The Boat Review thread

[Sailingkid]

I just spent 6 weeks driving and sailing in different places around Australia, and i had a fair bit of time to think about different boats. Then i thought that with all the people on SA that have sailed interesting boats, we would probably be able to put together and acurate picture of all sorts of different boats, that a lot of people might not get to sail.(e.g there aren't any RS boats in my state) Bassically whatever boat you sail feel free to review it. It could be a good wy to premote your class. I'll start it off.

About 3 weeks ago i was in perth for the aus youth nationals, and these opti people has some demo RS fevas XL's. My brother haden't been sailing for at least 3 months, and when he had the chance to go on one of these, he was excited so he wanted me to go with him. I thought they must be a decent boat because they are so popular in England(or so i gather from englsh sailing magazines) We were able to sail them in a little housing canal/marina enviroment, which isn't the best for sailing, but the seabreeze was about 23 knots straight over the top of the marina, so the wind wasen't too bad. Anyway we got the boat which was already in the water, and put the centreboard in, which seemed to have a something really heavy in the tip. We took off with me steering, which was fairly balanced. We sailed around for a bit, but my brother struggeled to get the kite up because it was jammed, so we never got the kite up, Then in the shifty breeze behind some trawlers we heeled over to windward and my brother fell out. I found the feva easy to turn around singlehanded, and i picked up my brother no problem. When he got back in we tacked and kept going, then my brother went to reach the stay and it wasen't there. A postitive of the feva was that the mast didn't fall down when there was no sidestay on the windward side. Once we went in me and another guy went out on it, this time with me crewing. Once we got out and turned around i put the kite up. This is that part that i didn't like about this feva, although maybe it was set up poorly. The kite system just seemed like a bad copy of a 29er/49er kite system, becuase it didnt have the block and shock cord to keep the system tight. Therefore the halyard ended up all tangeled with the retrival line. Lucky the kite was small so it was only about two pulls to get it up. The boat did seem to get going a little bit but when its nearing planing speed the v shaped bow gives the feeling that you are "pushing" the water.

I thought the positives of the RS feva Xl were that it has a good sized main, so you feel like there is some power in the boat, it has an assymetirc kite

I has an assymetirc kite.

It has a nice looking main.

The mast didn't come down when they stay came out.

RS sponsers dinghy anarchy, which is a positive.

The parts i didn't like were that the stay came out, which isn't exatly reassuring.

I didnt like the 420 style jib sheeting, which gives the crew to much to do in a gybe.

I also didnt like the cockpit floow, which was soft.

The kite system has potential to be effecitve, but im not sure if it would be legal under class rules.

Keep in mind this is just my personal opinion, someone else might feel differently.

 

[JvParidon]

I think this is a great idea, and I hope that more people will contribute to this thread!

(When I've got the time I'll add some reviews myself)

 

[JRG4EVER]

i haven't really sailed anything better than a 420, but ive raced optis, fjs, and been in a blue j once or twice. Comparatively, cause its easy, i'd take the 420 over an fj anyday, considering they are farely similar (i have a 420 that has an fj rudder. it works. alright) but i think i just like the stability the 420 provides, and unlike sailingkid i'm a fan of the 420 jib sheeting method, as opposed to the fj. (keep in mind i haven't been on much else). Also, i like the spin and trap capabilities that a 420 provides, which the fj lacks, but at the same time, in collegiate racing and a lot of 420 racing we can't use the spin or trap. i'd love to see icsa and such make the courses larger and allow spins and traps. i think it would be a whole new element.

i looked up those fevas cause i'm not familier with them, and they look pretty sweet. hopefully i'll get a chance to see em close up further down the line

 

[skslr]

Promote my class? Well, I guess the RS800 could need some help outside Europe

All the usual stuff about this twin-wire high performance dinghy (dimensions, materials...) is written here:

http://www.rssailing.com/fleetsnew.asp?fle...ls%20and%20Spec

We sailed an International 14 Penultimate before and are now sailing yardstick races with other "skiffs" (That is what they call it here, sorry).

