The absolute terror of incompetence

[fufkin]

I did have the one reef in the main from the outset, but it’s a damn small reef and I only have one of them. I should have had the jib furled much more when I saw how fast I was boogeying on the run, before moving to the beam, but given the second broach happened with it barely out at all I’m not sure how much it would have helped - the failure point was my poor decision making in the moment after all.

Damn was heeled over consistently 5* just motoring back in to the ball with everything tied down.

This is a major takeaway for your outing-you got a feel for what your first reef cannot handle comfortably. In similar conditions next time, go straight to the 2nd reef, and make it easy on yourself by reefing before you go out(as mentioned upthread). Many bypass the first reef as a matter of routine and go straight to the second...depending of course on sailplan/hull design/current and expected conditions.

Another data point for your outing...if things seem like they are building when you’re going down wind, they are usually building more than is apparent. Always factor that into your reefing, trimming and course setting strategy if you’re going to be coming back up wind in same or rising conditions.

 

[longy]

First, he needs to take that main back to a loft & get a second reef installed

 

[Marty Gingras]

Another data point for your outing...if things seem like they are building when you’re going down wind, they are usually building more than is apparent. Always factor that into your reefing, trimming and course setting strategy if you’re going to be coming back up wind in same or rising conditions.

It's also good - when feasible - to head upwind a while at first to make sure the boat's working and sufficient skill is on board. I've helped pull and repair a few sailing club keel boats off our lee shore because they didn't do that...

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Planning on leaving Thursday for ~10 days. Hopefully the wind comes down tomorrow afternoon as predicted, and that a couple of tide cycles are enough to settle things down. Lumpy with light airs does not agree with the wife.

 

[climenuts]

Planning on leaving Thursday for ~10 days. Hopefully the wind comes down tomorrow afternoon as predicted, and that a couple of tide cycles are enough to settle things down. Lumpy with light airs does not agree with the wife.

Unfortunately every buoy in the Georgia Basin other than Sentry Shoal is M.I.A. so you'll need to rely on lightstation reports for wave conditions.

 

[TheDragon]

Rain, I sailed six months across the South Pacific last year with little prior ocean sailing experience and only saw what I guestimate at 30 knots three times (no wind instruments, but lots of experience of that strength wind from kitesurfing, a little from sailing my previous small cabin boats on our local lake). Each time I was already down to triple-reefed main and staysail. On two of those occasions the waves had built so high they were occasionally slamming the boat as they broke against her because we were on a beam reach, so to get some peace for the night I doused the main completely and bore off to a broad reach for about 24 hours, even getting some sleep. You can see the beginning of one of these nights in the vid below.

The secret, as others have said above, is to have lots of reefs in your main (I would love to have a fourth reef, or if I get a new main, three deeper reefs). If you are in constrained water, always head upwind first so you can bear off if things get hectic. As you discovered, going from relatively peaceful downwind sailing to a beam reach can be a radical increase in apparent wind strength and boat heel, requiring quick reduction of sail, preferably before you round up. Your boat is a sloop, so without a staysail as on my cutter, you will have trouble handling very strong conditions even with a mostly furled jib, it is simply too high up compared with a small staysail nearer to the mast.

 

[Raincoast]

Thanks everyone. Yes, after writing all that out last night I was able to analyze things a bit better and tell myself all I did was take a “whipper” in climbing terms. Not even a bad one.

I spent the morning installing my solar and ripping out some spaghetti, and then went out and just rode the lightning for four hours straight. Kept the main reefed and the jib half in and all was well, gradually letting out more and more jib as I got comfortable. Discovered in calmer conditions that, yeah, there is an absurd wind tunnel effect at the end of the sister islands where wind blowing down the two long harbours out of ganges meets up, which is precisely where I had my bad time yesterday. I know to avoid places like that now.

Did a mountain of singlehanded tacks and gybes, really focused on getting a feel for thing… and then seven of my fifteen plastic mainsail slugs exploded so I limped it back to port.

This mainsail is an ongoing utter bitch. It only has one reef and that reef doesn’t really fully reef, the sail doesn’t fit the boat because it wasn’t made for it - it’s a slightly too small custom carbon fibre beauty (there’s apparently a racing crew story behind how the PO got it from L&Mcbride). The outhaul is jerry-rigged because of the size and the main sheet traveller is down inside the cockpit well so I damn near need an outhaul for the boom.

