The apathy is astounding.

[Mrleft8]

Back in 2002 the country (as a whole, but not all of us) didn't care that it was Egyptians, Saudis, and a Yemeni who committed the 9/11 attacks. We wanted the whole fucking place(Middle east) melted down to a shiny glass slab. Let's start with Afghanistan, and move on to Iraq, and keep Iran in our sights while we also slaughter Syrians, and a few other towel head countries.

Those critters were brown, fucked camels, and spoke jibberish.

But..... Now we watch as a country that looks like the people that we want to emigrate here are slaughtered by another country that for 70 years we have despised..... Until Dubya looked into Putin's eyes and saw a good man, and Trump thought he was Very, very smart.....

 So we, as a country are ambivalent.... We shouldn't send troops in. We should spend our money here and fix our broken system..... Suddenly....

 WHY is this?

Because we can't tell the good guys from the bad guys by looking at them?

 I can tell you right now, that no matter what the Govt. of Ukraine was made up of, the innocent people being tortured, murdered, raped, and terrorized are not the bad guys.

WE as a country need to stop prevaricating, and demand that our elected representatives authorize military (BOOTS ON THE GROUND) assistance to Ukraine.

It's the only way that Russia MIGHT be able to be stopped before we get in to WW3.

 

[Marty Gingras]

It's the only way that Russia MIGHT be able to be stopped before we get in to WW3.

I trust and certainly hope that's not the case. 

I'm all for arming the Ukrainians to the teeth and assassination.

 

[Sea warrior]

Back in 2002 the country (as a whole, but not all of us) didn't care that it was Egyptians, Saudis, and a Yemeni who committed the 9/11 attacks. We wanted the whole fucking place(Middle east) melted down to a shiny glass slab. Let's start with Afghanistan, and move on to Iraq, and keep Iran in our sights while we also slaughter Syrians, and a few other towel head countries.

Those critters were brown, fucked camels, and spoke jibberish.

But..... Now we watch as a country that looks like the people that we want to emigrate here are slaughtered by another country that for 70 years we have despised..... Until Dubya looked into Putin's eyes and saw a good man, and Trump thought he was Very, very smart.....

 So we, as a country are ambivalent.... We shouldn't send troops in. We should spend our money here and fix our broken system..... Suddenly....

 WHY is this?

Because we can't tell the good guys from the bad guys by looking at them?

 I can tell you right now, that no matter what the Govt. of Ukraine was made up of, the innocent people being tortured, murdered, raped, and terrorized are not the bad guys.

WE as a country need to stop prevaricating, and demand that our elected representatives authorize military (BOOTS ON THE GROUND) assistance to Ukraine.

It's the only way that Russia MIGHT be able to be stopped before we get in to WW3.

The US isn’t “ambivalent” you nincompoop, the US is faced with an adversary that is capable of hitting back.

Some could suggest that that is cowardice but not me, nosireebob 

lol

 

[Ncik]

Is what the west is doing now considered appeasement?

 

[d'ranger]

What do you suggest we do? I mean in addition to the extensive training these past 8 years and supplying weapons (well except for that slight delay a while back)?  Someone that I respect (or did) on FB called Biden a pussy and is responsible for the war and wants us to send in the Migs and heavy artillery.

I have sent $$ to help through Ed and am making arrangements to send to someone who is in Ukraine embedded with journalists. I also trust Biden for his years of experience both personally and to surround himself with the best people available.

Send in troops? What could go wrong since Putin is looking for an excuse to go nuclear - the guy is old, he has cancer this is his last hurrah - do you really think he will just go holey shit I have to go home now?  I don't know where you think the apathy is but it's not here and while Iraq was a YUGE mistake it has zero bearing on Ukraine. 

And who let the worm back in?

 

[Cal20sailor]

I have sent $$ to help through Ed

Ed claims I'm the only one he knows from this site.  False,  Ed and I met, last August and spent 5 hours together.  Hardly a relationship.  What I drove off that day was a guy who is knowing, intelligent, and I never suspected he was fighting illness.  Ed's a gift and I will visit again and urge others to do the same.

