Teams?

Tornado-Cat

Super Anarchist
16,290
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1) Well, our mate clarke has already provided the Deed's safety valve escape clause that answers all your questions!

But, dealing with your theoretical points:

2) Is it deed compliant to : - consider (deemed) challenges received at the same time when we have precedent of a split of a second difference? 

Hard numbers are hard numbers. Is it considered fair to award first place for a marathon based on a split-second difference?

3) Is it deed compliant to :- ask challengers to vote a new challenger?  

We know that challengers can vote en bloc so I'd tend to prefer next challenger in line. That said, the Defender should have right of veto for demonstrable cause, ie, stuff like Challenger team and club financial health, etc.

 4) Is it deed compliant to :- have the defender choose the next challenger thanks to multiple vetos instead of picking up the next one?

No.
1) Our mate sclarke has the quick fix for anything relating to AC, politics, life...

2) Agreed

3) Agreed, however we speak here of already accepted challenger who fulfilled their financial duties

4) Agreed.

 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,235
1,796
South Coast, UK
Is it now likely that there will be more than three challengers?

Just can't see Sardinia or the second US challenge fronting up the cash at the end of the month.

Certainly would reduce the govt costs in Auckland building bases.

Are there any serious contenders out there from China, Russia? 
End of the month is too soon to be sure. Late entries accepted up to 30th Nov. It is however hard to see how anyone who isn't already far into the design process would be doing anything except wasting their time and money starting now.

 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
10,156
2,429
New Zealand
1) Our mate sclarke has the quick fix for anything relating to AC, politics, life...

2) Agreed

3) Agreed, however we speak here of already accepted challenger who fulfilled their financial duties

4) Agreed.
You need to separate what is "Deed Compliant" from what is "Protocol compliant". The Deed makes no provision for anything to do with multiple challengers. It only makes provision for "Mutual consent" between "The Defender" and "The Challenger". 

What you speak about is what YOU think is "Fair". 

It is completely fair and understandable for RNZYS and its CoR to maintain Veto rights over nomination as a replacement CoR.

As long as LR and ETNZ (or the RNZYS) agree to that particular clause in the protocol - as per the deed, mutual consent has been achieved between the Defender and its CoR, therefor is deed compliant is it not? 

As for considering (deemed) challenges received at the same time when we have precedent of a split of a second difference, the entry window closes in November, not June, therefor can Challenges really be deemed received before then?

 

Lakrass

Member
282
158
End of the month is too soon to be sure. Late entries accepted up to 30th Nov. It is however hard to see how anyone who isn't already far into the design process would be doing anything except wasting their time and money starting now.
Would it be so dumb for a lower budget team considering an entry to keep low profile until Nov 30th?

I mean they could do with a team of engineers and run plenty of simulation until then, it leaves plenty of time to evaluate the concept in details and eventually find some 'out of the box' ideas which might provide a good shot at the cup (if not, at least have better confidence if this will work or not). With the potential good idea in hand and an advanced design, it should be easier to convince some extra sponsors to join in (making up for penalty fees). Late challenge also allows to recruit the crew later and spare some $$$.

For a small structure not yet fully convinced by the foiling monohull, it might be strategically interesting to wait until Nov 30th to apply. Lower risk and higher rewards for them than committing now (without bad publicity to draw back in case they realize they won't make it).

The drawback is late start to build the boat and less time testing it but such team would only build one boat and won't have the budget to develop it a lot anyway...

 

Terry Hollis

Super Anarchist
Would it be so dumb for a lower budget team considering an entry to keep low profile until Nov 30th?

I mean they could do with a team of engineers and run plenty of simulation until then, it leaves plenty of time to evaluate the concept in details and eventually find some 'out of the box' ideas which might provide a good shot at the cup (if not, at least have better confidence if this will work or not). With the potential good idea in hand and an advanced design, it should be easier to convince some extraoat  sponsors to join in (making up for penalty fees). Late challenge also allows to recruit the crew later and spare some $$$.

For a small structure not yet fully convinced by the foiling monohull, it might be strategically interesting to wait until Nov 30th to apply. Lower risk and higher rewards for them than committing now (without bad publicity to draw back in case they realize they won't make it).

The drawback is late start to build the boat and less time testing it but such team would only build one boat and won't have the budget to develop it a lot anyway...
When we had the AC72's ETNZ claimed that the design cost exceeded the cost of building the boat.

I suspect in this case the design cost of the AC75 may be even greater than the AC72's.

 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,235
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South Coast, UK
Would it be so dumb for a lower budget team considering an entry to keep low profile until Nov 30th?

I mean they could do with a team of engineers and run plenty of simulation until then, it leaves plenty of time to evaluate the concept in details and eventually find some 'out of the box' ideas which might provide a good shot at the cup (if not, at least have better confidence if this will work or not). With the potential good idea in hand and an advanced design, it should be easier to convince some extra sponsors to join in (making up for penalty fees). Late challenge also allows to recruit the crew later and spare some $$$.
Maybe but it's a small world of designers familiar with such work, gossip as to who is working for whom tends to spread, yet there's no evidence that any of the putative additional challengers have in fact started design work.

