The AC 37 has started, news and rumours

[Blitzkrieg9]

It's a tad more complicated than that and nowhere near as scary as you may think it is. We have a hierarchical court system with trial courts at the bottom, appellate courts in the middle, and the supreme court of the state (they may call it something else but there is always one top court) at the top.  A decision by a trial court judge (such as J. Kornreich) is almost never binding beyond the case in which the ruling is made. In other words, a different trial court isn't bound by what a previous trial court did. Now, the trial court may find what the prior trial court decided to be persuasive and a good idea, but it wouldn't be binding. 

Trial courts always have to follow the precedent (prior opinions) of the courts of appeal and the supreme court. 

In all of that, there are ample opportunities to either overturn a prior decision by a trial court or distinguish it as involving different facts such that it doesn't apply.

+1,000.  At last!  I've found *somebody* that knows US law. Well done. Well done. 

 

[Rennmaus]

Ahem.  Yes. Yes they will. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States

Well, they explicitly didn't in GGYC vs. SNG. Otherwise we wouldn't have had VLC in Feb. I thought we were talking AC here.

 

[jaysper]

Put yourself in Grant Dalton's shoes.  He has to raise a LOT of money.  Again.  And this time airlines like Emirates are broke.  What are you going to do?

So if someone offers a huge bucket of money to have a quick race (Isle of Wight), followed by a 'normal' series afterwards (the two events they have fixed the AC75 for), in NZ, and that made all your funding problems disappear, you'd be mad not to find some way to pull that off.  Wouldn't you? 

Nope.

No particular problem with the Isle of Wight. But fucking with the DoG like that is a deal breaker.

 

[45Roller]

I've got my copy on order 

 

[accnick]

Possibly. 

The NYSC decided that the paragraph describing the challenging club and a vessel propelled by sails built in the country of the challenger/defender could not be amended by mutual consent. (GGYC vs SNG)

The Spanish shell club and its challenge were not allowed.

The dimensions of the vessel come in a later paragraph.  Not sure if they comprise rules and regulations of the match which could be amended by mutual consent. I doubt Defemder and CoR would want to take the risk of going outside those specs, so when NYC wanted to go to 12 meters, it asked the court to amend the dimensions first.

That amendment to reduce the LWL is a precedent that the court today would probably follow. You want to reduce LWL? Amend the DoG.

 

[Blitzkrieg9]

Well, they explicitly didn't in GGYC vs. SNG. Otherwise we wouldn't have had VLC in Feb. I thought we were talking AC here.

Dude. I'm sorry. You keep making blanket statements regarding the authority of the US Courts. I provide examples that prove your assertions wrong.  Then you attack me.  I'm done bro. I'm sorry. I won't contradict you further.  You win. 

 

[strider470]

I've got my copy on order 

View attachment 435534

cazzo, ho finito i likes! torno dopo

 

[marlowe]

Put yourself in Grant Dalton's shoes.  He has to raise a LOT of money.  Again.  And this time airlines like Emirates are broke.  What are you going to do?

So if someone offers a huge bucket of money to have a quick race (Isle of Wight), followed by a 'normal' series afterwards (the two events they have fixed the AC75 for), in NZ, and that made all your funding problems disappear, you'd be mad not to find some way to pull that off.  Wouldn't you? 

So as a Kiwi you'd be okay with the risk of losing the Cup in a foreign country just over a year after ETNZ won it? And if that happened you'd be okay with hosting an AC in Auckland where ETNZ would be one of several challengers and not guaranteed to be in the match?

 

[strider470]

So as a Kiwi you'd be okay with the risk of losing the Cup in a foreign country just over a year after ETNZ won it? And if that happened you'd be okay with hosting an AC in Auckland where ETNZ would be one of several challengers and not guaranteed to be in the match?

I think GD actually prefers to put the teams in the CSS to have more training in race. And being in NZ they would have much more races and visibility as a challenger

 

[dhebbs]

So as a Kiwi you'd be okay with the risk of losing the Cup in a foreign country just over a year after ETNZ won it? And if that happened you'd be okay with hosting an AC in Auckland where ETNZ would be one of several challengers and not guaranteed to be in the match?

If the alternative is loosing the Kiwi design team to billionaire overseas teams because I simply can't scrape the dosh together, then, well, I wouldn't love it, but I am open to the idea of guaranteeing TNZ a serious crack at the whip.

 

[Rennmaus]

Dude. I'm sorry. You keep making blanket statements regarding the authority of the US Courts. I provide examples that prove your assertions wrong.  Then you attack me.  I'm done bro. I'm sorry. I won't contradict you further.  You win. 

Whatever girl. I have no idea where I attacked you, au contraire, I sometimes even enjoyed the "conversation". But if you feel attacked, I will scroll on when you post. No big deal.

 

[Blitzkrieg9]

Whatever girl. I have no idea where I attacked you, au contraire, I sometimes even enjoyed the "conversation". But if you feel attacked, I will scroll on when you post. No big deal.