If you compare the RS800 to int14 and 49er it is a relatively wide and long hull (=stable platform) compared to a smaller rigg. A little bit of buoyancy in the cockpit side walls give an extra moment to correct faults when the racks touch the water, so it is less likely to capsize than the other two. Thanks to the "small" carbon rigg a 60 kg person can right it and scoop up the helm in most situations, 120 kg all up crew weight are sufficient to hold it down while sailing.

The standard setup is centre mainsheet bridle and single tiller extension, but it can be changed to twin tiller extensions and aft mainsheet. Latter reduces sheet load and makes it easier for the helm to move to the shrouds in light airs (when crew is front of mast).

However it is not allowed to take the main sheet directly from the boom or hand it over to the crew upwind. This also matches the concept of a boat for average sailors that cannot practice together daily, if it is not too windy you can even sail with novices.

With some practice 2 average sailors are able to sail the RS800 in Force 6 and easily overtake 49er crews with a similar skill level. The expert 49er crews will still leave even the best RS800's clearly behind, though.

What we like about the RS800:

• Lightweight => Easy to handle ashore
  
• Double floor cockpit (selfdraining) and open transom => easy to get on board
  
• Daggerboard close to the water when capsized and lightweight rigg => easy to right
  
• Managable sheet loads
  
• Selftacking jib => one thing less to worry while gybing
  
• Kite hoists in front of forstay => no need about to think about on which tack you are
  
• Even at our skill level we can sail it in Force 6 => We do not have to stay ashore when the experts have fun with their 49ers
  
• We can take out friends (sometimes sailing three up) in Force 3-4
  
• Goes very nicely through ugly shop without needing a T-foil and all the hassle that comes with them.
  
• Very good support by RS
  
• You cannot change hull form or move fittings like in development classes, but you can choose manufacturers for spare parts like blocks and shackles as you like => you do not need to buy overpriced spare parts just with the right name stamped into it
  

What we don't like:

Well, in really light airs some more rocker and more sail area, especially a bigger kite, would be nice but obviously you cannot have everything!

All in all I guess it is the easiest option on the European market to get into the real high performance twin wire area, but unfortunately I cannot compare it e.g. to the Vanguard Vector.

 

[IC AUS]

Well, I am a mad keen IC sailor - and the boats rock, however while building my new one I have had a chance to ride in a lot of other beasts this season. Being on the shorter side of tall, and 64kg I don't get invited on the wire much but it did allow me to take out one of those new BIC Opens the other week:

It was blowing about 20-25 knots with some largish seas for Adelaide when three of us headed out for the startline. The boat was very easy to launch, with the handles at the rear to help lift, and the boat stayed relatively stable for putting the centreboard in. The kick up rudder was simple to use- pull one line and it goes down and the other and it comes up.

Initially I thought "what a boring boat", but I was comparing it to an IC which is incredibly unfair to the Bic, so I started to look at the good things about this small plastic boat:

It's hiking position is very comfortable (not that I had to do much hiking, even in the gusts), and the boat easily powered and depowered with less than an arms movement of the mainsheet. As the lightest of the three of us racing I was surprised that I got beaten up the first work, and I had to work my arse off downwind (healing right over to windward and working every wave) to get back in front. As we headed upwind again my lead diminished, so I looked at that the other guy was doing ' sitting right on the transom' (I had been sitting as far forwards as possible), I moved to the back of the boat - the helm got lighter, and I took off (relatively speaking). The others had pulled out by the time I crossed the finish line, so I did some mucking around on the way in and found out a few things:

You cannot go forwards to far, the boat slows dramatically - infact if you have weather helm then you are too far forward. You can oversheet the main, so keep an eye on that. It tacks very easily, but in a breeze you neeed to be quite forceful in a gybe to get the boom across. Capsize recovery is dead simple, with the boat popping up from any angle to the breeze.

