That's a trailer sailer!

Marty Gingras

Mid-range Anarchist
My 48’ boat is pretty easy to trailer, no permits needed. 7’ wide 8’6” trailer width, about 65’ total length of vehicle and boat…

1670346769447.png
Incredibly cool.
 
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TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
Gorgeous, if you can afford the bills for maintenance.

But what's the deal with the rudder? It seems to be an inboard retractable rudder, rather than a dinghy-style kick-up rudder.

My only experience with an inboard retractable rudder was on a Drascombe, where it was a right royal pain. A pal who currently sails a Drascombe has had a series of painful adventures with his rudder.

The problems with the Drascombe rudder are that
  1. since the rudder is either in place or removed, there is no steerage in shallow water

  2. if the rudder takes a hit, it deforms and cannot be removed. That means the boat can't be recovered on its trailer, and has to be craned out to allow a bunch of apes to beat or bend the rudder back into shape.
 

Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist
It surely would be a 'Joy' varnishing that thing every year...

But I guess putting it on the trailer and keeping it indoors climate controlled would help.
I agree. I also agree that anyone who is going to actually trailer sail this will have an indoor place to keep it when not in use.

I like the carbon rig.

Gorgeous, if you can afford the bills for maintenance.

But what's the deal with the rudder? It seems to be an inboard retractable rudder, rather than a dinghy-style kick-up rudder.

My only experience with an inboard retractable rudder was on a Drascombe, where it was a right royal pain. A pal who currently sails a Drascombe has had a series of painful adventures with his rudder.

The problems with the Drascombe rudder are that
  1. since the rudder is either in place or removed, there is no steerage in shallow water

  2. if the rudder takes a hit, it deforms and cannot be removed. That means the boat can't be recovered on its trailer, and has to be craned out to allow a bunch of apes to beat or bend the rudder back into shape.
If you're in water deep enough to have the keel down, the keel will hit before the rudder. If you have the keel up, you really can't sail, but you can get out and walk the boat with the rudder removed. If the rudder takes a hard hit, it's user error.

"Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain."
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
If you're in water deep enough to have the keel down, the keel will hit before the rudder. If you have the keel up, you really can't sail, but you can get out and walk the boat with the rudder removed. If the rudder takes a hard hit, it's user error.

"Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain."
It must be great to be a super sailor who can navigate a boat in thin water and never miscalculate or make an error. For us mere mortals, bumps happen and need to be survivable without drama.

It's also not true to say that you can't sail without the keel. An engine or a wee sliver of headsail can be used for the final approach to shore, so long as you have some steerage.

This boat looks like it's designed for use only in deep water, losing one of the great benefits of most trailer-sailers: the ability to venture into the shallows, and dry out.
 

Elegua

Generalissimo
Actually, CL is a super sailor with the credentials to prove it. I trust him with my son offshore.

Shoal draft is best treated like having a very capable off-road vehicle. It just means you get stuck where it’s much harder to extricate yourself.

If you are breaking stuff because you are running aground, you’re not respecting the limits of the boat.
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
Actually, CL is a super sailor with the credentials to prove it. I trust him with my son offshore.

Shoal draft is best treated like having a very capable off-road vehicle. It just means you get stuck where it’s much harder to extricate yourself.

If you are breaking stuff because you are running aground, you’re not respecting the limits of the boat.
The big difference between shoal draft and fully retractable keels and rudders is with the later you can often just get off and push or drag yourself out of trouble.
The other advantage particularly with swing keels and rudders is the impact with the uncharted coral bommie, rock or the like often results in a bang followed by a quick change in course and perhaps in the event of it being a fringing reef, sand bar or mudbank in the road just cranking up the keel to clear the obstacle.
It’s not so much navigation errors as like off-roading 4x4’s sometimes it’s just pushing the boundaries going different and unusual places for the experience , sights and challenge. 🙂
 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,205
1,110
SoCal
Gorgeous, if you can afford the bills for maintenance.

But what's the deal with the rudder? It seems to be an inboard retractable rudder, rather than a dinghy-style kick-up rudder.

My only experience with an inboard retractable rudder was on a Drascombe, where it was a right royal pain. A pal who currently sails a Drascombe has had a series of painful adventures with his rudder.

The problems with the Drascombe rudder are that
  1. since the rudder is either in place or removed, there is no steerage in shallow water

  2. if the rudder takes a hit, it deforms and cannot be removed. That means the boat can't be recovered on its trailer, and has to be craned out to allow a bunch of apes to beat or bend the rudder back into shape.
Well, as we said earlier, all boats are a compromise. That said, the rudder on the 2014 I posted looks different then the one on the 2003. As we can't tell if the keel is variable in height, or is meant to be an "all up or all down" version, not sure the rudder discussion matters?

Not having a kick-up rudder may be a drawback in shallow water, but rudders without kickup are generally lighter for a given foil and size, and require less maintenance/repair as the pivot point on the kickup style is eventually a failure point of some kind or another. Again, just another compromise to for individual owners to decide on.
 

Elegua

Generalissimo
The big difference between shoal draft and fully retractable keels and rudders is with the later you can often just get off and push or drag yourself out of trouble.
The other advantage particularly with swing keels and rudders is the impact with the uncharted coral bommie, rock or the like often results in a bang followed by a quick change in course and perhaps in the event of it being a fringing reef, sand bar or mudbank in the road just cranking up the keel to clear the obstacle.
It’s not so much navigation errors as like off-roading 4x4’s sometimes it’s just pushing the boundaries going different and unusual places for the experience , sights and challenge. 🙂
Yes. All of that. Swing keels and rudders that are fully retractable means you can fully beach yourself. When the tide is 10+ feet, can be a lot of dragging if it’s a light dingy (or carrying if you care about the bottom) or waiting if it’s something more substantial…. if you lost track of time 😅
 

Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist
...............

