Yeah na , we have currents in our “lakes “ where it outflows downstream perpetually in one direction.Outside of the us and maybe Canada, English speaking sailors tend to refer to all current as “tide” whether tidal or not. Not sure who wrote fp blurb. For those of you who think a word is inaccurately used on a site where which much of the content comes from non-us contributors, google before opening mouth and inserting foot. Here Endeth the PSA
Nope, the channel turns here, so the ship is just following the channel. No need to indicate he is coming to starboard. If he would go straight he would run aground...The commercial boat was a bit of an idiot. It should have sounded 1 short blast to let him know that he was coming to starboard instead of sounding 5 short ones which don't tell you much about what to do.
You don't sound like an asshole, but that sounds like a reckless action. If you can hear the words "asshole" you are too close. I really don't understand why people get in front of commercial ships. These ships are typically extremely limited in terms of avoiding a collision. A tug boat with a full barge has a lot of momentum. Changing direction is SLOOOOOOOOOW. On top of that they are on a job, you are out there on a sail for fun, adding stress to their job. Not cool. The alternative is to either tack/gybe alter course to go behind, or just slow down for a minute. You will be at your destination a minute later, which is really a lot better than being run over.had an issue a couple weeks back. tooling along at 3-4kts stbd tack traveling west to east in the center of the Chesapeake bay halfway between Thomas point light and bloody point. water depth 50-60' for a 1/4mile all around.
tugboat pushing a full barge toward poplar island tooling along at 10kts. we crossed his bow 200yds away. He tooted his horn once, when he passed behind us he was 50 yards astern. he did not alter course when he was astern i waved (friendly wave) he comes out of his wheel house and screams "asshole"
Yes I can understand a bit from his POV that if the wind had died and I didn't fire up the motor, i'd be fucked. and I did entertain the thought the of firing up the motor and squirting across his path, but my dead reckoning based on current speed had me crossing at what i though was a safe distance...
was i the asshole?
The "stand on" vessel does not have any right of way over the "give way" vessel and has to keep a constant course and speed, so the sailboat who was going out of the way of the commercial vessel before it initiated a turn was doing the "right thing" acoording to COLREGS and the serie of 1, 2 or 3 short blast is precisely for these kind of situations when the "big one" has to manoeruvre. IME commercial vessels signal their intention when they change course in tight areas, the 5 blasts is what they use for people who ignore COLREGS.Nope, the channel turns here, so the ship is just following the channel. No need to indicate he is coming to starboard. If he would go straight he would run aground...
5 horns tell you very well what to do: get the fuck out of here or you will be run over!
When vessels are in sight of one another, a power-driven vessel underway, when manoeuvring as authorized or
required by these Rules, shall indicate that manoeuvre by the following signals on her whistle:
- one short blast to mean “I am altering my course to starboard”;
- two short blasts to mean “I am altering my course to port”;
- three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”.
You're reading the wrong part of the col regsThe "stand on" vessel does not have any right of way over the "give way" vessel and has to keep a constant course and speed, so the sailboat who was going out of the way of the commercial vessel before it initiated a turn was doing the "right thing" acoording to COLREGS and the serie of 1, 2 or 3 short blast is precisely for these kind of situations when the "big one" has to manoeruvre. IME commercial vessels signal their intention when they change course in tight areas, the 5 blasts is what they use for people who ignore COLREGS.
I double checked in COLREGS and it is actually a requirement :
Windsor Yacht Club is running their Wednesdays again and US boats can cross over to Canadian waters. But I haven't seen any Canadian boats in US waters, because the US government is still being dicks about the border.I've sailed through there and my son drives tankers in and out of Sarnia. That's a tough passage for the big guys and slowing down is not much of an option. Best way up for a sailboat is under motor on the Canadian side, where you can actually get a little favourable current in front of the Casino. Best ride down is on the US side in lots of current. This is complicated by the current COVID rules about not crossing the border even if you don't land. We have been re-routing a bunch of our races in eastern Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence to avoid entering US waters, still forbidden for non-US boats. Does anybody know how it's working practically in the St. Clair and Detroit Rivers?
The 1844 Lake Erie disasterLunar tides are insignificant in the great lakes, seiche's and barometric variations are not.... I've seen the water level in our harbor change 2-3ft in less than 15 minutes. And the current through the harbor mouth at that point is significant.
https://project.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/seiches.htm
I don't deny that the sailboat has to stay out of the way, I am just saying that the commercial boat has to signal before changing course, it didn't...You're reading the wrong part of the col regs
Rule 9 says if you're a small boat, and a large vessel in in a narrow channel, then stay the fuck out of the way.
