Teams?

[barfy]

If you look at it objectively, the reasoning behind the new AC75 concept is understandable.

The Multihull era failed - twice. All we got was Larry Ellison and his rich friends "competing" against each other, if you can actually call it that.

 Where it did succeed, was it put butts in seats in terms of TV coverage purely because of the speed and the excitement of the boats. It did attract sponsors, but then again, many of the teams in Bermuda didn't require sponsors as they were bankrolled by billionaires, or at least multi millionaires. France, The Kiwi's and Groupama probably the teams most dependant on sponsorship. 

It also attracted the non-sailing audience, but the problem with that is, they go down to their local sailing club expecting to learn to sail foiling boats, and what they get is small dinghies that aren't particularly appealing. 

The majority of the sailing community are still partisan to Monohulls because its basically all they know. The problem with that is, the monohulls of the past, while being very cool, don't have the speed and/ or the excitement of the foiling cats, they are big and graceful and require finesse to sail them around an Americas Cup course, but to the non-sailing audience they are just big, slow, slugs that are boring to watch. 

ETNZ were in a position where if they went with the traditional slow but graceful, tried and true Monohull, they risked losing much of the audience that tuned in to Bermuda, but if they went with the failed Multihull route, they risked losing the majority of the sailing community that were partisan to the monohull tradition. Not to mention, they would've looked somewhat hypocritical. So they were left with one option, a foiling monohull, which incorporates elements of both preference. Speed and excitement, as well as grandeur and tradition. 

I don't know how anyone can write these new boats off as "absurd" when we haven't even seen one sail yet, let alone race in anger. 

ETNZ have a proven track record of innovation and forward thinking. The least we could all do is wait until one is launched before we judge them. 

Please, just come clean and tell us that post was an intentional troll. 

I know New Zealand’s education system is far too good for that to have been serious. 

Pot, meet kettle.

Think outside the box a bit monkey boy. It wasn't just a deal with LR that led to the monos, it was a shared conviction that this was the way to go, to drive development somewhere else for the future.

no-one has splashed a trickle on version of the last cycle's machines. And there is as of yet no "press release" the AC/F!/maybe 50's, so don't even go there until the rubber meets the road.

 

[Forourselves]

Please, just come clean and tell us that post was an intentional troll. 

I know New Zealand’s education system is far too good for that to have been serious. 

Nope, not an intentional troll. Just the truth.

 

[Sailimggoddess]

damn that is cold

Buck is gonna win brucie his first Worlds this year...that's gotta be worth something!

I’m sorry did you mean next year? 

 

[WetHog]

And why do you think it is that LR wanted to go back to a monohull? Because they know, as ETNZ do, that the majority of the sailing community prefer the monohull direction as opposed to the multihull direction. They also know the multihull era of the Americas Cup has failed big time and has damaged the current state, as well as the future of the Americas Cup. This new direction attempts to combine the two. ETNZ have always preferred the Monohulls over the multi's.

Take off the tin foil hat. One minute you don't want the big slow mono slugs of the V5 era, then the AC72's and AC50's are absurd, then you don't want the AC75 either, maybe just stop following the Americas Cup altogether, because you're never going to be satisfied.  

My guess is The Poodle wanted a mono-hull because he wanted a design reset.  Thats the only reasonable guess I can make as to why he would agree to a mono-hull where the mono-hull is not supposed to touch the water during racing.  Once again, had nothing to do with the sailing community.  

As for the mono-hull I wanted to see, TP52 variant with the foiling system used by the latest IMOCA boats or a variant of the IMOCA boats themselves.   Would of been fun to see how an AC design competition could of taken that IMOCA technology forward and the sailing community could of actually related to whatever was created.  Instead we got a boat that appears to be more impractical to the sailing community than the AC72's and AC50's.  

WetHog   h34r:

 

[nav]

Waaaa....

there are plenty who found/find the imoca a step too far.

Are you 100% positive this AC design has nothing to offer, worst idea yet, failed already, a total dead end? 

"Please let's stick to the stable, traditional, widely accepted and used Imoca system - there can be nothing superior, ever!" W.H.  :blink:

 

[Forourselves]

My guess is The Poodle wanted a mono-hull because he wanted a design reset.  Thats the only reasonable guess I can make as to why he would agree to a mono-hull where the mono-hull is not supposed to touch the water during racing.  Once again, had nothing to do with the sailing community.  

As for the mono-hull I wanted to see, TP52 variant with the foiling system used by the latest IMOCA boats or a variant of the IMOCA boats themselves.   Would of been fun to see how an AC design competition could of taken that IMOCA technology forward and the sailing community could of actually related to whatever was created.  Instead we got a boat that appears to be more impractical to the sailing community than the AC72's and AC50's.  

WetHog   h34r:

The IMOCA system is foil assist providing lift to leeward. It only works at high wind speeds when the boat has enough pace to lift off. There is no way the IMOCA system would work around the cans as the boats as they would not provide enough lift through maneuvers. The IMOCA system was designed for single handed off shore racing, not inshore round the buoys racing in a large wind range. 