Some people have an uncanny talent for trying to turn any casual conversation into argument.
Actually, CL is a super sailor with the credentials to prove it. I trust him with my son offshore.

Shoal draft is best treated like having a very capable off-road vehicle. It just means you get stuck where it’s much harder to extricate yourself.

If you are breaking stuff because you are running aground, you’re not respecting the limits of the boat.
I thought the mark of your respect was bringing your wife aboard. Such a lovely lady.

The real reason people like me is that I almost always have extra party tix.
 

Kris Cringle

Super Anarchist
3,289
2,929
I still think this was a good design idea for shoal draft. At 36' it's not a trailer sailer. A swing keel and twin rudders.

Truly a boat you could run aground (reasonably,..) and not do any damage (don't ground on the rudders of course). That allows it to really 'gunkhole' sail.

The odd underbody I'd bet is all on account of the chord or width of the foiling board and the cabin sole, to give headroom.

I'm pretty sure this boat draws under 3'. Scaled down to trailerable size (26'?), it could maybe be closer to 2' draft. A boat you could sail in shallow water with performance dictated by depth (length of centerboard, down).

Fountain 36 (1 of 1).jpg
 

Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist
I still think this was a good design idea for shoal draft. At 36' it's not a trailer sailer. A swing keel and twin rudders.

Truly a boat you could run aground (reasonably,..) and not do any damage (don't ground on the rudders of course). That allows it to really 'gunkhole' sail.

The odd underbody I'd bet is all on account of the chord or width of the foiling board and the cabin sole, to give headroom.

I'm pretty sure this boat draws under 3'. Scaled down to trailerable size (26'?), it could maybe be closer to 2' draft. A boat you could sail in shallow water with performance dictated by depth (length of centerboard, down).

View attachment 558157
Friendship 36. I sailed one of the 40'ers with the designer and disliked the captive mainsheet system, indeed the overall reliance on systems with a relatively small boat, but the execution of these is close to flawless. The design brief for this one was driven by 3' depth at low at the owner's dock. Draft 32".

They're not, in this incarnation, cruising boats. Overnighters at best, the 40 seemed to me to be aimed at daysailing and trysting. Not my style but not my boat.
 

Grith

Member
344
122
South Australia
Yes. All of that. Swing keels and rudders that are fully retractable means you can fully beach yourself. When the tide is 10+ feet, can be a lot of dragging if it’s a light dingy (or carrying if you care about the bottom) or waiting if it’s something more substantial…. if you lost track of time 😅
10 feet That’s not a tide!😂
Try 30 feet and the water disappearing over the horizon!
Kimberley’s sailing in NW Australia.
It can also generate some pretty spectacular tidal flows the most well known being what they call the horizontal falls which is a big tourist attraction which people fly in by float plane and helicopter to experience going through in Jet boats.
You can sneak a yacht in just at the right moments but they seem to be trying to ban that unique experience now.☹️
 
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TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
Some people have an uncanny talent for trying to turn any casual conversation into argument.
but earlier

"Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain."

Get a mirror.

Call someone stupid if you want to, but if you start hurling insults, don't accuse the other person of starting an argument.

I stand by my observation that sailing in thin water requires appendages which survive the odd knock, and benefits hugely from a rudder usable in thin water.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,427
3,506
Tasmania, Australia
10 feet That’s not a tide!😂
Try 30 feet and the water disappearing over the horizon!
Kimberley’s sailing in NW Australia.
It can also generate some pretty spectacular tidal flows the most well known being what they call the horizontal falls which is a big tourist attraction which people fly in by float plane and helicopter to experience going through in Jet boats.
You can sneak a yacht in just at the right moments but they seem to be trying to ban that unique experience now.☹️

Bastards. I was there back in 1983, there was NOBODY around in those days to tell you anything at all. Almost never saw another vessel of any type let alone sharing an anchorage.

Maybe I should just keep my memories of those places because going back there will probably be quite disillusioning.

FKT
 

Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist
but earlier



Get a mirror.

Call someone stupid if you want to, but if you start hurling insults, don't accuse the other person of starting an argument.

I stand by my observation that sailing in thin water requires appendages which survive the odd knock, and benefits hugely from a rudder usable in thin water.
I did not direct the "stupidity" comment at you, that is a common quote. But it seems to have struck a nerve.

Whenever someone comes at me with "It must be great" or "It must be nice", ya don't have to be a rocket surgeon to know they want a shit fight. So the question is:

Why do you love shitfights? Why, out of all of the nice people here, do you seem so consistently determined to sow discord?

Grith is a little windy with his verbiage, I get that, but that was no reason for you to shit on him. He's a good guy, I think, and passionate. That's no sin.

I still think I'd like you in person, and usually like you here, but before you blast people, you should ask "how does this reflect on me?"

I'm fine if you don't like me, I'm a big boy, but I make no apologies.
 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,893
2,257
I did not direct the "stupidity" comment at you, that is a common quot
Disingenuous rubbish. You posted it in a brief reply to me, so your target was unambiguous.

"It must be great" or "It must be nice", ya don't have to be a rocket surgeon to know they want a shit fight
As usual, CL you invert reality. My "it must be great" comment was a reply to your sneer about stupidity. Own your actions.

I make no apologies
Indeed, you don't.
 




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