I did enjoy my race in the Bic, but I have declined taking it out again as once was enough.

What I liked about the Bic:

• Simple and quick to rig
  
• No bailing required
  
• comfortable platform to sail on
  
• Very easy to handle
  
• Kids seem happy to just jump in and have a go (judging by their popularity each week)
  

What I didn't like:

To be honest, as a kids dinghy and training boat I couldn't find many faults in it. As much as I like junior boats like the Mudlark and the Sabot - this boat does the job better. I guess the only fault is the 3k price tag, and that these boats may one day kill off another established junior class (but that is evolution isn't it?). Be interesting to see how these boats hold up after a couple of years of use and abuse.

I'll give a review of my new 'flatpack' IC when it hits the water

 

[U20guy2]

Chartered a Bendy 323 brandnew in 06 first charter.

Sailed poorly mainly due to the very short rudder. Was better at motoring to said destination. Interior was nice aft cabin was a bit odd width vs length etc. Vberth was too small for anyone but kids. Ran into a german couple very tall on the same boat. They had a really hard time with the bunk options being too short both aft and vberth.

U20 - sails like a dinghy but isn't. Always seems to go over well with non sailors due to the cockpit layout and dry ride.

I14 - cool boat fun to helm - requires a driver that is fast and doesn't need to think about helm input (just does it) otherwise your swimming.

Synergy 1000 - fantastic boat drives like a big heavy U20 - built like a brick - sh*t house. Down side very tight interior space and only 4footers can stand below.

Olson 34 - drove 1/4 the way to Hawaii on it. Updated schumacher rudder much like the new Express 37 rudders. Great boat - will get up and surf - functional interior very good value for the money (if you can find one).

Ultimate 24 is a beefy U20 with ocean capability. Fast - fun - just as easy to crew as the U20. Only major difference between the U20 and U24 from the helm is that you can stall the U24 foils much easier than the U20.

Antrim 27 is a whole other ball game - you need crew on the rail to make it go - and going fast is what it does best! It is also a wetter ride than the U24 or U20 given it doesn't have the externally rolled hull to deck joint to deflect water.

Probably one of the best values for the money in dingy's Coronado 15 there are dozens of them out there- very large main and overlapping jib - + trapeze rigged is standard. Great boat for the few bucks it costs you.

C&C 99 - drives great even with some steam on 13+ knots - good feel/feedback on the wheel. Fun boat- cockpit layout takes some getting use too.

 

[JRG4EVER]

Well, I am a mad keen IC sailor - and the boats rock, however while building my new one I have had a chance to ride in a lot of other beasts this season. Being on the shorter side of tall, and 64kg I don't get invited on the wire much but it did allow me to take out one of those new BIC Opens the other week:It was blowing about 20-25 knots with some largish seas for Adelaide when three of us headed out for the startline. The boat was very easy to launch, with the handles at the rear to help lift, and the boat stayed relatively stable for putting the centreboard in. The kick up rudder was simple to use- pull one line and it goes down and the other and it comes up.

Initially I thought "what a boring boat", but I was comparing it to an IC which is incredibly unfair to the Bic, so I started to look at the good things about this small plastic boat:

It's hiking position is very comfortable (not that I had to do much hiking, even in the gusts), and the boat easily powered and depowered with less than an arms movement of the mainsheet. As the lightest of the three of us racing I was surprised that I got beaten up the first work, and I had to work my arse off downwind (healing right over to windward and working every wave) to get back in front. As we headed upwind again my lead diminished, so I looked at that the other guy was doing ' sitting right on the transom' (I had been sitting as far forwards as possible), I moved to the back of the boat - the helm got lighter, and I took off (relatively speaking). The others had pulled out by the time I crossed the finish line, so I did some mucking around on the way in and found out a few things:

You cannot go forwards to far, the boat slows dramatically - infact if you have weather helm then you are too far forward. You can oversheet the main, so keep an eye on that. It tacks very easily, but in a breeze you neeed to be quite forceful in a gybe to get the boom across. Capsize recovery is dead simple, with the boat popping up from any angle to the breeze.

