That's a trailer sailer!

Russell Brown

Super Anarchist
1,761
1,442
Port Townsend WA
Apart from the tris most of the yachts posted here are more like transportable by trailer than trailer sailers in my view.
Tri are great fast sailers but again many that are truely trailable are cramped inside and ungainly for mixed use cruising including marinas, use on land between cruising destinations and in tighter waterways.
It often seems many here are chasing Bluewater cruisers rather than embracing more versatility around the trailable part of trailable yachts.
There is a mid point sweet spot in my view between camper sailing on oversized dinghies with accomodation and full sized yachts somehow squeezed onto trailers and even perhaps needing cranes ( or close) to rig their masts and launch.
The other issue is speed. Few expect a moderate sized live aboard cruiser to be a speedster and to make a trailable yacht comfortable for sailing weeks on end as distinct from an overnighter or tent camping equivalent is likely going to generate a lot of stuff on a relatively small yacht.
Regardless much comment revolves around sailing speed.
I have gone another direction and many disagree but I feel comfort onboard combined with ease of trailering, rigging and launching are paramount for a truely trailable yacht.
Constantly exploring new cruising grounds often separated by long trailing distances have me prefer a yacht that trails close to the ground, within normal width, length, height rules. One that can be easily accessed for accommodation on land/trailer between destinations.
(cheap and also secure if you are actually onboard at night)
A trailer sailer which will launch on average ramps designed for powerboats and can be rigged and launched single handed if necessary.
All of the above are likely to mean it is also capable of accessing very shallow coastal and other areas and inland waterways with overhead obstacles.
Just my take on trailable cruising yachts.🙂

View attachment 557310
Grith, I know you love your boat, but it's not really a sailboat. I know it sails, but it mostly uses a large amount of horsepower and fuel to push it around. I think you would agree that it's a better powerboat than a sailboat and I think it's true that it's probably not as good a motorboat as it would be if it was just a good motorboat.
It could be a big step up from previous boats of the type, but it's not likely to suit people that are use to sailboats.
I think the market for trailerable small cruising boats is largely untapped, but I hope that the planing motorboat/sailboat type fades in favor of displacement boats that can both motor and sail well and also be a bit easier on the eye.
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
Grith, I know you love your boat, but it's not really a sailboat. I know it sails, but it mostly uses a large amount of horsepower and fuel to push it around. I think you would agree that it's a better powerboat than a sailboat and I think it's true that it's probably not as good a motorboat as it would be if it was just a good motorboat.
It could be a big step up from previous boats of the type, but it's not likely to suit people that are use to sailboats.
I think the market for trailerable small cruising boats is largely untapped, but I hope that the planing motorboat/sailboat type fades in favor of displacement boats that can both motor and sail well and also be a bit easier on the eye.
Sorry going to call that one out as bullshit!
My yacht very rarely uses its big engine and sails perfectly fine as a cruising trailer sailer. It keeps up or even passes many other cruising loaded trailer sailers and small cruising yachts on most points of sail. ( not upwind into a chop admittedly)
I am sure if it had a conventional 9.9 Yamaha on the stern there would be barely a comment except perhaps about a lot of freeboard for a 28 footer.
I would venture that my time above displacement speed under motor is well less than that spent planning under sail.
The flattish bottom and stern contribute to its ability to lift under sail off the breeze just like many planing hulls on racing yachts these days.
I use the weight of supplies and cruising gear loaded down low instead of loading the huge water ballast tanks meaning even with weeks/months of supplies on board I remain at or above my design waterline.
Just because something is different doesn’t mean it doesn’t have its uses.
I was one of the first serious white water kayak paddlers to move to Tupperware ( plastic hulls ) back many moons ago and initially took heaps of shit from the paddling community for that experiment.
Now try finding a white water kayak not made of plastic except extreme carbon fibre competition kayaks.
Same occurred when I purchased one of the very early Hobie Adventure Island Sit On Kayak Trimarans yet these have now developed and are highly regarded craft with a wide range of uses.
I don’t know where self styled experts get off on criticising others choices especially if they haven’t really tried them out.
My previous Jarcat 6 was also an unusual choice being a 20 foot plywood trailable Catamaran with fixed bridge deck accommodation and a big donk capable of planning under sail and engine.
It opened my eyes to the extra range of locations accessible by a trailable yacht if it could move above hull speed in specific circumstances like river mouth bar crossings, quick runs over the top of extreme tidal flows and running for cover just to name a few.
The Imexus actually sails much better than the Jarcat 6 did when both were fully loaded for extended cruising whilst being vastly more comfortable to live onboard for an extended period.
The Jarcat saw many adventures some written up in published articles by my ex.
I am sure the Imexus will do the same.
 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,205
1,110
SoCal
Grith, I know you love your boat, but it's not really a sailboat. I know it sails, but it mostly uses a large amount of horsepower and fuel to push it around. I think you would agree that it's a better powerboat than a sailboat and I think it's true that it's probably not as good a motorboat as it would be if it was just a good motorboat.
It could be a big step up from previous boats of the type, but it's not likely to suit people that are use to sailboats.
I think the market for trailerable small cruising boats is largely untapped, but I hope that the planing motorboat/sailboat type fades in favor of displacement boats that can both motor and sail well and also be a bit easier on the eye.
Nice try Russell, but it's very hard to convert the zealot. Grith not only loves his boat, but doesn't believe it does anything poorly...I'm glad he likes his boat. But he is blind to the compromises made. No boat can do everything well, or even OK. Every boat is a compromise. But love is blind...
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
My yacht very rarely uses its big engine and sails perfectly fine as a cruising trailer sailer
"sails perfectly fine" could mean anything at all.
It keeps up or even passes many other cruising loaded trailer sailers and small cruising yachts on most points of sail. ( not upwind into a chop admittedly)
Still too vague to evaluate.
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
"sails perfectly fine" could mean anything at all.

