That's a trailer sailer!

Slowboat

Super Anarchist
Hi Slow , here's another request for a vid of launch , bloody awesome mate .:)
Launch is done via travel lift, but I think we all guessed that. Who wants to dunk their beautiful trailer in salt water…boat is pretty quick to re-rig, as it has a hydraulic mast jack.

I think we all know it isn’t really a trailer sailer, but I wouldn’t hesitate to head off anywhere with the boat on the trailer.
 
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Crash

Super Anarchist
5,216
1,113
SoCal
Actually, the travel lift, yard, launch ramp, and marinas are all owned and operated by a public entity, the Port of Port Townsend.

It is not clear to me why the travel lift costs have roughly quadrupled in the last 10 years.
I don't know the details of the whats and whys of PT specifically, and I am specifically not trying to take a political side here. I think its a complex problem that stems from multiple reasons. Some are environmental, some relate to gentrification, some to the need for municipalities to raise more revenues to provide more services to folks, as that what they seem to want and/or need. Its part that yachting is seen (by some) as a sport of rich folks. All of this has conspired to put pressure on the yards and marinas that didn't exist a decade or two ago. The revenue stream from a bunch of condos (from property tax, sales tax, etc, and the tax on business that pop up near by (dining, supermarkets, etc) is likely notably higher than from a boatyard on the same sized plot. If local government isn't very careful, its easy to start to drive away the very activities that drew folks to the city in the first place...how do you preserve a maritime history and maintain a maritime culture, and a thriving industry that enables it, given all the other pressures and considerations?

Never mind developer's money, political designs and desires, etc, etc?
 

bmiller

Super Anarchist
6,048
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Buena Vista, Colorado
There's a couple J80's available right now on trailers, one is in Brooklin ME.
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This one pushes the limit of trailer sailer. It caught my eye because the photo shows it just a few miles from my house. But it's actually in FL.
IMG_2613.jpg
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
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The definition of trailer-sailer seems to me to have been stretched quite a lot.

My understanding of "trailer-sailer" has always been that it means a boat which can be launched and retrieved shorthanded off its own trailer and can raise and lower its own mast, without needing a boatyard. So no crane, no travelift, no army of crew.

Several of the boats here depend on a well-equipped boatyard at each end. That may work for some people, but it's a very different recipe to the sort of boat which requires only a slipway. And it's also likely to be a lot more expensive.
 
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Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist

bmiller

Super Anarchist
6,048
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Buena Vista, Colorado
The term trailer sailer certainly doesn't have any legal definition. It's all a state of mind. Like the term yacht. One man's yacht is anothers garbage scow.

Here is one of my previous trailer sailers. It had an A frame to raise the mast and I made a really long extension to ramp launch it.

i-8F3hGQK-L.jpg


i-95D5dN6-L.jpg


And this one was my first trailer sailer.
i-9TLbKKJ-XL.jpg
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
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The term trailer sailer certainly doesn't have any legal definition. It's all a state of mind.
Sure, it's flexible. Your set may be unconventionally big, but you can tow behind an everyday vehicle and you can can launch and recover independently, so I reckon that's a trailer sailer.

But if the term starts being used for any vessel that can be road-hauled between cranes, it starts to become useless: nearly all boats under about 50 feet can be moved by road, if you have the right machinery and permits.
 

Russell Brown

Super Anarchist
1,763
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Port Townsend WA
I am surprised and saddened to hear that this is happening.

I had kinda assumed that Port Townsend would have avoided the wider curse of everything maritime being bought up big companies whose mission is to squeeze every last drop out of their assets.
It's both the lack of natural harbors and the influx of people with disposable incomes and big shiny boats. I could say a whole lot more, but I have already stuck my foot in it. I have strong views on politics, lifestyles, boats, energy use, etc, but I'd rather get along with everybody than be uptight.
Grith, I'd enjoy getting to see your boat and seeing how it performs. I'm a boat designer and know that all boats are compromises. I do like designs that explore the extremes, which your boat does, so maybe I'd actually like it.
 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,216
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bmiller and Leggs got me thinking. While there are no definitions as bmiller says, and indeed its flexible and a state of mind, as I thought I came up with 3 loose categories or definitions:

1. Trailer-daysailor - your typical dinghy type sailboat. No berths/head/galley, open cockpit or decked over forepeak/small cuddy meant to keep some stuff dry in spray or rain. Towable by small SUV/mid-sized car. Ramp launchable. Rig can stepped by 1 person generally unassisted. Less than 30mins to rig entire boat to sail. My Melonseed fell into this category, as do lots of small boats. Lightnings, Flying Scots, etc. etc, etc.

