The Australian Sailing and RQYS Kabuki Theatre Thread

Well, our last day didn't turn out so good, though through no fault of our own doing.  Muppets did ok.

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Livia

Super Anarchist
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Southern Ocean
Just when you thought it was safe to go near the water at the Lota fishing and Fighting Club, security will be out in force next Wednesday evening.

There is a meeting (information session) to discuss certain aspects of the financial affairs of the place.

But wait, members only get the Financial Report which is the purpose of the meeting after the meeting is concluded.

Even the Trumpster had to eventually disclose his tax returns.

 
Might be worth a look at the club's constitution.

Most have a clause somewhere allowing any member to request to view the minutes & financials,  & many will have a time limit & or process for the committee to produce the required documents for at least viewing.

If it ain't there maybe a constitutional change may be in the best interests of members & there is usually a way specified that these can be brought or forced to a vote.  Given what has been reported it should not be too hard to round up enough interested members to have a real chance of making the changes.

Remember the constitution is simply a set of rules AGREED TO BY THE MEMBERS which govern the club,  it is not set in stone and can be amended by the membership if enough agree that it is not serving them well.

 

Livia

Super Anarchist
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At last count the :club” consists of 26 entities but “so called members” are members of a only one.

This concerns mostly the other 25

You may well ask why does a simple business need 25 entities

 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
At last count the :club” consists of 26 entities but “so called members” are members of a only one.

This concerns mostly the other 25

You may well ask why does a simple business need 25 entities
Is it a simple business?  It has a marina, a bar/restraunt, a sailing school, a hotel now right?   Etc...   lots of businesses break themselves into lots of different entities to protect the assets and liabilities of one from the other.  Until recently, i know of at least one other club who ran all their functions under seperate entities so as to keep revenue and salaries of each entity under relevant tax and employment thresholds.  I think the Tax dept clamped down on that.

putting the members in a seperate entity is smart business sense in that a member that sues the club probably doesn't have anything to sue.  Also, they possibly have no right over how the other entities are run unless the other entities say so in their constitution.

 

Boink

Super Anarchist
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Is it a simple business?  It has a marina, a bar/restraunt, a sailing school, a hotel now right?   Etc...   lots of businesses break themselves into lots of different entities to protect the assets and liabilities of one from the other.  Until recently, i know of at least one other club who ran all their functions under seperate entities so as to keep revenue and salaries of each entity under relevant tax and employment thresholds.  I think the Tax dept clamped down on that.

putting the members in a seperate entity is smart business sense in that a member that sues the club probably doesn't have anything to sue.  Also, they possibly have no right over how the other entities are run unless the other entities say so in their constitution.
Whilst i don't disagree that this remains smart from a business and ultimately a risk management perspective, what we are really witnessing in this shit show (and so many other like minded organisations - Hello Australian Sailing! - yes AS, you who advises clubs on how to best to kill our sport) is the divergence away from "Member owned" and "Run for the Benefit of the Members" ethos directly towards pure corporate greed, yet wanting to be able to "call" on members when the management stuffs up. 

This headlong rush towards making sailing and yacht clubs "resort" styled money making schemes is so far removed from the initial concepts of why they were created in the first place. 

RQYC - their committees and management team - have clearly been asleep at the wheel from many aspects - marina berthing, security, membership behaviour, race mangement, protest management, food & beverage - heck; almost every conceivable area is broken or so sub standard as to require a wholesale review.

Any place or organisation that disconnects accountability of its actions or staff or policies from the membership, whilst clearly treating that same membership with both disdain and distance - yet keeping the option open that it can call upon that same membership to bail them out financially due to their ineptitude - is both Broken and ultimately on Borrowed Time. 

Time for a reboot. Seen it at other clubs. Its Awkward. Messy and fraught with pitfalls. But you need a cohort of Members or Trustee like people who are genuinely above reproach or any sense of self interest, let alone corruption; to grab this problem by the testicles and wrangle it back into control.

This is where members who have had the benefit of this club and its facilities need to truly give back. The membership will know exactly who the correct people are. Those currently in roles of committee or management need to exit, wholesale. And, for those members who write such utter crap as in the example above, then they and their mates need to take a long walk off a short pier and not be seen or heard from again.

 

jack_sparrow

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...putting the members in a seperate entity is smart business sense in that a member that sues the club probably doesn't have anything to sue.  

Whilst i don't disagree that this remains smart from a business and ultimately a risk management perspective...

You mean to keep them safe from members!

At last count the :club” consists of 26 entities but “so called members” are members of a only one.

This concerns mostly the other 25

You may well ask why does a simple business need 25 entities
"At last count the club” consists of 26 entities You may well ask why does a simple business need 25 entities"

"..members in a seperate entity is smart business sense in that a member that sues the club probably doesn't have anything to sue."

______________

A Club cannot sue or be sued. The fundamental feature of it being an 'Unincorporated Association'.

The 25 'other' Club entities for instance 'could' be for valid reasons associated with outside third parties. 

However one reason is, it allows the Club to fragment and extinguish/diminish accountability and liability to any Club members contributing to any one of those 25 other Club entities, particularly contributions of a financial nature.

