Ted Stevens

[flaps15]

I'm a flatlander, and curious why Vx would not be best? I know that in gliders, or airplanes that suddenly become gliders, you're supposed to add half the wind speed to your best glide speed to make the most distance upwind. Is what you're talking about something like that? (Commercial Airplane S&MEL and Glider, Instrument (airplane), former CFII, +/- 1,500 hrs, almost all in FL and the Bahamas, so try to talk to me down on my level. )

I cut my teeth in, around and over the mountains of Western Pa., where the type of flying the Steven's airplane was attempting, killed a lot of people. Scud running into places like Nemacolin, Latrobe, Blairsville, Altoona and Johnstown to name a few, was crazy flying not to mention as we all know illegal. While it's recognized in Alaska as day to day flying, my point was attempting to demonstrate that in a faster aircraft, there most probably would have been no survivors. It wasn't an attempted discussion or debate about Vx vs. Vy and Density Altitude was IMO the larger factor. Keeping in mind these bug speeds are not written in stone. If you've never flown into a box canyon/valley below minimums with granite obstructions all around on a hot day, visibility up and down and depending on the aircraft and the pilots discretion, (if good, would've never been there in the first place) which is why I chose not to comment about the details of the crash without the facts. What I read up to the point of my post was the aircraft crashed at full power and in a nose up position on the obstruction.* Straight and level VFR without obstructions or low vis comments don't seem to apply here. But guaranteed, Density Altitude and being scared to shit had a big impact. A conversation I would gladly have without the encumbrance of a keyboard.

As for Biff's comments, personally reminiscent of days gone by waiting for my Part 135 passenger/s in the terminal listening to the "airport bums" hanging and watching and dreaming. It would be interesting to see how his attitude adjusts after he shoots his first ADF approach below minimums, with a 90 degree cross-wind and no boots or hot prop in freezing rain and a twenty-eight hundred foot mountain range less than a mile off, paralleling the runway. Groundspeed? gimmee a break. Stay current there, Biff.

*"The Otter had plowed into the hill, Bouker said. "He bounced up the mountain. He looked like he was in a full power climb. ... He looked like he was climbing when he hit." -Anchorage Daily News

link

 

[Spatial Ed]

It wasn't an attempted discussion or debate about Vx vs. Vy and Density Altitude was IMO the larger factor.

Jebus, when flying into a box canyon and you can't make the ridge, you turn around. You just apply power and dive don't you!

This accident happened near sea level. Density altitude had ZERO role in the crash. What a maroon! God, its gotta hurt to be schooled by a low hour private pilot like this.

FYI, I own and fly a C150 in the mountains of Colorado which takes much more skill than flying some overpowered turbo prop at 1000ft. The field elevation is 5500 ft, typical density altitude is over 8,000 ft. I know and fly in conditions you fear and rarely know. And do it in an underpowered aircraft. You don't know shit, and/or desperately need a BFR. Gotta admit its fun to school someone like you. Jeff? Am I wrong?

 

[flaps15]

Yep, sea level. Keep goin' Biff you're burying yourself. Then again, you can always turn around, eh?

 

[Gouvernail]

 

[Mark K]

Yep, sea level. Keep goin' Biff you're burying yourself. Then again, you can always turn around, eh?

Sorry, but you lost this one. I've been to Dillingham man, all that flat land is damn close to sea level and those are just 1-2,000 MSL foot hills. Also, there is no such thing as a hot, cloudy-windy day on Bristol Bay. The thing just doesn't exist.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

1,000 feet doesn't make it a mountain?

Sincerely,

Every Floridian

 

[Spatial Ed]

Flaps, you've made 3 stupid statements here.

1) Pilots discretion to use Vx or Vy in an emergency situation to clear obstacles.

2) Slow climb rate helped minimize crash impact.

3) Density altitude played a factor in a crash that happened near sea level in cold weather. PS (1000ft is not high density altitude)

This tells us you :

1) Know the jargon, but not the application, ie not really a pilot.

2) are a pilot who is so far out of currency you will need to retake basic ground school to pass your biannual flight review.

3) are the stupidest pilot I've ever come across and lucky to be alive.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

1,000 feet doesn't make it a mountain?

Sincerely,

Every Floridian

I climbed Mt. Dora.

 

[Mr. Fawning]

1,000 feet doesn't make it a mountain?

Sincerely,

Every Floridian

I climbed Mt. Dora.

What's it like, crawling up and over 44DD's?

Btw, happy birthday you ornery, attorneyistic phuk...........

 

[Mark K]

1,000 feet doesn't make it a mountain?

Sincerely,

Every Floridian

I climbed Mt. Dora.

With or without oxygen?

Happy BD dude.

 

[Spatial Ed]

Hey flaps, care to either retract or defend your stupid comments?

 

[flaps15]

Tell you what Biff, I'll more than happy to retract anything corrected by the up coming NTSB report on this incident. In the mean time I stand by my posts. Your reaction to my comments and your uninformed accusations and incorrect interpretations of my explanations speak volumes of your inexperience and the impatience of a low time, piston-engined single, VFR (student?) pilot. I sincerely hope we don't read about you next, if you truly fly in and around the mountains of Colorado as the next casualty of general aviation. For now, thanks for your feedback on this important, complex issue today. We value your input. Till then, stay current Biff and remember; There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. But there are no, old, bold pilots.

We're done here.

 

[Bull Gator]

Are you retarded?

What about Chuck Yeager??