2. Trailer-sailor- Sailboat with small cabin and 2-4 berths. Small galley and head. Small Outboard engine, Towable by mid-full size SUV. Ramp launchable (may need tongue extention). Rig stepped by 2 people using a gin pole or a-frame. 30 mins- 1 hour to rig boat to sail. Catalina 22, S2 6.9 and 7.9, Santana 23D, and lots of other similar boats.

Trailerable Sailboat - Sailboat that can be towed by HD Pickup or Suburban/Expedition SUVs. Requires hoist or travel lift to put boat in water. Crane/hoist/travellift boom to raise rig. 1 hour plus to rig boat to sail. 4-6 berths, small to mid size galley and head. Inboard or outboard power. Fixed keel smaller boats like J-24/J-27, etc to bigger boats like bmiller's old Compac 27, or the J/105 up thread.
 

DDW

Super Anarchist
6,712
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I think of the last one as more like a relocatable sailboat. You aren't going to put it in every time you want to sail it. But you can bring it home for the winter to work on it, or relocate it to a new cruising area, even if that involves a lift. I'd include everything that doesn't involve a hired trucking company. The natural dividing lines are: 1) requires a lift to launch, 2) requires permits to move, and 3) requires a hired trucking company to move. Each of those is a major step up in effort, and a major step down in mobility.
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
bmiller and Leggs got me thinking. While there are no definitions as bmiller says, and indeed its flexible and a state of mind, as I thought I came up with 3 loose categories or definitions:
1. Trailer-daysailor - your typical dinghy type sailboat. No berths/head/galley, open cockpit or decked over forepeak/small cuddy meant to keep some stuff dry in spray or rain. Towable by small SUV/mid-sized car. Ramp launchable. Rig can stepped by 1 person generally unassisted. Less than 30mins to rig entire boat to sail. My Melonseed fell into this category, as do lots of small boats. Lightnings, Flying Scots, etc. etc, etc.

2. Trailer-sailor- Sailboat with small cabin and 2-4 berths. Small galley and head. Small Outboard engine, Towable by mid-full size SUV. Ramp launchable (may need tongue extention). Rig stepped by 2 people using a gin pole or a-frame. 30 mins- 1 hour to rig boat to sail. Catalina 22, S2 6.9 and 7.9, Santana 23D, and lots of other similar boats.

Trailerable Sailboat - Sailboat that can be towed by HD Pickup or Suburban/Expedition SUVs. Requires hoist or travel lift to put boat in water.
Almost agree. If they can be launched and rigged by one or two people on a conventional boat ramp without outside mechanical assistance and towed everywhere with a conventional car license vehicle generally unrestricted by the authorities due width, weight, length or height then I feel they still class as a trailer sailer even if perhaps a maxi trailer sailer.
Those that can transport only with restrictive permits and rig and launch with the help of cranes, boat lifts or similar are in my view transportable as distinct from trailable yachts and these are distinct from trailer sailers.
No comment from me on the engine size statement except some of us exist at the boundaries.😂
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
It's both the lack of natural harbors and the influx of people with disposable incomes and big shiny boats. I could say a whole lot more, but I have already stuck my foot in it. I have strong views on politics, lifestyles, boats, energy use, etc, but I'd rather get along with everybody than be uptight.
Grith, I'd enjoy getting to see your boat and seeing how it performs. I'm a boat designer and know that all boats are compromises. I do like designs that explore the extremes, which your boat does, so maybe I'd actually like it.
Hi Russell If you ever make it down under please look us up and even come and stay. We have just retired to a tiny marina development (110 properties) on the Mighty Murray River in South Australia with the ability to park our yacht and launch our various other water craft from our back yard.
Our local sailing patch includes a really huge relatively shallow freshwater lake, ( Lake Alexandrina) strong breezes accompanied by steep short waves and also access to a thousand miles of navigable river. We also have the ability to reach the open ocean and coastal sailing but this is via a challenging rivermouth bar with limited suitable weather crossing windows. Whilst they try to dredge it to keep it open it is beyond the capacity of most conventional yachts to pass through.
The particular choice I made in a maxi trailable yacht was made with a wide range of considerations including these.
 

