The AC 37 has started, news and rumours

[winchfodder]

@strider470the one I quoted.

POSSIBLE BULLSHIT AHEAD, so don't blame me later.
**** NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, JUST SPECULATION ****

To have your opinion on the matter

Ok, beware, this is fiction, not a rumour. but what if:

UK and NZ decide for a Match very soon, let's say in 1 year, in 2022, in these very boats with minor updates to version 1.5.

Not really a DoG match, but simply one not contemplating a Challenger series in the new mutual agreed protocol. Maybe to be held in UK, if the right bid for the venue is made from Ratcliffe.

In this way, GD can maintain his assets in ETNZ (design and sailing team) and the development of the boat is already there. NZ gains a ton of money from Ratcliffe for this chance and they both plan a subsequent normal AC in NZ (or the UK) 2 years later, in 2024, to maintain the usual scheduling for other subsequent challengers.

In this way, both NZ and the UK will be there with 2.0 boats and an edge compared to other challengers, and GD would have no problems with funding.

In need of Renne!

As a COR hip pocket challenge can the RYS (INEOS) agree terms of a Match (boats, venue, rules etc) with RNZYS that excludes all other challengers? 

Would such an agreement allow a challenger shut out to appeal to the Arbitration Panel and then NYSC and failing insist on a DoG match. 

As I understand it a DoG match is one on one (Blue Arrow were excluded in 1988 - just one match at a time allowed).

P.S. RNZYS and GD presumably want as many challengers as possible to earn monies in NZ so wouldn't agree to a one on one INEOS match under their COR.

 

[The Advocate]

In need of Renne!

As a COR hip pocket challenge can the RYS (INEOS) agree terms of a Match (boats, venue, rules etc) with RNZYS that excludes all other challengers? 

Would such an agreement allow a challenger shut out to appeal to the Arbitration Panel and then NYSC and failing insist on a DoG match. 

As I understand it a DoG match is one on one (Blue Arrow were excluded in 1993 - just one match at a time allowed).

Yes

Yes to Arbitration, no to NYSC.

A pure DoG match, yes.

 

[JALhazmat]

So explain how that works....

Your a big boy, figure it out. 

 

[JALhazmat]

I think they won't, because that would start a "war" and the AC would never be the same for years to come.

Now think only if Prada and Alinghi would have done such an agreement.

End of the day it’s up to the holder 

 

[The Advocate]

Your a big boy, figure it out. 

Yep, thought it was a thought vomit.

 

[strider470]

End of the day it’s up to the holder 

Yes, but I suspect ETNZ image, worldwide, would be greatly affected. So far they are (deservedly) the single team most supported by neutrals. That means someghing for sponsorhip. Should they join the dark side...

 

[JALhazmat]

Yep, thought it was a thought vomit.

GD gets the event underwritten by INEOS, drastically reducing funding requirements, his pocket billionaires cover the team bill and small upgrades keeping grubby mitts off his team and by the time they are done in the Solent the world economy and boat class has evolved far enough to attract new entries for a full go back in NZ and picking up the Gov funding.

While the two of them are fighting it out in cowes the only options to be picked up and picked over by the waiting Alinghi Is American magic and Prada 

 

[JALhazmat]

Yes, but I suspect ETNZ image, worldwide, would be greatly affected. So far they are (deservedly) the single team most supported by neutrals. That means someghing for sponsorhip. Should they join the dark side...

If it keeps the team together they will 

 

[strider470]

If it keeps the team together they will 

The War of the Ring would be a skirmish in comparison to what will follow such a decision...

 

[Dave S]

GDs aim is to keep the team together end of story, IF the 1-1 event against INEOS is the best way to achieve that while giving stability to new syndicates to build towards a return to NZ in 2024 then it would be stupid to turn it down.

Thinking some more, there's a bit of a problem with this, and it's because of the DoG challenge. So TNZ and Ineos can have some sort of gentlemen's agreement that, whoever wins in 2022, the event is back in 2024 in AC75s. That's fine for those two teams, and because they can also manage the challenging process at the end of the 2022 race, they can both be pretty confident 2024 will happen.

The problem is for everyone else. It's fine for TNZ and Ineos to tell everyone else they can come back in 2024, but it doesn't give them any sort of guarantee. Because they're not part of the process they can't be 100% confident that TNZ and Ineos won't screw up the challenging process in 2022 and be forced to accept a DoG challenge, make significant changes to the rule, or even change their minds completely. It doesn't matter if TNZ and Ineos have no intention of doing any of those things, the other teams can't be absolutely certain that nothing will go wrong. Because of that, they're on hold until late 2022; they can't make significant investment or attract funding. With an uncertain future they may be unable to justify retaining key personnel, and the teams effectively fall apart.