Still too vague to evaluate.
What do you want? Pictures of passing other cruising yachts under sail.
Log speeds on various points of sail verses wind speed?
It’s a cruising yacht generally carrying a very big load of supplies with a dodger and one or two bimini’s erected, about 600w of solar panels and over 200 litres (about 50 gallons )of both water and fuel.
It also carry’s its inflated dingy on the foredeck and still manages to get up on a plane on a good reach with winds over about 15 knots.
I have yet to first fly the mast head (like new secondhand) asymmetrical spinnaker I have just fitted and I will see how it goes with this in lighter winds.
Under 5knots of breeze downwind previously some of my cruising friends were easing away from me whilst at 10 knots of breeze the situation reversed.
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
Nice try Russell, but it's very hard to convert the zealot. Grith not only loves his boat, but doesn't believe it does anything poorly...I'm glad he likes his boat. But he is blind to the compromises made. No boat can do everything well, or even OK. Every boat is a compromise. But love is blind...
Wrong Crash. I know my choice is a compromise, has limitations and will suit relatively few.
I have sailed and raced for well over fifty years now including Sydney to Hobart and winning a few championships in various trailer sailers of my own and crewing on larger yachts that consistently won their championships.
I was briefly a paid fordeck and spinnaker hand on maxis in the seventies when this was relatively uncommon.
I am these days however about the use of trailer sailers as an expedition/ cruising platform to explore areas often out of reach of conventional yachts.
I was making comment on this thread as virtually full keel yachts sitting high on crane off or very deep float off trailers don’t really make versatile trailable yachts in my view whilst obviously many are really great sailing yachts which is not in question.
Like I stated previously if the Imexus had a 15 Hp inboard or 9.9hp outboard I am sure there would actually be little comment.
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
if the Imexus had a 15 Hp inboard or 9.9hp outboard I am sure there would actually be little comment
I just checked the specs at https://imexusyachts.com/portfolio/imexus-28/

With a smaller engine, the boat would still be an under-ballasted, under-canvassed tub with excessively-high topsides, a low-aspect rig, a helm borrowed from a RIB, no rocker, and a stern so draggy that it is probably the capital of Dragistan.

If it makes you happy, then good for you. But "yacht"? No way.
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
Glad you’ve got two legs as you appear to be a bit one eyed.
This is the cruising forum not a racing forum.
As for under ballasted not every yacht or yachtsman has to rely on some low hanging lump of lead or steel to sail effectively.
I generally don’t even add the water ballast to mine until it gets over 15 knots and not then if it’s following.
Re mast height: in most countries mast length on trailables is limited by maximum allowable length and overhangs if you don’t want to end up being pulled over and fined and the Imexus mast is about as long as allowed for this size of trailable package here in Australia.
Smaller sports boats can have respectively longer masts as they are still not breaching overall max towable lengths.
Regarding not being a yacht tell that to generations of sailers who traversed the world in crap that barely sailed with no motor and by sextant, stars or luck.
My own country was claimed (not found) by an Englishman sailing a pretty flat bottomed converted coal barge.
Using a sailing craft for exploration and adventure predates written history and many of the sailing craft used both back then and even now sail far worse than mine.😂
I have form as my previous micro cruiser had no ballast, a very small sail plan, a pretty flat bottom and a big donk.
Shown here dried out in Hill Inlet in the Whitsundays.
83FD6035-223B-4EE3-B9C9-C53D1F676B3E.jpeg
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
Re mast height: in most countries mast length on trailables is limited by maximum allowable length and overhangs if you don’t want to end up being pulled over and fined and the Imexus mast is about as long as allowed for this size of trailable package here in Australia.
So you agree that the mast is too short. At least we agree on something.
 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,205
1,110
SoCal
bmiller, nothing against a guy who loves his boat. That’s a good thing. But I early used the term zealot, impart because it’s his answer to everyone’s question, almost no matter the question.