I was committed to learning around it, because it looks totally sick, but now that I‘m having to replace all my mast slugs I wonder if I should just stuff it in the Vberth and dig out the old Dacron main for the summer. She’s still in good shape.

 

[TheDragon]

Thanks everyone. Yes, after writing all that out last night I was able to analyze things a bit better and tell myself all I did was take a “whipper” in climbing terms. Not even a bad one.

I spent the morning installing my solar and ripping out some spaghetti, and then went out and just rode the lightning for four hours straight. Kept the main reefed and the jib half in and all was well, gradually letting out more and more jib as I got comfortable. Discovered in calmer conditions that, yeah, there is an absurd wind tunnel effect at the end of the sister islands where wind blowing down the two long harbours out of ganges meets up, which is precisely where I had my bad time yesterday. I know to avoid places like that now.

Did a mountain of singlehanded tacks and gybes, really focused on getting a feel for thing… and then seven of my fifteen plastic mainsail slugs exploded so I limped it back to port.

This mainsail is an ongoing utter bitch. It only has one reef and that reef doesn’t really fully reef, the sail doesn’t fit the boat because it wasn’t made for it - it’s a slightly too small custom carbon fibre beauty (there’s apparently a racing crew story behind how the PO got it from L&Mcbride). The outhaul is jerry-rigged because of the size and the main sheet traveller is down inside the cockpit well so I damn near need an outhaul for the boom.

I was committed to learning around it, because it looks totally sick, but now that I‘m having to replace all my mast slugs I wonder if I should just stuff it in the Vberth and dig out the old Dacron main for the summer. She’s still in good shape.

Indeed, sounds like a racing main, never truly intended to be reefed (I used to race double-handed with a friend in Cape Town on a 27footer, and he did not even have reef points in the main, only sail selection was jib size (1, 2 or 3), so all the way up to 30 knots we just had to hang on to the main). Stick it below and get that dacron main out, should be far better. If you have any reason to believe you will face strong conditions, start out with at least one reef in it.

 

[SloopJonB]

If you have any reason to believe you will face strong conditions, start out with at least one reef in it.

Two early lessons were;

It's much easier to shake out a reef than to tuck one in.

Reef as soon as the thought crosses your mind.

 

[Cruisin Loser]

Thanks everyone. Yes, after writing all that out last night I was able to analyze things a bit better and tell myself all I did was take a “whipper” in climbing terms. Not even a bad one.

We were doing Malice in Bucketland at Hueco Tanks once and a guy on Sea of Holes demo'd the difference between a whipper and a screamer. He's 40' out from his last bolt and tired, pulling with his arms, not watching his feet, technique gone. He reaches the bolt and manages, barely, to hang a draw, but doesn't have the strength to pull slack and clip. He's reduced to hanging onto the draw with both hands and whimpering "I'm falling". When he peels he has time to scream out his lungs, inhale and start screaming again before he comes to rest. A joy to watch.

A pic of my previous boat at the start of the 2011 Marion-Bermuda to keep something nautical going.

 

[Zonker]

When you replace all the plastic slugs (not just the ones that failed because the others must have UV damage too) replace the top 2 ones at the headboard and at the reef point with coated metal ones.

 

[fufkin]

When you replace all the plastic slugs (not just the ones that failed because the others must have UV damage too) replace the top 2 ones at the headboard and at the reef point with coated metal ones.

Or skip replacing the plastic slugs, invest in a full battened batt car system, have the sail maker stitch the system into the ‘in good shape’ Dacron sail, and get on with the show.

If you’re talking short handed reefing and good sail shape when reefed, going to a full battened batt car system with lazy jacks is a no brainer. Harken is recommended. Worth every penny.

 

[Zonker]

It's a C&C 27 for god's sake.

Lazy jacks sure.

A full battened main is a LOT harder to get reefed when running downwind.

I also think a Harken roller bearing car system is way overkill (and the track is lots of extra weight up high)

 

[fufkin]

It's a C&C 27 for god's sake.

Lazy jacks sure.

A full battened main is a LOT harder to get reefed when running downwind.

I also think a Harken roller bearing car system is way overkill (and the track is lots of extra weight up high)

I thought rains boat was over 30 (for God’s sake?)