I don't get how the AC75's can be "more impractical than the AC72's, or AC50's just because they won't touch the water" Both of those classes, the AC50 especially were designed with the aim of "keeping the hulls dry" so whats the difference? The cats had 2 hulls, both of which were not supposed to touch the water, where the AC75 has only one hull to lift, so that argument is irrelevant.

 

[NZL4EVER]

IN
Team New Zealand
Luna Rossa
Ineos Team UK
American Magic

POSSIBLE
Sardiana  Challenge
Team USA-21
Norway
Swiss
France
China
Australia

 

[Robsi524]

IN
Team New Zealand
Luna Rossa
Ineos Team UK
American Magic

POSSIBLE
Sardiana  Challenge
Team USA-21
Norway
Swiss
France
China 
Australia

 

[NZL4EVER]

Not Alinghi but another Swiss challenge is being talked about.
"while there have been whispers of interest from Norway and Switzerland."

France are still trying to get there.
"Bolstered by the unfailing support of partners and supporters, Team France will continue to work hard so that France is present at the 36th America's Cup," the statement finished.

As for Australia it's so close to home why not?

 

[Tornado-Cat]

The only challengers voting rights. Dictorship under the appearance of democracy at its best. Oh please keep on pissing on Ernesto and Larry.

a meeting of all of the then Challengers to elect by a majority vote the new Challenger of Record amongst the candidates. The RNZYS shall have a veto right on such election to be exercised immediately after the election at the Challengers Meeting; in such case the Challengers shall immediately proceed with a new election, the RNZYS maintaining its veto right.

 

[Forourselves]

The only challengers voting rights. Dictorship under the appearance of democracy at its best. Oh please keep on pissing on Ernesto and Larry.

a meeting of all of the then Challengers to elect by a majority vote the new Challenger of Record amongst the candidates. The RNZYS shall have a veto right on such election to be exercised immediately after the election at the Challengers Meeting; in such case the Challengers shall immediately proceed with a new election, the RNZYS maintaining its veto right.

Give it a rest would ya! No one cares.

 

[rh3000]

The only challengers voting rights. Dictorship under the appearance of democracy at its best. Oh please keep on pissing on Ernesto and Larry.

a meeting of all of the then Challengers to elect by a majority vote the new Challenger of Record amongst the candidates. The RNZYS shall have a veto right on such election to be exercised immediately after the election at the Challengers Meeting; in such case the Challengers shall immediately proceed with a new election, the RNZYS maintaining its veto right.

If you can't comprehend why that clause is there then we can't help you...

 

[WetHog]

The IMOCA system is foil assist providing lift to leeward. It only works at high wind speeds when the boat has enough pace to lift off. There is no way the IMOCA system would work around the cans as the boats as they would not provide enough lift through maneuvers. The IMOCA system was designed for single handed off shore racing, not inshore round the buoys racing in a large wind range. 

I don't get how the AC75's can be "more impractical than the AC72's, or AC50's just because they won't touch the water" Both of those classes, the AC50 especially were designed with the aim of "keeping the hulls dry" so whats the difference? The cats had 2 hulls, both of which were not supposed to touch the water, where the AC75 has only one hull to lift, so that argument is irrelevant.

JC75 isn't more impractical than an AC72 or AC50 but its just as impractical, IMO.  Hard to see the average member of the sailing community being able to purchase, dock and maintain a 25 to 35 ft version of a JC75.  

My argument is if foiling is so important, and clearly it is, then why use mono-hull design when the multi-hull design is better for foiling?  The main reasons given were the COR demanded a mono-hull and a mono-hull would appeal more to the sailing community.  The COR demanding a mono-hull makes sense to me because it provides a design reset for a team who sat out the last Cup cycle, a team who would be one cycle behind the design curve if the AC50's were kept.  What doesn't make sense to me is saying a foiling mono-hull will appeal to the sailing community because the sailing community can relate to a mono-hull.  No one in the sailing community sails a boat that looks or performs anything like a JC75.  In 10 years no one in the sailing community will have a 25 to 35 ft version of a JC75 tied up at the dock just like they won't have a 25 to 35 ft version of an AC50.  The boats are to complex, to hard to maintain and will cost to much money.  But because the JC75 was chosen there will be fewer teams in this Cup cycle than the last and there might not be an AC37 for a long time after AC36 is done.  

If GD and The Poodle wanted a mono-hull then they should of chosen a design where the mono-hull touches the water.  A mono-hull like the IMOCA boats with foil assist that would of been practical for around the can races.  That type of boat would of appealed to the sailing community more and whatever innovations came out of such a boat would of truly trickled down to the sailing community. That, and there would of been more teams signed up to challenge.

WetHog   h34r:

 

[Lakrass]

A JC75 at dock will still look like a regular monohull and take reasonable amount of space at the dock (compared to 500 sqm for AC50). 