If TNZ and Ineos both want to keep the format we've just seen and grow the event, which definitely seems to be the case, they have to give certainty to all the other teams, and a two-boat event in 2022 removes that certainty. However, what would work (potentially very well indeed) would be an event in AC75s that isn't the Cup. If there's anything at all in the rumour of an event in the UK next year, maybe that's what's actually being discussed.

 

[Rennmaus]

In need of Renne!

As a COR hip pocket challenge can the RYS (INEOS) agree terms of a Match (boats, venue, rules etc) with RNZYS that excludes all other challengers? 

Would such an agreement allow a challenger shut out to appeal to the Arbitration Panel and then NYSC and failing insist on a DoG match. 

As I understand it a DoG match is one on one (Blue Arrow were excluded in 1988 - just one match at a time allowed).

P.S. RNZYS and GD presumably want as many challengers as possible to earn monies in NZ so wouldn't agree to a one on one INEOS match under their COR.

1l Yes, it would be the purest regatta the DoG envisaged. A 1:1 under MC. 

2) They can appeal wherever they want, but that won't mean that the appeal is accepted or the decision made in their favor. 

3) A DoG match, as we call it, is a 1:1 without MC. Eyesailor (?) has set up a great nomenclature in another thread. 

 

[meglin]

Sir Ben was on the ETNZ chase boat yesterday, the challenge has almost certainly been received.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

@strider470the one I quoted.

POSSIBLE BULLSHIT AHEAD, so don't blame me later.
**** NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, JUST SPECULATION ****

To have your opinion on the matter

Ok, beware, this is fiction, not a rumour. but what if:

UK and NZ decide for a Match very soon, let's say in 1 year, in 2022, in these very boats with minor updates to version 1.5.

Not really a DoG match, but simply one not contemplating a Challenger series in the new mutual agreed protocol. Maybe to be held in UK, if the right bid for the venue is made from Ratcliffe.

In this way, GD can maintain his assets in ETNZ (design and sailing team) and the development of the boat is already there. NZ gains a ton of money from Ratcliffe for this chance and they both plan a subsequent normal AC in NZ (or the UK) 2 years later, in 2024, to maintain the usual scheduling for other subsequent challengers.

In this way, both NZ and the UK will be there with 2.0 boats and an edge compared to other challengers, and GD would have no problems with funding.

It makes sense. I would twist the deed though: 1) a venue that would not be in the defender's waters 2) another one not in the defenders waters if the brits win.

 

[react]

LSD posted and pulled this:

https://www.livesaildie.com/breaking-news-exclusive-video-37th-americas-cup-challenger-of-record-announced-in-rnzys-ballroom/

Google's cache has the tl;dr tho:










11 hours ago — To the surprise of nobody, the Royal Yacht Squadron, represented by INEOS Team UK, have been announced as the CoR. However, Luna ...









 
And these guys scraped it sans video:
 
https://portal4sport.com/sports/sailing/breaking-news-exclusive-video-37th-americas-cup-challenger-of-record-announced-in-rnzys-ballroom/








 

 

[KingMonkey]

The UK Times as the source of the DoG-style RTI rumour was Brad Butterworth. 

So you can make of that what you will...

 

[antoine]

Not able to get through the proper challenger series, so Ineos is buying a spot in the cup..

 

[JALhazmat]

while the wild speculation is running rife what if old butter balls has been selective with his leak?

agreed defence in NZ for 2024, but with a one on one race around the island as a spectacle underwritten by Jim as a hype build, NOT a DOG challenge.

a bit of extra racing and in an epic challenge with all the history you could ask for, would also serve as a bloody good test of evolved boats and rules BEFORE publishing the agreed rule for the defence in NZ, instead of turning up with untested boats like they did this time, real time data and testing so that the new teams knew what they were buying into.

Is that unfair on the other teams? well I don't see anyone else putting hands in pockets to pay/facilitate it, would it keep the Kiwi faithful happy that the cup was being defended in home waters? does it keep the kiwi  public money locked in? yes to all of that as well as being a bloody good showcase for the evolution of the boats and to a wider audience who can get on the hype train.

everyone complains there is fuck all on between cycles and that boats get scrapped as soon as they finish a cycle so what better way to eek out a bit of value.

new entrants getting stroppy they wouldn't be part of it? even if they started today they wouldn't be ready in time.

hell lets just see what the truth is when they announce it, half a mind thinking that GD would forgoe the INEOS IOW offer just to make Brad look like a prick

 

[KingMonkey]

Love Sail Die believes the U.K. event would be a RTI hype race between defender and CoR which sounds more likely. 

 

[JALhazmat]

Love Sail Die believes the U.K. event would be a RTI hype race between defender and CoR which sounds more likely. 

But that didn’t suit the BB “leak” so left it out for Maximum shit flinging 

 

[Forourselves]

I think the CSS will be held in the UK with the match in NZ.