On my 31 a full battened harken system is absolutely in no way overkill, can be reefed downwind and along with a couple of other upgrades, probably the best couple of boat bucks I’ve ever spent. The system is 30 years young, looks and works as good as new(fresh water) and the weight aloft is negligible, especially when compared with the overkill(and in my mind garbage) in mast furling systems on boats of a similar size.

I’d pass go and skip to the Dacron sail immediately(ok skip the battcars it’s a c&c 27) Fixing a racing sail that doesn’t fit the boat would not be high on my list of priorities.

Each to their own

 

[Raincoast]

Nah, this is a ‘74 C&C 27 in rough cosmetic shape approaching the end of it’s life. I paid $6500 for it and have put as much into the repairs needed to stay afloat and safe, but she’s not getting performance upgrades - we bought her to sail aggressively and learn on for a year or two and then sell at a loss to buy a 30’~33’ offshore capable boat. We’re in our early thirties, economy is shit, cost of housing insane, we’re focused on getting gone with some savings not fancy hardware.

We put the Dacron main back on while we sew the slides back onto the carbon, it’s pretty bagged out and the loss of power in light air was visceral. Also has a number of pinholes, pretty sure it would have shredded in those winds on Monday night.

 

[Panoramix]

It's a C&C 27 for god's sake.

Lazy jacks sure.

A full battened main is a LOT harder to get reefed when running downwind.

I also think a Harken roller bearing car system is way overkill (and the track is lots of extra weight up high)

+1 on this, keep things stupid simple, the roller bearing car system is a complication needed only on bigger boats.

 

[fufkin]

Nah, this is a ‘74 C&C 27 in rough cosmetic shape approaching the end of it’s life. I paid $6500 for it and have put as much into the repairs needed to stay afloat and safe, but she’s not getting performance upgrades - we bought her to sail aggressively and learn on for a year or two and then sell at a loss to buy a 30’~33’ offshore capable boat. We’re in our early thirties, economy is shit, cost of housing insane, we’re focused on getting gone with some savings not fancy hardware.

We put the Dacron main back on while we sew the slides back onto the carbon, it’s pretty bagged out and the loss of power in light air was visceral. Also has a number of pinholes, pretty sure it would have shredded in those winds on Monday night.

Ok got it. Sounds like a plan and a good stepping stone boat. In fact there’s an old one in need of some cosmetic attention right beside my boat.

I’m still fuzzy on the main sail details. Is the Dacron in decent shape or not?...or is that the one that would have shredded? If it’s decent, weigh the cost of a recut(to flatten) vs fixing the slugs and adding a second reef on the racing main(which won’t keep its shape for nearly as long) The recut could cost should be cheap.

A re cut, usually along the foot where an old main develops a belly, is a cheap and cheerful way to improve your upwind performance in a blow, reefed or not.

 

[Marty Gingras]

We put the Dacron main back on while we sew the slides back onto the carbon, it’s pretty bagged out and the loss of power in light air was visceral.

Would probably benefit from 'easing the luff bolt rope.' Check out this thread:

Tell us about "easing the bolt rope"

I stumbled across 'easing the bolt rope' a few weeks ago then implemented it to great effect on a reasonably good-looking dacron main. I'm pretty stoked. Not many in my circle seem to know about the issue, can identify the issue in real life, and have implemented the technique. I could only...

forums.sailinganarchy.com

Since that thread, I've eased the luff bolt rope on another couple of old mains and a jib. Worked every time.

 

[Raincoast]

Ok got it. Sounds like a plan and a good stepping stone boat. In fact there’s an old one in need of some cosmetic attention right beside my boat.

I’m still fuzzy on the main sail details. Is the Dacron in decent shape or not?...or is that the one that would have shredded? If it’s decent, weigh the cost of a recut(to flatten) vs fixing the slugs and adding a second reef on the racing main(which won’t keep its shape for nearly as long) The recut could cost should be cheap.

A re cut, usually along the foot where an old main develops a belly, is a cheap and cheerful way to improve your upwind performance in a blow, reefed or not.

The Dacron is pretty worn we discovered, found a few concerning pinholes which I put some sail repair tape over, had it been up Monday instead of the carbon I suspect it would have blown out in those conditions. It might be worth a recut, I need to give it a thorough inspection. We’re re-stitching the slides onto the carbon main anyways, no downside to having options.