 

[AJ Oliver]

Back in 2002 the country (as a whole, but not all of us) didn't care that it was Egyptians, Saudis, and a Yemeni who committed the 9/11 attacks. We wanted the whole fucking place(Middle east) melted down to a shiny glass slab. Let's start with Afghanistan, and move on to Iraq, and keep Iran in our sights while we also slaughter Syrians, and a few other towel head countries.

No, the country did not think that, or want that.  

Please try to back up that ludicrous assertion . . . 

 

[Remodel]

WE as a country need to stop prevaricating, and demand that our elected representatives authorize military (BOOTS ON THE GROUND) assistance to Ukraine.

I hate to break it to you, but putting boots on the ground is the very definition of WWIII. I would like us to do more, but short of WWIII, I don't personally know what the answer is. What do you propose?

 

[Ed Lada]

Ed claims I'm the only one he knows from this site.  False,  Ed and I met, last August and spent 5 hours together.  Hardly a relationship.  What I drove off that day was a guy who is knowing, intelligent, and I never suspected he was fighting illness.  Ed's a gift and I will visit again and urge others to do the same.

Thanks man.  

 

[Mrleft8]

I don't know what the answer is. That's not my area of expertise. But doing nothing while innocent civilians are being massacred just doesn't seem right.

 

[Gouvernail]

I am not sufficiently educated about the various factors to offer solutions. 
 

I do believe the western media is doing a poor job explaining why the Russians feel compelled to take over Ukraine. 

 

[Ed Lada]

I am not sufficiently educated about the various factors to offer solutions. 
 

I do believe the western media Vladimir Putin is doing a poor job explaining why the Russians feel compelled to take over Ukraine. 

IFTFY

 

[d'ranger]

I don't know what the answer is. That's not my area of expertise. But doing nothing while innocent civilians are being massacred just doesn't seem right.

Then do something.  You're Welcome.

 

[Ed Lada]

I used to be apathetic but I can't even care about that anymore.

 

[Rain Man]

I hate to break it to you, but putting boots on the ground is the very definition of WWIII. I would like us to do more, but short of WWIII, I don't personally know what the answer is. What do you propose?

We are already in WWIII.  The only decision left to make is which countries we are going to sacrifice through appeasement before the real shooting war starts.  ATM we are appeasing Putin in the hope that Ukraine will win.  

While Ukraine has exceeded all expectations in terms of defense, they have been unable to go on the offense against overwhelming Russian numbers.  They could do it if they had unlimited advanced weapons and training, or air superiority, but they don't have either.  The only reason they got the Russians to retreat from the area north of Kyiv is they stopped the Russian advance, and then started slowly picking off their troops and equipment one by one.  The Russians, with poor logistics, unable to reinforce and protect their supply lines, knew they were sitting ducks and retreated.

Until we see evidence that the Ukrainians can advance against the Russians to recapture large areas, it looks like Russia will be keeping all the territory they have gained so far.

That can not stand.  It just can't.  Ukraine has to win this war, or Putin will be emboldened and Moldova will be next.  The Baltic states after that.  

 

[Rain Man]

More on the topic of this thread, I can not believe that the vast majority of people in North America have not yet woken up to the fact that we are now in a proxy war against Russia which will inevitably expand to direct conflict, that we are eventually going to be sending our troops to fight, and that this is going to cost each one of us a lot of money and some of us our lives.  Possibly a lot of us our lives, if Putin realizes he is losing and pushes the big red button.

 

[Blue Crab]

Currently

 

[Ed Lada]

We are already in WWIII.  The only decision left to make is which countries we are going to sacrifice through appeasement before the real shooting war starts.  ATM we are appeasing Putin in the hope that Ukraine will win.  

While Ukraine has exceeded all expectations in terms of defense, they have been unable to go on the offense against overwhelming Russian numbers.  They could do it if they had unlimited advanced weapons and training, or air superiority, but they don't have either.  The only reason they got the Russians to retreat from the area north of Kyiv is they stopped the Russian advance, and then started slowly picking off their troops and equipment one by one.  The Russians, with poor logistics, unable to reinforce and protect their supply lines, knew they were sitting ducks and retreated.