Grizz

Beats the crap out of me
588
317
Northport, NY
bmiller and Leggs got me thinking. While there are no definitions as bmiller says, and indeed its flexible and a state of mind, as I thought I came up with 3 loose categories or definitions:

1. Trailer-daysailor - your typical dinghy type sailboat. No berths/head/galley, open cockpit or decked over forepeak/small cuddy meant to keep some stuff dry in spray or rain. Towable by small SUV/mid-sized car. Ramp launchable. Rig can stepped by 1 person generally unassisted. Less than 30mins to rig entire boat to sail. My Melonseed fell into this category, as do lots of small boats. Lightnings, Flying Scots, etc. etc, etc.

2. Trailer-sailor- Sailboat with small cabin and 2-4 berths. Small galley and head. Small Outboard engine, Towable by mid-full size SUV. Ramp launchable (may need tongue extention). Rig stepped by 2 people using a gin pole or a-frame. 30 mins- 1 hour to rig boat to sail. Catalina 22, S2 6.9 and 7.9, Santana 23D, and lots of other similar boats.

Trailerable Sailboat - Sailboat that can be towed by HD Pickup or Suburban/Expedition SUVs. Requires hoist or travel lift to put boat in water. Crane/hoist/travellift boom to raise rig. 1 hour plus to rig boat to sail. 4-6 berths, small to mid size galley and head. Inboard or outboard power. Fixed keel smaller boats like J-24/J-27, etc to bigger boats like bmiller's old Compac 27, or the J/105 up thread.
We trailered my friend’s 7.9 all over the Eastern seaboard- it launches at any ramp with no tongue extension, mast can be put up by one person using the spin pole and mainsheet tackle, or two by just lifting. The ability to retract the daggerboard all the way into the hill was key. It was the diesel inboard model, so no outboard to screw with either.
 

bmiller

Super Anarchist
6,048
1,333
Buena Vista, Colorado
bmiller and Leggs got me thinking. While there are no definitions as bmiller says, and indeed its flexible and a state of mind, as I thought I came up with 3 loose categories or definitions:

1. Trailer-daysailor - your typical dinghy type sailboat. No berths/head/galley, open cockpit or decked over forepeak/small cuddy meant to keep some stuff dry in spray or rain. Towable by small SUV/mid-sized car. Ramp launchable. Rig can stepped by 1 person generally unassisted. Less than 30mins to rig entire boat to sail. My Melonseed fell into this category, as do lots of small boats. Lightnings, Flying Scots, etc. etc, etc.

2. Trailer-sailor- Sailboat with small cabin and 2-4 berths. Small galley and head. Small Outboard engine, Towable by mid-full size SUV. Ramp launchable (may need tongue extention). Rig stepped by 2 people using a gin pole or a-frame. 30 mins- 1 hour to rig boat to sail. Catalina 22, S2 6.9 and 7.9, Santana 23D, and lots of other similar boats.

Trailerable Sailboat - Sailboat that can be towed by HD Pickup or Suburban/Expedition SUVs. Requires hoist or travel lift to put boat in water. Crane/hoist/travellift boom to raise rig. 1 hour plus to rig boat to sail. 4-6 berths, small to mid size galley and head. Inboard or outboard power. Fixed keel smaller boats like J-24/J-27, etc to bigger boats like bmiller's old Compac 27, or the J/105 up thread.
main-qimg-e491eb0a4024cc90f577a2cfa4610980.webp
 

Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist
I'm not going to search the thread, so this may have posted before, but this is a "gentleman's" true Trailer Sailer, complete with a monster price and some unnecessary stuff such as radar. I think this fits Crash's Cat 2.

1'10" draft with the lifting keel up. 4 berths, nice cockpit, bulb on the keel, true yacht quality build, Bill Cook design. Only a few built so essentially bespoke.

A cheaper build of this same design would be attractive to some, I think.

 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,216
1,113
SoCal
I'm not going to search the thread, so this may have posted before, but this is a "gentleman's" true Trailer Sailer, complete with a monster price and some unnecessary stuff such as radar. I think this fits Crash's Cat 2.

1'10" draft with the lifting keel up. 4 berths, nice cockpit, bulb on the keel, true yacht quality build, Bill Cook design. Only a few built so essentially bespoke.

A cheaper build of this same design would be attractive to some, I think.

I remember spending an hour or so aboard one at the Annapolis boat show talking with Hank about it. IIRC, new back in the day, it was about the same price as a J/109. Putting price aside, it was a really neat boat. There's another one listed as well, with the shorter cabin. Its a steal at a monster price plus $10K I do like the looks of the Stars & Stripes Blue and Shorter cabin better. One was rated out on Eastern Long Island Sound at 186 PHRF, so reasonable quick for a 26 footer. An S2 7.9 with an inboard would rate around 174, but wouldn't be nearly as "nice."

 




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