn't do that.  He chose a foiling mono-hull to satisfy his COR and his Skipper.  He went from one absurd boat to another and the AC doesn't appear to be heading in a better direction.  

Let me be clear, I am not bringing this up to get a rise out of you Kiwi fans.  I wanted ETNZ to win the Cup in AC32, I wanted ETNZ to beat Alinghi because I believed GD would take the Cup away from the F1 model and embrace nationality rules.  Then for AC35 I wanted ETNZ to win because of the BS Oracle did (primarily take the defense to Bermuda) and because I wanted to see the Cup back in mono-hulls.  Now ETNZ finally won the Cup back and we have this bull shit.  A mono-hull that foils only because the COR gave ETNZ money to beat Oracle on the condition the new boat would be a mono-hull.  GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

WetHog   h34r:

If you look at it objectively, the reasoning behind the new AC75 concept is understandable.

The Multihull era failed - twice. All we got was Larry Ellison and his rich friends "competing" against each other, if you can actually call it that.

Where it did succeed, was it put butts in seats in terms of TV coverage purely because of the speed and the excitement of the boats. It did attract sponsors, but then again, many of the teams in Bermuda didn't require sponsors as they were bankrolled by billionaires, or at least multi millionaires. France, The Kiwi's and Groupama probably the teams most dependant on sponsorship. 

It also attracted the non-sailing audience, but the problem with that is, they go down to their local sailing club expecting to learn to sail foiling boats, and what they get is small dinghies that aren't particularly appealing. 

The majority of the sailing community are still partisan to Monohulls because its basically all they know. The problem with that is, the monohulls of the past, while being very cool, don't have the speed and/ or the excitement of the foiling cats, they are big and graceful and require finesse to sail them around an Americas Cup course, but to the non-sailing audience they are just big, slow, slugs that are boring to watch. 

ETNZ were in a position where if they went with the traditional slow but graceful, tried and true Monohull, they risked losing much of the audience that tuned in to Bermuda, but if they went with the failed Multihull route, they risked losing the majority of the sailing community that were partisan to the monohull tradition. Not to mention, they would've looked somewhat hypocritical. So they were left with one option, a foiling monohull, which incorporates elements of both preference. Speed and excitement, as well as grandeur and tradition. 

I don't know how anyone can write these new boats off as "absurd" when we haven't even seen one sail yet, let alone race in anger. 

ETNZ have a proven track record of innovation and forward thinking. The least we could all do is wait until one is launched before we judge them. 

 

[Forourselves]

Gladwell still insisting the Sardinian Challenge is real.


Gladwell's Line - 4th AC Challenger.. New superyacht facility..


https://www.sail-world.com/news/206184/Gladwells-Line--The-Week-in-Review

 

[Stingray~]

Really, you consider ETNZ "likeable"?. That hasn't exactly been your position in recent years.

So far, it’s been okay. The design and sailing teams are very good. 

 

[Monkey]

If you look at it objectively, the reasoning behind the new AC75 concept is understandable.

The Multihull era failed - twice. All we got was Larry Ellison and his rich friends "competing" against each other, if you can actually call it that.

Where it did succeed, was it put butts in seats in terms of TV coverage purely because of the speed and the excitement of the boats. It did attract sponsors, but then again, many of the teams in Bermuda didn't require sponsors as they were bankrolled by billionaires, or at least multi millionaires. France, The Kiwi's and Groupama probably the teams most dependant on sponsorship. 

It also attracted the non-sailing audience, but the problem with that is, they go down to their local sailing club expecting to learn to sail foiling boats, and what they get is small dinghies that aren't particularly appealing. 

The majority of the sailing community are still partisan to Monohulls because its basically all they know. The problem with that is, the monohulls of the past, while being very cool, don't have the speed and/ or the excitement of the foiling cats, they are big and graceful and require finesse to sail them around an Americas Cup course, but to the non-sailing audience they are just big, slow, slugs that are boring to watch. 

ETNZ were in a position where if they went with the traditional slow but graceful, tried and true Monohull, they risked losing much of the audience that tuned in to Bermuda, but if they went with the failed Multihull route, they risked losing the majority of the sailing community that were partisan to the monohull tradition. Not to mention, they would've looked somewhat hypocritical. So they were left with one option, a foiling monohull, which incorporates elements of both preference. Speed and excitement, as well as grandeur and tradition. 

I don't know how anyone can write these new boats off as "absurd" when we haven't even seen one sail yet, let alone race in anger. 

ETNZ have a proven track record of innovation and forward thinking. The least we could all do is wait until one is launched before we judge them. 

Please, just come clean and tell us that post was an intentional troll. 

I know New Zealand’s education system is far too good for that to have been serious. 

 

[dogwatch]

So far, it’s been okay. The design and sailing teams are very good. 

That's "competent" or even "accomplished". It's nothing to do with "likeable".

 

[dogwatch]

to throw the ball further out there.

Could we please throw that tired old cliché "out there" too, far enough so it never comes back?

 

[terrafirma]

Who really thinks the TP52 is an appropriate training boat? We have the US and Italian teams for example sailing the 52's now but surely they are not a training platform for the foiling design they will be racing in? if so the Kiwis would be sailing in the 52 series too IMO

 

[dogwatch]

I find myself wondering if Ineos has abandoned TP52 training because BA doesn't consider it productive or because (perhaps) he's lost Tony Langley's goodwill

If you want to practice/fine-tune the communication flow at the stern of the boat, then sailing TP52s has value and IIRC someone in LR said exactly that. Otherwise, not so much.