For example an entity called 'Peter' can shift assets incl cash to 'Paul' (any Club entity incl the Club), or visa versa liabilities, with just the stroke of a pen.

There is absolutely fuck all a member can do; (outside a membership revolt) except sit back and take it squarely up the arse.

I would suggest any member be very circumspect of anything a professional advisor says, if they are an advisor to any Club who conducts this sort of 'Peter & Paul' practise.

 
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LB 15

Cunt
Sad news with the passing of Jed C yesterday. Jed was one of those volunteers that only come along once in a clubs lifetime. Apparently he suffered a heart attack on the ramp doing what he had been doing for over 40 years. Giving his time selflessly to the help the clubs junior sailors. RIP old mate, RQ is a lesser place with your passing.

 

Spoonie

Anarchist
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91
Sydney
A Club cannot sue or be sued.
If RQYS is not incorporated, I would be very surprised.

A quick search shows:

Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron Limited (public company)
R.Q.Y.S Marina Limited
RQYS Motel PTY Limited
ROYAL QUEENSLAND YACHT SQUADRON JOHN HARRISON OLYMPIC SUPPORT FOUNDATION PTY LTD
 

Each of those has a discretionary trading trust associated with it for the associated assets.  So there's 8 entities.  RQYS has a bunch of trading names including for a historical wooden boat show or something.  They're not technically entities but... yeah.  I'm guessing the members sit under the first one.
 

Most of it was set up in the early 2000's.  The motel and marina trust was set up in 2007 and 2008 respectively.  The RQYS assets trust set up in 2019.  

Anyway, most clubs these days incorporate.  So yes they can sue or be sued.

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
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A Club cannot sue or be sued. The fundamental feature of it being an 'Unincorporated Association'. 
If RQYS is not incorporated, I would be very surprised.
My post was not attached to RQYS but simply Unincorporated Associations.

However a quick search shows as follows.

Jensen v RQYS Marina Ltd & Ors [2015] QCA 153 Supreme Court of Queensland states that RQYS Marina Limited is first respondent and Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron Limited is the second respondent plus others.

The appellants are members and owners/sub lessees of marina berths, held/constructed prior to 1991.

That judgement says "Before 1991 the Royal Queensland Yachting Squadron was an unincorporated association" and "On 14 October 1991 the Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron Ltd (“the Squadron”) was incorporated as a company limited by guarantee, and effectively took over the activities, operations and affairs of the Squadron."

In Clause 2 and 3 of the Clubs Constitution (which is unchanged since 1991) references its prior unincorprated status for persons who were members of the unincorporated association at the time of incorporation and the transfer of membership and funds.

The above doesn't change my post about unincorporated associations and it using incorporated entities, except naturally in RQYS case being incorporated it can now be sued by its members AND visa versa.

The latter I'm sure very, very few members today would be aware of, (unless they step out of line) that their club can sue them.

Any club or members funds used to sue or take action or defend against members you would hope ars disclosed in published accounts of incorporated clubs.

For example an entity called 'Peter' can shift assets incl cash to 'Paul' (any Club entity incl the Club), or visa versa liabilities, with just the stroke of a pen.

There is absolutely fuck all a member can do; (outside a membership revolt) except sit back and take it squarely up the arse.

I would suggest any member be very circumspect of anything a professional advisor says, if they are an advisor to any Club who conducts this sort of 'Peter & Paul' practise.

 
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LB 15

Cunt
If RQYS is not incorporated, I would be very surprised.

A quick search shows:

Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron Limited (public company)
R.Q.Y.S Marina Limited
RQYS Motel PTY Limited
ROYAL QUEENSLAND YACHT SQUADRON JOHN HARRISON OLYMPIC SUPPORT FOUNDATION PTY LTD
 

Each of those has a discretionary trading trust associated with it for the associated assets.  So there's 8 entities.  RQYS has a bunch of trading names including for a historical wooden boat show or something.  They're not technically entities but... yeah.  I'm guessing the members sit under the first one.
 

Most of it was set up in the early 2000's.  The motel and marina trust was set up in 2007 and 2008 respectively.  The RQYS assets trust set up in 2019.  

Anyway, most clubs these days incorporate.  So yes they can sue or be sued.
You are right in everything you say. I was a director when they were sued by the group of berth holders (all of who were, and remain, close friends. I have just got of the phone to one of them about tonight’s meeting.)

I will bet Jack didn’t like being told he was wrong (again). In fact I will bet his last post was him ’Jacksplaing’  how he was in fact right. Even though he was speaking utter bullshit as usual. 

 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
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Brisvegas
I will bet Jack didn’t like being told he was wrong (again). In fact I will bet his last post was him ’Jacksplaing’  how he was in fact right. Even though he was speaking utter bullshit as usual. 
I have Jack blocked as treatment for my RSI, Repetitive Scrolling Injury.

im sure I’m not missing anything.

 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,013
1,082
Southern Ocean
Bit hard for anyone to take you seriously when, the Special Purpose Report which is why the meeting is called is only made available to members after the meeting is over!

I shit you not.

And then the person who authored the Report starts by saying that he has not tested or reviewed any of the allocations in the Accounts made by the General Manager.

Even Mrs O would not wipe herself with that paper.

 




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