I did enjoy my race in the Bic, but I have declined taking it out again as once was enough.

to be honest, i laughed when i first saw the bic, but i guess i gotta at least try it out. seems a lot more simple then an opti, gives a little more power, and is a little more responsive. But i couldn't see the age range going past puberty. but i guess it was built for a beginner boat so thats what its for.

i could also see how kids who learned on something like an open bic moving up to different boats than opti kids could. thats probably a good thing though

 

[Sailingkid]

Nice to see my thread taking off, but im suprised none of them FD guys have shown up yet, because they seem to love there boats alot! JRG4EVER i was comparing the feva/420 jib sheeting system to the 29ers, after reading everyone elses reviews i probably should have been more specific.

 

[will746]

i sail a 29er but learnt in sabots but have sailed 420s hobies RS's and a few more aswell. Basically i'm not a huge fan of symmetrical chutes i find them hard to use and they take ages to put up even for the top guys. 29ers are far faster in all conditions than the 420, and are relatively easy to sail in terms of the self tacking jib and the assymetrical kite with retriever line than the 420, but they are very unstable and hard to get really good as with any boat. The thing i like about them is that instead of the races being won by tactical geniuses they are won by good boat handling and team work between skipper and crew and if ur good at tactics aswell then ur gonna do well!

 

[Sailingkid]

i sail a 29er but learnt in sabots but have sailed 420s hobies RS's and a few more aswell. Basically i'm not a huge fan of symmetrical chutes i find them hard to use and they take ages to put up even for the top guys. 29ers are far faster in all conditions than the 420, and are relatively easy to sail in terms of the self tacking jib and the assymetrical kite with retriever line than the 420, but they are very unstable and hard to get really good as with any boat. The thing i like about them is that instead of the races being won by tactical geniuses they are won by good boat handling and team work between skipper and crew and if ur good at tactics aswell then ur gonna do well!

I sail a 29er to and i also used to sail 420s, and i agree on everything you've just said. The thing i like about them though is that they are so much faster then the majority of boats around, and that you can keep up with $300 000 keelboats.

 

[BWR]

i sail a 29er but learnt in sabots but have sailed 420s hobies RS's and a few more aswell. Basically i'm not a huge fan of symmetrical chutes i find them hard to use and they take ages to put up even for the top guys. 29ers are far faster in all conditions than the 420, and are relatively easy to sail in terms of the self tacking jib and the assymetrical kite with retriever line than the 420, but they are very unstable and hard to get really good as with any boat. The thing i like about them is that instead of the races being won by tactical geniuses they are won by good boat handling and team work between skipper and crew and if ur good at tactics aswell then ur gonna do well!

I sail a 29er to and i also used to sail 420s, and i agree on everything you've just said. The thing i like about them though is that they are so much faster then the majority of boats around, and that you can keep up with $300 000 keelboats.

Keep up? You should be beating there asses! Keep working on the skiff stuff. Everyone says less tactics in skiffs, they just haven't gotten good enough with the boat handling to get to play the game yet! Once the boat handling is easy, then you get to play the tactics game just like ANY other dinghy, just have to be able to think that much faster and you pay bigger penalties when you're wrong or screw up! Who ever is out there saying skiffs, cats, fast boats aren't tactical, just haven't gotten good enough in these boats to have a respectful opinion.

 

[Sailingkid]

Yeah i agree with you on the tactics thing. Its suprisingly hard to keep up with a dk 46 running dead downwind in 11 knots of breeze. We were faster through the water but they had better vmg.

 

[Christian]

Chartered a Bendy 323 brandnew in 06 first charter.
Sailed poorly mainly due to the very short rudder. Was better at motoring to said destination. Interior was nice aft cabin was a bit odd width vs length etc. Vberth was too small for anyone but kids. Ran into a german couple very tall on the same boat. They had a really hard time with the bunk options being too short both aft and vberth.