 
Maybe but it's a small world of designers familiar with such work, gossip as to who is working for whom tends to spread, yet there's no evidence that any of the putative additional challengers have in fact started design work.
Consider the number of "additional challengers" that could be playing the long game. Float your name out there in June 2018 as a team that "will" enter, but then don't. Or maybe even do enter but be willing to walk away from the entrance fee. Then watch to see whether this new boat works as an AC race boat, howsoever you as the team sponsor or owner define "works." And then come in strong for AC37 right after the finish of AC36. Grab as much talent as you can as fast as you can and build a super competitive team with the maximum amount of time to build it. That could be a better strategy than putting together a late-to-enter, losing effort for AC36 and trying to attract top talent for AC37.

 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
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from https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/sports/sailing/volvo-ocean-race-donfeng.html#click=https://t.co/U224gRi1xi

Growing up in Brittany, Caudrelier was serious about golf before becoming a professional sailboat racer. He spoke with The New York Times on Wednesday. This conversation has been condensed and edited.

....

Does the 2021 America’s Cup really interest you? Franck Cammas challenged in 2017 with a French team.

I sent a text to Franck yesterday: ‘What do we do now?’ And he said, ‘Obviously we are going to search for the money for the Cup.’ And he told me it’s going to be complicated because in a month or two it’s over. We have to be entered by then. I hope we can succeed in making it happen, but the odds are against us.

People always said the French were not meant for crewed races, but we’ve now proven it twice by winning the Volvo. In the America’s Cup, it’s just a problem of means, and everyone knows it. We can’t go up against Team New Zealand or Oracle or BAR if we don’t have the same means.


 

 
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Kiwing

Super Anarchist
3,538
599
Bay of Islands
No we need these extremely wealthy egos to set the bar unbelievably high.

Next tier VOR, TP52s F50s etc

then foiling moths and A class, etc etc

But sailors surely like one design regattas, where the boats are not expensive and are perfectly equal it is the sailors that make the difference, and that is where they have their wealth (not in dollars though in skill) 

 

Stingray~

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nav

Super Anarchist
14,053
570
officially...

RNZYS CONFIRMS CHALLENGERS ACCEPTED FOR 36th AMERICA’S CUP
30th June 2018 marks the end of the initial challenging period for the 36th America’s Cup presented by Prada, which commenced on the 1st of January 2018.

The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron confirms three Challenges have been received and accepted within the terms of the Protocol of the 36th America’s Cup.  The entries are in accordance with the America’s Cup Deed of Gift to challenge the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron and its representative team, Emirates Team New Zealand.

The confirmed entries in order of receipt are as follows:

  • Circolo della vela Sicilia (Italy), represented by Luna Rossa Challenge, the Challenger of Record



  • New York Yacht Club (USA), represented by American Magic



  • Royal Yacht Squadron Racing (UK), represented by INEOS TEAM UK



Interest continues from other potential challengers around the world who have until 30th November 2018 to enter, as per the Late Entry period defined in the Protocol.

“We are thrilled to have three very high quality challengers confirmed for the 36th America’s Cup in Auckland. It is going to be a fantastic spectacle with this calibre of teams and the cutting edge yachts that the world has never seen. We welcome any further challengers from the teams that we are currently in talks with.” said Steve Mair, Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron.

“It is a great honour to welcome the best teams in the world to challenge for the Prada Cup. To win the America’s Cup, one will first need to win the Prada Cup. said Laurent Esquier, CEO of COR 36, the organisers of the America’s Cup World Series and challenger selection series. (!?)

https://www.americascup.com/en/news/25_ENTRIES-REMAIN-OPEN-WHILE-INITIAL-36th-AMERICAS-CUP-ENTRY-PERIOD-PASSES.html
 
255
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I am sure the entered teams don’t mind the lack of competition, but by any other measure this has to be viewed as a failure for the Cup and the sport.  

 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,421
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PNW
Ouch..

Grant Dalton always seems to be firing up, promising heaps for the 2021 America's Cup, delivering not quite so much.

The Team New Zealand boss was at it again this weekend, as he tried to give just three official challengers for the 2021 regatta serious wow factor.

...

Bottom line: for a lot of us, the Dalton we see is difficult to warm to. This makes selling a vacuum cleaner, let alone a very expensive regatta, difficult.

The regatta is on, it could be fantastic, but it has a lot to prove. Who knows? Long term, the America's Cup may need a lot of friends for survival.

In this regard, TNZ is not always helped by their indefatigable front man.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12081224

 
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Ouch..

Grant Dalton always seems to be firing up, promising heaps for the 2021 America's Cup, delivering not quite so much.

The Team New Zealand boss was at it again this weekend, as he tried to give just three official challengers for the 2021 regatta serious wow factor.

...

Bottom line: for a lot of us, the Dalton we see is difficult to warm to. This makes selling a vacuum cleaner, let alone a very expensive regatta, difficult.

The regatta is on, it could be fantastic, but it has a lot to prove. Who knows? Long term, the America's Cup may need a lot of friends for survival.

In this regard, TNZ is not always helped by their indefatigable front man.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12081224
Not sure why Ratt-shit-ue has an axe to grind over Dalts, but he does seem to have it in for any Kiwi sports people. He does get down and out personal. Guessing he has an ego problem as he always rights like that.

 

Fireball

Anarchist
743
5
There was some luck during AC34 and AC35 in that none of the boats were wrecked during the racing (though some were wrecked before the racing). So there were actually 4 boats racing in AC34 (sort of racing in the case of Artemis) and there were 6 boats racing in AC35.

They need the same good fortune for AC36 where none of the boats are destroyed in capsizes or collisions. 4 boats racing  is a lot better than 2 or 3.

 


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