I've enjoyed the conversation as well, my friend. But you talk a lot in terms of "can or can not" when most of the time you should be saying "will or will not".   

I think we'd be on the same page 100% then. Will the courts do X?  No, no they will not. *Can* the courts do X?  Yes.  Emphatically YES. 

There is a huge gulf between "can" and "will" 

 

[accnick]

I've enjoyed the conversation as well, my friend. But you talk a lot in terms of "can or can not" when most of the time you should be saying "will or will not".   

I think we'd be on the same page 100% then. Will the courts do X?  No, no they will not. *Can* the courts do X?  Yes.  Emphatically YES. 

There is a huge gulf between "can" and "will" 

"Could do" and "might do" may be more suitable terms.

As we used to say in sailing, anyone who goes into a protest hearing claiming to know how the jury will decide hasn't been involved in many protests. A court isn't necessarily any different.

 

[sfigone]

Correct, the AC75 has been raced in lighter conditions than the AC50. Let's say it can survive in stronger conditions, how low can their batteries last ? and the crew ?

I think we need to get rid of large energy stores for all classes of sailing.  This includes canters that do offshore races with a diesel generator running the whole time.

Make them use hydro generators to charge batteries (or oil bombs) that can only handle a few manoeuvres .  This will not only stop them being power boats, but bring in a new aspect of variability.  Imagine a tacking duel where both boats are near the bottom of their energy store, so after each tack they have a choice between boat speed or charging their store ready for the next manoeuvre.    Boats that can sail fast without constant foil adjustments will have a benefit as they will have less drag from less charging.

Load on the grinders is more difficult, as you don't want them stroking out.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

Wow, 13 pages, a frenzy of outraged indignation over something that hasn't even been decided yet?

This must set some new kind of SA record??!

(... probably not :wacko: )

If the NYYC feels obliged to react, the possibility is high enough to be worth commenting it.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

I think we need to get rid of large energy stores for all classes of sailing.  This includes canters that do offshore races with a diesel generator running the whole time.

Make them use hydro generators to charge batteries (or oil bombs) that can only handle a few manoeuvres .  This will not only stop them being power boats, but bring in a new aspect of variability.  Imagine a tacking duel where both boats are near the bottom of their energy store, so after each tack they have a choice between boat speed or charging their store ready for the next manoeuvre.    Boats that can sail fast without constant foil adjustments will have a benefit as they will have less drag from less charging.

Load on the grinders is more difficult, as you don't want them stroking out.

I could not agree more, we have to ban energy storage, allow racing between 5 to 40 kts and have a variety of courses, short and long. All that would allow us to have much more seaworthy boats.

I don't know how they can sail the AC75 around the Isle of Wight, they lack batteries, they probably lack man powered energy, their hulls are so wide that hitting a wave could damage them. As Verdier was saying, he was willing to have a much narower, trimaran type, hull at the beginning, he was imposed these wide hulls.

 

[Blitzkrieg9]

I think we need to get rid of large energy stores for all classes of sailing.  This includes canters that do offshore races with a diesel generator running the whole time.

Make them use hydro generators to charge batteries (or oil bombs) that can only handle a few manoeuvres .  This will not only stop them being power boats, but bring in a new aspect of variability.  Imagine a tacking duel where both boats are near the bottom of their energy store, so after each tack they have a choice between boat speed or charging their store ready for the next manoeuvre.    Boats that can sail fast without constant foil adjustments will have a benefit as they will have less drag from less charging.

Load on the grinders is more difficult, as you don't want them stroking out.

So, in the AC, this is already the case!!!  For AC35 the maximum hydraulic oil storage tank was 6 liters.   

AC36 was very similar. There is no significant storage.   Mozzy did the interview with the Ineos grinder and LSD did the interview with the AM trimmer.   They both said the same thing. 95% of the time the power is being generated in real-time.  The storage tanks are really just to "even the flow" so you don't have jumps and jerks. 

In the AM trimmer interview he talks about how after a tack, he could only trim "so much" as he had to wait for the pressure to build.  So you move the big shit that makes the most difference, then you do the finer trimming as the pressure builds back up. 

 

[marlowe]

If the alternative is loosing the Kiwi design team to billionaire overseas teams because I simply can't scrape the dosh together, then, well, I wouldn't love it, but I am open to the idea of guaranteeing TNZ a serious crack at the whip.

Fair enough. It seems the definition of having to prostitute onself when there is no other means of support. I'm surprised there are some prepared to suck it up.

 

[The Advocate]

The storage tanks are really just to "even the flow" so you don't have jumps and jerks. 

Accumulator tank.

 

[weta27]

That's what happens when you arrive at a party late, Weta.

Everyone else is pissed and out of their heads and you just can't get in the mood. ;-)

All the available girls have given up and gone home, the beer's run out, somebody's repeatedly chucking up on the dancefloor and the DJ is playing the same f***ing song over and over again ....