As much as this looks like a regular power-boat at deck or slow speed.



But there stop the ressemblance as it would for any AC concept at this age. AC is about performance sailing and the relation to papy Sunday sailboat is very thin whatever the rulebook. 

Defending Imoca might prove risky as they are probably the class which has the most to gain from the outcome of JC75. Imoca is slowly increasing their foiling dependency and if someone manage to have reliable foiling around the world, they probably will go for it whatever ugly beast it requires...

JC75 will be an interesting technical challenge anyway and much better than what could be...

The Sardinian challenge have been cited as wanting to change the rule in case they win the cup. Have a look at their surrogate:

 

[WetHog]

That foiling ferry you posted has been around a while.  I wonder why that technology hasn't trickled down to all the stink pots I see tooling around the Chesapeake Bay on a beautiful summer day.

Regardless of how I feel about the JC75 the choice has been made.  Heres hoping it produces an event as good as what this cycle is comparable to, AC34.  We shall see.

WetHog   h34r:

 

[Forourselves]

JC75 isn't more impractical than an AC72 or AC50 but its just as impractical, IMO.  Hard to see the average member of the sailing community being able to purchase, dock and maintain a 25 to 35 ft version of a JC75.  

My argument is if foiling is so important, and clearly it is, then why use mono-hull design when the multi-hull design is better for foiling?  The main reasons given were the COR demanded a mono-hull and a mono-hull would appeal more to the sailing community.  The COR demanding a mono-hull makes sense to me because it provides a design reset for a team who sat out the last Cup cycle, a team who would be one cycle behind the design curve if the AC50's were kept.  What doesn't make sense to me is saying a foiling mono-hull will appeal to the sailing community because the sailing community can relate to a mono-hull.  No one in the sailing community sails a boat that looks or performs anything like a JC75.  In 10 years no one in the sailing community will have a 25 to 35 ft version of a JC75 tied up at the dock just like they won't have a 25 to 35 ft version of an AC50.  The boats are to complex, to hard to maintain and will cost to much money.  But because the JC75 was chosen there will be fewer teams in this Cup cycle than the last and there might not be an AC37 for a long time after AC36 is done.  

If GD and The Poodle wanted a mono-hull then they should of chosen a design where the mono-hull touches the water.  A mono-hull like the IMOCA boats with foil assist that would of been practical for around the can races.  That type of boat would of appealed to the sailing community more and whatever innovations came out of such a boat would of truly trickled down to the sailing community. That, and there would of been more teams signed up to challenge.

WetHog   h34r:

Really, if the AC went with boats that the average member of the sailing community has access to, it would die a slow, (or maybe even a quick) death.

My argument is do we know for a fact that the multi's are better for foiling? We haven't seen an efficient foiling monohull yet. It took 2 cycles to perfect a foiling multihull for Americas Cup racing. It may take 2 cycles to perfect an efficient foiling monohull as well.

As for the CoR "demanding a monohull because it provides a design reset for a team who sat out the last Cup cycle, a team who would be one cycle behind the design curve if the AC50's were kept" I think that would be incorrect, as if LR had the input into the ETNZ AC50 that many here say they did, it would make more sense that they would be well ahead of the design curve than well behind.

Again, the Americas Cup doesn't exist for the average joe from down the road to participate in. It exists to inspire those people, to motivate them. If the AC used boats that the average person goes day sailing in, it wouldn't be the Americas Cup. 

 

[rh3000]

That foiling ferry you posted has been around a while.  I wonder why that technology hasn't trickled down to all the stink pots I see tooling around the Chesapeake Bay on a beautiful summer day.

WetHog   h34r:

For the same reason the cup is no longer resident on your shores perhaps? As further evidenced by your own "can't be done" attitude and lack of vision for innovation by scoffing at those pushing sailing forward.

Foils are now all over monos all over the world and are starting to show up in 'consumer' boats too... It's the future of all hulls, so why not let the AC push massively predominant monos forward?

 

[Stingray~]

What makes the AC75 so totally unique a foiler is in how the ballast is so moveable. 

 

[Tornado-Cat]

If you can't comprehend why that clause is there then we can't help you...

Because :

[SIZE=11pt]2.1.            [/SIZE]For the purposes of the Deed of Gift, all challenges accepted by RNZYS ( {'Challenges") shall be deemed to have been received by the RNZYS at the same time, being the time of the conclusion of the Final Race 2017.

And because accepted challengers, at the exception of the initial CoR, have no rights.

 

[Forourselves]

Because :

[SIZE=11pt]2.1.            [/SIZE]For the purposes of the Deed of Gift, all challenges accepted by RNZYS ( {'Challenges") shall be deemed to have been received by the RNZYS at the same time, being the time of the conclusion of the Final Race 2017.

And because accepted challengers, at the exception of the initial CoR, have no rights.

They have the right to present options to the CoR.