The large vessel is concentrating on staying in the channel and dealing with other large vessels also using the channel. They don't want to piss about with you in any way. No hooting, no stand on, no bollocks.
I don't want to go sailing with you!The "stand on" vessel does not have any right of way over the "give way" vessel and has to keep a constant course and speed, so the sailboat who was going out of the way of the commercial vessel before it initiated a turn was doing the "right thing" acoording to COLREGS and the serie of 1, 2 or 3 short blast is precisely for these kind of situations when the "big one" has to manoeruvre. IME commercial vessels signal their intention when they change course in tight areas, the 5 blasts is what they use for people who ignore COLREGS.
I double checked in COLREGS and it is actually a requirement :
I've crossed the English channel too many times to count (one of the busiest shipping channel), raced across shipping lanes, sailed in places extremely busy with commercial traffic, learnt before AIS was a thing, plotted CPA in foggy situations and never ever had a close call. IME if everybody sticks to the rules it is easy and I find the attitudes of these US commercial and leisure boats scary (there was another one of these scary videos of an instance where a motorboat was standon vessel but not keeping watch and the ferry was signaling 5 short blasts while not altering course ) and IMO the muppetry is shared.I don't want to go sailing with you!
We don't have the same version of COLREGS, what's your source ?Cristoforo said:Can you cite that regulation please?
The Cuyahoga made 5 short blasts early on
—INLAND— Sound and Light Signals RULE 34 Maneuvering and Warning Signals (a) When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules: (i) shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle: one short blast to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; and three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”. (ii) upon hearing the one or two blast signal of the other shall, if in agreement, sound the same whistle signal and take the steps necessary to effect a safe passing. If, however, from any cause, the vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver, she shall sound the danger signal specified in paragraph (d) of this Rule and each vessel shall take appropriate precautionary action until a safe passing agreement is made. (b) A vessel may supplement the whistle signals prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule by light signals: (i) These signals shall have the following significance: one flash to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two flashes to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; three flashes to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”; (ii) The duration of each flash shall be about 1 second; and (iii) The light used for this signal shall, if fitted, be one all-round white or yellow light, visible at a minimum range of 2 miles, synchronized with the whistle, and shall comply with the provisions of Annex I to these Rules.
Rule 34
Manoeuvring and warning signals
When vessels are in sight of one another, a power-driven vessel underway, when manoeuvring as authorized or
required by these Rules, shall indicate that manoeuvre by the following signals on her whistle:
- one short blast to mean “I am altering my course to starboard”;
- two short blasts to mean “I am altering my course to port”;
- three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”.
+1n my experience with Lakers and barges in confined quarters, it's always seemed easiest to simply have a handheld VHF in the cockpit and to use it. That and be prepared to fire up the engine if there is any doubt about keeping the situation under control.
You're using international COLREGS. Cristoforo is using United States inland COLREGS, which apply here.I am not condoning the sailboat actions who clearly wasn't in the smartest place, just saying that the merchant boat did not behave to the standards most commercial boats do IME as he didn't signal that he was coming to starboard which was a crucial piece of information and was a COLREG requirement (Rule 34 quoted above).
There is no inland rule requiring the Cuyahoga to blast her horn every time she makes a maneuver, and rightly so. The St. Clair River is narrow with many turns and at any given time will probably have several freighters in it. The constant blasting of horns every time a freighter makes a left or right turn on the river would be annoying and thoroughly useless. And the inland version of the Rule 34 you cite only applies between two power-driven vessels, so there's no obligation on the part of the Cuyahoga to sound any horns, except for five short.)(a) When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules, (i) shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle: One short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side” Two short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side” Three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion” (ii) upon hearing the one or two blast signal of the other shall, if in agreement, sound the same whistle signal and take the steps necessary to effect a safe passing. If, however, from any cause, the vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver, she shall sound the signal specified in Rule 34(d) and each vessel shall take appropriate precautionary action until a safe passing agreement is made.
If we're going to be really precise and pedantic about the rulebook, 34a of the inland COLREGS is for two power-driven vessels meeting one another, so there's no reason to give that single blast.@coyotepup
OK, so he didn't have to sound a short blast....
a single blast would still have been more informative and less noisy than 5 blasts! From the sailboat actions it was obvious that the sailboat skipper was confused and assuming wrongly that the freighter was intending to cross him starboard to starboard, IMO telling him his intentions was the safe thing to do. Even worse when the event is over he sends 2 blasts (may be giving up midway on another set of 5 blasts ?) which means I am coming to portside while he is not! Not very professional...