U20 - sails like a dinghy but isn't. Always seems to go over well with non sailors due to the cockpit layout and dry ride.

I14 - cool boat fun to helm - requires a driver that is fast and doesn't need to think about helm input (just does it) otherwise your swimming.

Synergy 1000 - fantastic boat drives like a big heavy U20 - built like a brick - sh*t house. Down side very tight interior space and only 4footers can stand below.

Olson 34 - drove 1/4 the way to Hawaii on it. Updated schumacher rudder much like the new Express 37 rudders. Great boat - will get up and surf - functional interior very good value for the money (if you can find one).

Ultimate 24 is a beefy U20 with ocean capability. Fast - fun - just as easy to crew as the U20. Only major difference between the U20 and U24 from the helm is that you can stall the U24 foils much easier than the U20.

Antrim 27 is a whole other ball game - you need crew on the rail to make it go - and going fast is what it does best! It is also a wetter ride than the U24 or U20 given it doesn't have the externally rolled hull to deck joint to deflect water.

Probably one of the best values for the money in dingy's Coronado 15 there are dozens of them out there- very large main and overlapping jib - + trapeze rigged is standard. Great boat for the few bucks it costs you.

C&C 99 - drives great even with some steam on 13+ knots - good feel/feedback on the wheel. Fun boat- cockpit layout takes some getting use too.

Thought this was dinghy anarchy - not many dinghies in that list :lol:

 

[Sailingkid]

Surley there are more people then this sailing different boats? Someone review something . Im still really suprised none of the fd guys have shown up.

 

[psyclone]

HI all my 2 cents.

I have sailed a few dinghy classes;

1st is "125" heap of shit but serves a purpose,ie cheap,easy to build,planes in a breeze and good training class ie has traps and spinnaker !none the less an "old school" class and boxy square edges to hurt your self on!

2nd QB3 cat. Very cool boat in its day...same as QB2 but taller wing section mast, slightly fuller bows, 2 on trap!

flys a hull very early so quick in light breeze!

Down side.... easy to pitchpole in choppy stuff, no kites so lacks the prestige and excitment of the newer classes ie f18's etc but shitload cheaper!!!!!!

Dont get me started on Tasars..... either you love em or ya hate em! they have good fleet sizes and close racing!i find them boring as bat shit or paint drying!

My favourite boat ever though is the Int. 505

just a timeless racing machine!designed 60 oddyears ago and still attracts the best sailors in the world!

an easy driven yet powerfull hull and rig,easy to sail if you just want to plod along but a very demanding boat to go fast in,it has just about every control known to man kind to adjust if you want! or as simple as you like if that aint your thing, the Europeans have elaborate boats and require great skill to master the aussie boats are "usually" far simpler but as i said the more you want or can handle the more adjustments you can put on!

They are an absolute machine upwind in a breeze if sailed flat readily planning and pointing high with high aspect gybing c/board!To succeed in this boat crew work is paramount especially gybing the newish masthead kites as well as launching and retrieving thru the spin shute in the bow(the bigger kites are harder to pull through the old bow chutes)

Down wind with the larger kites now, it makes it even more tactical, sailing either square or VMG angles on the wire all the rage now in most conditions!

The down side is they are very expensive to buy (if you want to be competetive)and exy to run and maintain to a high level but fark they are hot boats!

i have sailed 29ers too but still prefer 50h's! have not tried 49ers though but will one day as they are cheap now for an average one!

 

[Steam Flyer]

Thanks for info on the other boats, esp the cats. Not that many monohull sailors or cat sailors cross over and try out "the other side."

My favourite boat ever though is the Int. 505just a timeless racing machine!designed 60 oddyears ago and still attracts the best sailors in the world!

What I like about the 505 is the way it swells the heads of those who sail it.