Thanks for the luff bolt rope tip, Marty, I’ll take a look at that.

 

[Raincoast]

Well since the last posting things had been going pretty great. Fixed the carbon main, no more terror sailing the boat, had her heeled way over a few times for comfort training and at one point managed to get Navionics reading a solid 7.6kn for most of the day. Just endless days of riding like I stole her, doing laps all day long in the windiest part of the gulf islands. Should have tried sailing her on and off the mooring and other practical seamanship matters, in hindsight, instead of just hooning around.

But then Monday.

Monday we backed over the dingy line whilst setting the anchor, due to a variety of factors. Tight anchorage, divers mucking about randomly in it, leeway from a seaward breeze, and for no good reason other than juggling all of this - tying the dinghy off at the stern rather than the bow during anchoring and not checking the line was as short as possible. We had a perfectly fine anchor spot the past few days but had decided to move further in and save ourselves 3-4 minutes of rowing to shore. The dangers of laziness.

Prop sucked the dinghy line in at over 3000 RPM when we were bearing down to set anchor, severed it clean, wrapped the shaft, immediately stopped the engine. Hard. Family snorkling nearby took the line off the prop and said it wasn’t too bad - tried a restart and the transmission sounded like garbage and stalled the engine out. Engine was fine in full neutral mode, however.

I went over with a mask and discovered the prop strut torqued 40-60 degrees clockwise to port, the prop shaft bent along with it and obviously seized. Frankly, I’m amazed this can even happen without ripping the strut right out of the bottom of the boat and sinking it. Or destroying the shaft log. Maybe it did, I couldn’t get that close to inspect. Needless to say, auxiliary power is dead. But hey, not sinking. No new leaks discovered.

Spent a stressful 48 hours as sitting ducks in a mooring field full of speedboats, with a 16kg hopefully set Delta + 20m of chain, in 5-8m tidal flux of water, and a 5kg Bruce which I roughly set as a stern anchor by rowing the dinghy - to keep us oriented bow towards the consistent wind funnel off the shore and act as a Hail Mary if the Delta dragged.

Initially I jumped to “well, fuck, this boat is scrap now”, followed closely by “I guess I could throw an outboard on it in the water, and that will be the new power plant?”. Reviewed the weather forecast on Tuesday, hardened the fuck up, told myself I have a perfectly functional sailboat in all respects and that requiring a tow as long as that remains the case is for the incompetent. Cool, training wheels are off, time to get real or get out of this business. Decided if the wind held to the forecasted E/W we could make it the 19nm home to the buoy without being becalmed for too long if at all. Mooring field would be spicy, but if we got out of the field here safely we could get also on our ball as long as there was a breeze.

So that’s what we did. Sailed off the anchor at 10am in 3-4 knots of gentle breeze off the shore, a bit stressful with low tide but we had favourable conditions. Rode a beautiful single tack most of the way from Saanich Inlet to Ganges. Then the wind started absolutely howling right as we got in. 20-25kn gusts funnelling straight into the harbour, whitecaps and rolling swell. We made two passes at the buoy, couldn’t get close, in the process came within meters of ping-ponging off two neighbouring anchored zombies, a shitty floating dock segment, and the wreck which burned and sank next to me a month ago. Place is truly a nightmare for navigating even under engine if it isn’t flat calm, really.

Did forty tacks back out of the harbour to kill time. Barely 1/5th of the jib unfurled and the main reefed + max eased. Despite towing a dinghy and the prop being seized and dragging way off centre, we were still hitting 6kn the whole damn time. Spray coming over the dodger from the swells. Exhausting.

Sensed a shift so came about and coasted back in on a run just as the wind died off, straight downwind right onto the buoy. Threaded some evening regatta from the yacht club, picked the mooring, high fived, and collapsed exhausted from the stress. Packed her up for the winter.

I’ll come out in November when I’m home from work and pull the transmission to see how garbled it is. Can’t imagine restoring power will be cheaper than $2k just for parts, though, the shaft & strut are fucked. Also not sure how I’ll sail her into any of the local fucking travelifts to do the repair. Not optimistic the engine itself is going to be happy sitting there full of seawater and not running for the next 7-8 months, either.

But we certainly feel a lot less incompetent than we did in April after today, despite the painful admission price of total driveline destruction via fouled dinghy line.