I’ve loved most of the boats I’ve owned. But I also recognize that didn’t make them the right answer to everyone else’s needs. I try hard to consider the needs of others before recommending a boat as a potential solution to their needs. I think Leggs does the same thing. She’s trying to get him to be realistic about his boat’s strengths and weaknesses…
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
The reason why I added to this thread in the first place is the first word in trailer sailer is Trailer. I commenced sailing at nine years old in the late 60’s in a Hartley 16 which was close to the beginning of the development of trailer sailers.
I have watched all the permutations of the class and owned many different iterations myself including trailable sports boats, catamarans and trimarans and have both raced and cruise all extensively. The thing that many complain of about trailer sailers is the difficulty of launching, mast raising and accommodation size. My current choice covers these areas well whilst like all yachts remains a complex mix of compromises. Each to their own.
The benefits of trailer sailers include the flexibility of changing sailing locations which in my view outweigh the disadvantages for me but not for many others I realise.
Shitting on others boat choices is a pretty crap thing to do as distinct from just highlighting some advantages of various designs.
Everyone has their preferences and bilge keels, barge boards, junk rigs and pilot houses to name but a few all have their uses and place in the diverse world of sailing.
It’s just that trailables allow land sailing across vast distances to reach new sailing locations quickly and easily and also access to locations unavailable to deeper draft yachts.
My yacht shown here crossing the width of Australia West to East. We slept on board in the desert and played dodgems with some of the worlds longest regular heavy haulage trucks.🙂
1F43E0D2-C6D9-4D30-90B7-176B2F1B2B15.jpeg
579A7813-3723-410E-8090-04F17FC14FCE.jpeg
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
Shitting on others boat choices is a pretty crap thing to do as distinct from just highlighting some advantages of various designs.
Grith, seem to be not hearing what is being said to you.

if you had just been highlighting the advantages of trailer sailers in general or of your boat in particular, then I for one would not have been tough on you.

The problem is that instead of honestly describing the compromises, you have been busy making implausible claims about your boat's capabilties, phrased in weaselly terms reminiscent of a dodgy marketer.

Many CA regulars are highly experienced sailors. Several regulars are professional designers. Many others know how to assess the basic parameters of boat design, and see how factors such as SA/D, D/L, rig profile, stability, and wetted surface will impact performance.

There are places where you can get away with boosterism. This is not one of them.
 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,205
1,110
SoCal
Girth, I’m not shitting on your boat choice, nor your boat. I’m just saying it’s not the answer to everyone’s trailer sailor needs, and that it’s seemed to me that you tend to promote it often as the answer to most questions.

I truly am glad it’s so perfect for you! Having found the near perfect boat is rare. I’m still looking. So you’re doing something right!
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,421
3,503
Tasmania, Australia
The reason why I added to this thread in the first place is the first word in trailer sailer is Trailer. I commenced sailing at nine years old in the late 60’s in a Hartley 16 which was close to the beginning of the development of trailer sailers.
I have watched all the permutations of the class and owned many different iterations myself including trailable sports boats, catamarans and trimarans and have both raced and cruise all extensively. The thing that many complain of about trailer sailers is the difficulty of launching, mast raising and accommodation size. My current choice covers these areas well whilst like all yachts remains a complex mix of compromises. Each to their own.
The benefits of trailer sailers include the flexibility of changing sailing locations which in my view outweigh the disadvantages for me but not for many others I realise.
Shitting on others boat choices is a pretty crap thing to do as distinct from just highlighting some advantages of various designs.
Everyone has their preferences and bilge keels, barge boards, junk rigs and pilot houses to name but a few all have their uses and place in the diverse world of sailing.
It’s just that trailables allow land sailing across vast distances to reach new sailing locations quickly and easily and also access to locations unavailable to deeper draft yachts.
My yacht shown here crossing the width of Australia West to East. We slept on board in the desert and played dodgems with some of the worlds longest regular heavy haulage trucks.🙂 View attachment 557517 View attachment 557516

Yep, agree, I'd not want to sail my 12m boat from Hobart to the Kimberlies. It's perfectly do-able, but it's a LONG way.

And once the wet season arrives, it's a long way to get out of there too. Been there done that when I was getting paid to be uncomfortable.

But don't expect any parochial Irish person to get that, seeing as Ireland is only 16,000 sq km bigger than Tasmania, and nobody thinks Tasmania is a big place.

FKT
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
But don't expect any parochial Irish person to get that, seeing as Ireland is only 16,000 sq km bigger than Tasmania, and nobody thinks Tasmania is a big place.
And yet more personal abuse from FKT. It's all completely unjustified, because at no point have I suggested in any way that a trailer-sailer boat is a bad idea. My only observation has been that Grith's claims about sailing performance are unfounded.

This tactic of repeatedly asserting falsehoods to attack someone is bullying. It's very interesting to see how determined FKT is demonstrate how right I was years ago to identify him as a bully, and as someone who I would regard as unsafe company in real life.

Anyway, keep it up FKT. It's very helpful that you repeatedly demonstrate what a mendacious bully you are.
 




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