I've had 505 sailors yell at me to keep out of their way "We're racing!" (what do you think I'm doing, dick tracey), move my trailer, stand up at the skipper's meeting and demand anything from different starts, no start if wind is XX, or a complete relocation of the entire race several miles (but really, their place was "better").

My favorite 505 incident is when I rescued a spinnaker that had blown across a boat club parking lot, and was about to be shredded. After carefully retrieving it and carrying it over to the van of the boat it came from, the owner yanked it out of my hands without a word and turned his back. I guess it would have hurt his pride to say 'thank you.'

The boat itself... I've sailed 50s and I like them but not enough to want one. They are relatively fast and nicely un-quirky, but dated and overly complex. Back in the 1970s when I was campaigning a 470, all the 505 sailors had a terrible inferiority complex and wanted to shout at us about how their boat deserved to be in the Olympics.

Oh well. Somethings never change.

FB- Doug

 

[Steam Flyer]

Johnson 18... great boat, class failed.

Back in the early 1990s, scow builder Johnson Boat Works wanted to step up to some new type. Their competitor Melges Boat Works had recently come out with the Melges 24 and it was doing well; they wanted something a bit smaller & cheaper for a bigger market.

The boat was awesome... fast but tactical, simple & quick to rig, great handling characteristics. For example, the tiller felt very light and would develop a gradual 'pull' of weather helm as the boat heeled, all the way up until the rig was stalling and when you were about to the 'point of no return' you could still steer. The boat would plane when heeled about 10~12 degrees, it was forgiving but also if you worked at changing gears, it was responsive & faster. With the stability & ergonomics, it was a perfect boat for racing with my wife (we're athletic baby-boomers).

The Johnson 18s weak points were light air (too stable to roll-tack effectively, foils & sails were too hi-aspect to stay 'hooked up' reliably), no rub rail at the gunwhale (the topsides of all got marked & dinged up horribly no matter how careful you were), and board-boat style hull with very little stowage.

Lots of fun. Too bad the builder didn't exert a bit more time & money marketing them.

FB- Doug

 

[Squevil]

12 foot skiff - develop it as much as you like or dare to. downwind in a blow... holy mother fucker!

14 foot skiff - a bit more tame than the 12' but so much fun, can pick an oldie up cheap and have great fun! only one rig means a lot less cost, plenty of close racing from the front to back of the fleet. Spent a bit of time in the class and destroyed my liver all for one low price!

18 foot skiff - the ultimate boat to belong in dinghy anarchy... nothing like it. And as great as they are downwind, an absolute dream to steer upwind when in the groove and smokin'.

most boats along the "olympic pathway" or whatever they call it now days - over rated. plenty of other boats fit the bill. i mean, the star over the tornado? COME ON!

Tasars had a mention - shitter of boats in my honest opinion but look much sexier with the new rags and some of the best racing available on that budget. Very simply but effective setup, a great class structure and plenty of second hand boats to promote the class.

Obviously bias to the skiffs!!

 

[doghouse]

12 foot skiff - develop it as much as you like or dare to. downwind in a blow... holy mother fucker!
14 foot skiff - a bit more tame than the 12' but so much fun, can pick an oldie up cheap and have great fun! only one rig means a lot less cost, plenty of close racing from the front to back of the fleet. Spent a bit of time in the class and destroyed my liver all for one low price!

18 foot skiff - the ultimate boat to belong in dinghy anarchy... nothing like it. And as great as they are downwind, an absolute dream to steer upwind when in the groove and smokin'.

most boats along the "olympic pathway" or whatever they call it now days - over rated. plenty of other boats fit the bill. i mean, the star over the tornado? COME ON!

Tasars had a mention - shitter of boats in my honest opinion but look much sexier with the new rags and some of the best racing available on that budget. Very simply but effective setup, a great class structure and plenty of second hand boats to promote the class.

Obviously bias to the skiffs!!

You're a man after my own heart. But I will say I love my 49er also. Dead simple and fast.