Thewas
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Don't get me wrong: they'll publish an AC37 Protocol but with no other challengers involved it will became, after an eventual 1 v 1, the AC38 protocol. CTRL+C CTRL+V
The AC 37 has started, news and rumours
- Thread starter mako23
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Don't get me wrong: they'll publish an AC37 Protocol but with no other challengers involved it will became, after an eventual 1 v 1, the AC38 protocol. CTRL+C CTRL+V
Blitzkrieg9
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Gotcha. Thanks. Sorry for my confusion. Also, I probably made my initial comment prior to reading your later comments.
Blitzkrieg9
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How does that violate the DoG? My and my buddy can write the protocol for AC42 if we want. That doesn't break any rules. Rather, its just a meaningless piece of paper. Any work on the protocol for AC38 (released to the public or not) is just preparatory but has no legal bearing.
porthos
Super Anarchist
If AC37 is a 1v1 around the Isle of Wright (as rumored), the protocol for AC38 will have to be substantially more involved as it will have to contain stuff for a CSS and would surely have a different court. So it cant just be ctrl + c, ctrl + v.
But my original point is if this is the order of events -- AC37 protocol published, AC38 protocol published, AC37 event -- I expect someone to challenge that as not permitted by the Deed.
Blitzkrieg9
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I think the sailing world would love this. The protocol for AC38 would have no legal bearing. It would merely be an advanced copy of the probable future protocol. It wouldn't come into effect until the conclusion of AC37.
So, really it would serve the competition by giving them a head start on their campaigns. Who would (and how can) anyone object to that?
Rennmaus
Super Anarchist
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porthos
Super Anarchist
The argument would be that the Protocol only comes into being via the "mutual consent" clause of the Deed, and "mutual consent" in turn requires a challenger and defender. The Deed also prohibits any new challenge for the Cup to be considered until the current challenge is completed. So until AC37 is done, there is no challenger or defender for AC38, and if there is no challenger or defender for AC38 there can be no mutual consent and no protocol.
Now, ETNZ and INEOS can certainly publish the AC38 protocol early and say "this is what we intend to use," but they can't bind anyone to it until AC37 is done. From the press release ("agreeing to the AC75 is a condition of entry"), it sounds like ETNZ and INEOS are planning on binding teams to the format of the event in AC38 before AC37 is done. I guess we'll see.
porthos
Super Anarchist
Rennmaus
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strider470
Super Anarchist
I think I'll take some screenshots of people's reaction to the 1 - 1 match hypothesis here and post them in a few years when some new defenders do the same, excluding TNZ and UK from the challengers. 
porthos
Super Anarchist
Could very well be and I hope that is the case. But here is the potential rub: are you going to invest $75,000,000 on a non-binding promise? That's a gamble. "Trust us -- I know we are publishing this protocol for AC38 three years in advance, and we are going to hold another AC before that with just us, and until we are done with that this isn't binding, and please ignore that this event has a history of some shitfuckery occurring, so please just send us $1,000,000 and get busy with your team."
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strider470
Super Anarchist
I totally agree. It would be almost impossible to find a sponsor until a proper protocol is published and legally valid...
dg_sailingfan
Super Anarchist
The Italians will never win the Cup just like the Brits will never win it. That's a BOLD Prediction from me.I think I'll take some screenshots of people's reaction to the 1 - 1 match hypothesis here and post them in a few years when some new defenders do the same, excluding TNZ and UK from the challengers.
strider470
Super Anarchist
IPLore
Super Anarchist
Let's look at this carefully. The Deed says:
The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may, by mutual consent,make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to ... any and all other conditions of the match,
The deed also says : "no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."
The press release regarding AC37 says that a condition of entry for AC 38 is agreeing that the AC75 will be the class of yacht for AC 37 and AC38.
The AC75 has been chosen for AC 37, so that part is moot and doesnt transgress any part of the DoG, and falls under the MC clause.
If AC 37 is just a 1 vs 1, then the condition of entry requirement is moot because there will be no other entries.
Can RYS and RNZYC agree ahead of time that they will use AC75s in AC 38? They can agree but can they make that agreement binding on each other? One question revolves around "considered". Almost every challenge of the last few decades is contemplated before the end of the prior event, because the challenge is extensively discussed and then presented with seconds of the finish of the event. RNZYC even tells us that they turn off emails and phones so that they only receive the challenge that they have already discussed and got outline heads of agreement on. Clearly the outline terms issues have been considered. I think the word considered her is used in its meaning as accepted. A new challenge cannot be accepted until the prior event is finished.
The challenge for AC 37 specified AC 75s A challenge for AC38 cannot be accepted until AC 37 is complete. It is highly likely that outline protocols have been agreed before events are completed. The question is , can the challenger and defender publish those draft protocols, although they are not binding until the challenge is actually accepted.
Lets examine if there is a multi challenger AC37. Can the entry terms specify that who ever wins, they must only accept a challenge from a YC that will mutually agree to use the AC75s? Can a bnding contract exist that If LR wins must they only accept a challenge from a club that has previously agreed to use the AC75? Can such a term be put in an entry and be binding?
In Bermuda when all the teams except NZ agreed to continue using the AC45 before the event was over, was this somehow in breach of the deed?
Rennmaus
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I've read it. Otherwise it would have been a good guess to know about a 10 month notice period and restrictions on dates based on Hemisphere.
The question is, if both CoR and Defender are happy to break it can another team challenge and override the original CoR? I would assume yes.
IPLore
Super Anarchist
Assuming for a moment that AC37 is a multichallenge event and assuming that RYS , RNZYC and the likely challengers share the laudable goal of providing some certainty/consistency of using AC75s for both AC37 and AC38. This will make the investment in attending 37 more worth while because it is a 2 cycle investment in the technology etc.
How would they go about achieving that goal.
One of the teams will be the defender and as defender they can choose their challenger. So a team that supports the AC75 will likely ensure that the AC 75 will be selected. How to nake that legally binding is very hard.
All of the entering teams could sign a commitment saying they will seek to achieve mutual consent with a challenger to select the AC75. Can it be a binding contract? If the contract did not consider or contemplate a specific challenger, but merely agreed that this would be a term.
How would they go about achieving that goal.
One of the teams will be the defender and as defender they can choose their challenger. So a team that supports the AC75 will likely ensure that the AC 75 will be selected. How to nake that legally binding is very hard.
All of the entering teams could sign a commitment saying they will seek to achieve mutual consent with a challenger to select the AC75. Can it be a binding contract? If the contract did not consider or contemplate a specific challenger, but merely agreed that this would be a term.