Until we see evidence that the Ukrainians can advance against the Russians to recapture large areas, it looks like Russia will be keeping all the territory they have gained so far.

That can not stand.  It just can't.  Ukraine has to win this war, or Putin will be emboldened and Moldova will be next.  The Baltic states after that.  

In my opinion you are wrong.

Yes the Ukrainians are putting up a valiant and strong defense, but Russian ineptitude on a massive scale is helping that effort a greatly.  Poor logistics are only one of the many weaknesses of the Russian military.  They suck on almost every level.  The Russian defense budget in 2020 was 61.7 billion dollars.  In todays environment, that isn't even remotely close to adequate to equip, train, and maintain an effective modern military.  As is Eva Dent.

Moldova is a question mark, they certainly are a small, poor country and I doubt they could do much to the Russians.  But it also remains to be seen if Putin has the stomach for more military action of any kind after the debacle revealing how weak the Russian military really is.  And for that matter, there was plenty of evidence as to the weakness of the Russian military prior to the current conflict, it just that most people were lacked enough knowledge to see it and believed the propaganda from both the US and Russia as to how scary the Soviet/Russian military was.

As far as the Baltic states go, they belong to NATO.  Putin is not stupid, he is going to go up against NATO when the current conflict in Ukraine has not only NATO countries, but the majority of the world in remarkable solidarity against him.

It's really difficult to label the current conflict WWIII when the sole aggressor is a corrupt and weak country that gets respect only because of it's nuclear arsenal.  Don't forget both prior world wars involved powerful coalitions on both sides.  People seem to forget that The Soviet Union and Germany were allies until 1941.  There was also the Japanese presence in the Pacific, which made WWII truly a global war, not just a European conflict.

I really wish these comparisons and speculation would stop.  There are very few parallels between WWII and the current situation except that Russia is involved, and it's taking place in Europe.  And as far as the blather about the Baltic states, Poland, or any other NATO country being invaded by Russia, is just sheer insanity.

 

[Rain Man]

In my opinion you are wrong.

Yes the Ukrainians are putting up a valiant and strong defense, but Russian ineptitude on a massive scale is helping that effort a greatly.  Poor logistics are only one of the many weaknesses of the Russian military.  They suck on almost every level.  The Russian defense budget in 2020 was 61.7 billion dollars.  In todays environment, that isn't even remotely close to adequate to equip, train, and maintain an effective modern military.  As is Eva Dent.

Moldova is a question mark, they certainly are a small, poor country and I doubt they could do much to the Russians.  But it also remains to be seen if Putin has the stomach for more military action of any kind after the debacle revealing how weak the Russian military really is.  And for that matter, there was plenty of evidence as to the weakness of the Russian military prior to the current conflict, it just that most people were lacked enough knowledge to see it and believed the propaganda from both the US and Russia as to how scary the Soviet/Russian military was.

As far as the Baltic states go, they belong to NATO.  Putin is not stupid, he is going to go up against NATO when the current conflict in Ukraine has not only NATO countries, but the majority of the world in remarkable solidarity against him.

It's really difficult to label the current conflict WWIII when the sole aggressor is a corrupt and weak country that gets respect only because of it's nuclear arsenal.  Don't forget both prior world wars involved powerful coalitions on both sides.  People seem to forget that The Soviet Union and Germany were allies until 1941.  There was also the Japanese presence in the Pacific, which made WWII truly a global war, not just a European conflict.

I really wish these comparisons and speculation would stop.  There are very few parallels between WWII and the current situation except that Russia is involved, and it's taking place in Europe.  And as far as the blather about the Baltic states, Poland, or any other NATO country being invaded by Russia, is just sheer insanity.

Thanks, I needed that.  However, what would the consequences be of a Russian push to the West of Kherson to take Odessa?  That will be their next objective after consolidating in Eastern Ukraine.   Then link up with Transnistria and take Moldova, because, why not, it isn't NATO?

Ukraine has to break the land bridge, take out the Kerch and destroy the ports in Sevastopol and Berdyansk to stop that happening.