 

[Spatial Ed]

Tell you what Biff, I'll more than happy to retract anything corrected by the up coming NTSB report on this incident. In the mean time I stand by my posts. Your reaction to my comments and your uninformed accusations and incorrect interpretations of my explanations speak volumes of your inexperience and the impatience of a low time, piston-engined single, VFR (student?) pilot. I sincerely hope we don't read about you next, if you truly fly in and around the mountains of Colorado as the next casualty of general aviation. For now, thanks for your feedback on this important, complex issue today. We value your input. Till then, stay current Biff and remember; There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. But there are no, old, bold pilots.

We're done here.

Really sucks to be schooled by a low time, piston pilot who happens to do all my flying in high density altitude conditions in a low powered aircraft. (if you really know what that means, you would know that I actually have to fly my plane, not just steer it).

Notice how all the other pilots on this board let you swing in the wind? Must have Happy Jack and JeffB cringe watching the train wreck that is you. I think Tom already wrote you off.

The NTSB report will be interesting, but that will take at least a year to come out. And I'll wager, everything you stated will not be part of the findings, like density altitude being a factor near sea level in below standard conditions or the slow climb rate reducing the crash impact. That's the kind of shit an FAA designated check pilot might throw at a candidate to see if they really understood their shit. Clearly, its been a very long time since someone verified your knowledge.

Its been fun though. While you make an ass out of yourself here, I still fly at least 3 times a month. Sure, its just bumping around the mountains, doing a few spins, cloud dancing, chasing antelope. But its more flying than you clearly have done recently. And yeah, its in a 40 year old trainer that really requires you know its limitations to keep it up in the air. Don't worry about me.

Here's another hanger adage for you, "Better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, than flying and wishing you were on the ground." Stay on the ground Flaps.

 

[Bull Gator]

Tell you what Biff, I'll more than happy to retract anything corrected by the up coming NTSB report on this incident. In the mean time I stand by my posts. Your reaction to my comments and your uninformed accusations and incorrect interpretations of my explanations speak volumes of your inexperience and the impatience of a low time, piston-engined single, VFR (student?) pilot. I sincerely hope we don't read about you next, if you truly fly in and around the mountains of Colorado as the next casualty of general aviation. For now, thanks for your feedback on this important, complex issue today. We value your input. Till then, stay current Biff and remember; There are old pilots and there are bold pilots. But there are no, old, bold pilots.

We're done here.

Really sucks to be schooled by a low time, piston pilot who happens to do all my flying in high density altitude conditions in a low powered aircraft. (if you really know what that means, you would know that I actually have to fly my plane, not just steer it).

Notice how all the other pilots on this board let you swing in the wind? Must have Happy Jack and JeffB cringe watching the train wreck that is you. I think Tom already wrote you off.

The NTSB report will be interesting, but that will take at least a year to come out. And I'll wager, everything you stated will not be part of the findings, like density altitude being a factor near sea level in below standard conditions or the slow climb rate reducing the crash impact. That's the kind of shit an FAA designated check pilot might throw at a candidate to see if they really understood their shit. Clearly, its been a very long time since someone verified your knowledge.

Its been fun though. While you make an ass out of yourself here, I still fly at least 3 times a month. Sure, its just bumping around the mountains, doing a few spins, cloud dancing, chasing antelope. But its more flying than you clearly have done recently. And yeah, its in a 40 year old trainer that really requires you know its limitations to keep it up in the air. Don't worry about me.

Here's another hanger adage for you, "Better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, than flying and wishing you were on the ground." Stay on the ground Flaps.

And DOWN goes flappie

 

[Spatial Ed]

And DOWN goes flappie

I always thought Flaps15 referred to the aviation term, "flaps 15 degrees" in preparation for landing. After this, I think he refers to vaginal flaps, perhaps 15 millimeters extending from the taint. So he's really just pussy lips, flapping in the wind.

Reminds me of a old skydiving joke from yesteryear when I used to jump from perfectly good aircraft,

Do you know why female skydivers where tampons?

To keep from whistling on the way down.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

And DOWN goes flappie

I always thought Flaps15 referred to the aviation term, "flaps 15 degrees" in preparation for landing. After this, I think he refers to vaginal flaps, perhaps 15 millimeters extending from the taint. So he's really just pussy lips, flapping in the wind.

Reminds me of a old skydiving joke from yesteryear when I used to jump from perfectly good aircraft,

Do you know why female skydivers where tampons?

To keep from whistling on the way down.

I recall a highly amusing video of a female skydiver, with certain anatomy flapping in the breeze.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Why would you spin your 150, Ed? Where I taught, we had an old, hosed 150 that was the only plane used for spins, and only when required for CFI training/check rides. They told me it's hard on the equipment, particularly the gyroscopes. I didn't find it to be all that much fun after the rush of doing it the first time or two.

 

[Spatial Ed]

Why would you spin your 150, Ed? Where I taught, we had an old, hosed 150 that was the only plane used for spins, and only when required for CFI training/check rides. They told me it's hard on the equipment, particularly the gyroscopes. I didn't find it to be all that much fun after the rush of doing it the first time or two.

Because its a frikin hoot and really hones your skills. The 150 is one of the best GA planes to spin. Its predictable, easy to get it back out and tough as nails. Haven't heard about spinning being hard on the gyros, maybe early ones.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Hah! That's not a bad video. Hard subject to capture.

I just didn't like it much because you have to force it to spin and hold it in the spin or it will recover. Feels like you're torturing the poor little airplane! If you like that kind of thing, why not get an aerobatic airplane? I got to fly a Pitts Special once, and it's kind of like the difference between a pram and, well, anything fast and responsive.