The Front Almost Fell Off....

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,382
2,189
Wet coast.
Local legend has it that a Peterson 35 owner was engaged in some hanky-panky below with a woman who was not his wife late one night in English Bay, and was run over by the train ferry.  The boat was severely damaged but was repaired and renamed "Level Crossing."

I don't know if this legend is true or false, but I believe there was a Pete 35 around here in the 80's by that name.

 

Panoramix

Super Anarchist
If we're going to be really precise and pedantic about the rulebook, 34a of the inland COLREGS is for two power-driven vessels meeting one another, so there's no reason to give that single blast.

Second, take it from a local.  I race near these freighters all the time and so does every racer on the east side of Michigan and in southern Ontario.  I've been up at the exact spot where that incident took place dozens of times.  Everyone from this area knows what the freighters are going to do because of how limited they are in draft and how they have no choice but to stick to the channel.  The freighters are all going up or down the channel, period, and nowhere else.  They're incapable of arranging passages to one side or the other or playing dodge'em with every sailboat in the channel, and every local knows this.  The skipper was not confused about the freighter's intentions and certainly did not think the Cuyahoga was going starboard to starboard because that would've basically required the Cuyahoga to run aground on the US side of the river.  The video is at a big right turn in the river, so even if somehow he didn't know what the freighter would do, he damn sure should've.  He either wasn't paying attention or thought he could get across the channel before the freighter got there.
So in short the pros assume they don't need to signal their intentions, everybody else should know what they are about to do, and they shouldn't bother even when another boat is obviously trying hard to pass them on the wrong side!

I am used to higher standards from professionals, that's all!

 

MRS OCTOPUS

Anarchist
716
248
AUSTRALIA
So the general consensus appears to be , sailboat skipper is a moron.

The commercial vessel was not shy with using sound signals, with 5 blasts, 2 blasts and 4 blasts.

What is 4 blasts. Is there such a signal ?

 
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basketcase

Fuck you second amendment
4,194
1,126
a long way from home
Reading the comments section on the video is amazing. So many fuckwits believe that the sail boat has right of way. Smdh. Hell.... Even in open water you stay the fuck away from a ship.

 

Panoramix

Super Anarchist
maybe if they are watching. hell... do you really want to take that chance?
In doubt if I find that he is a bit slow to react, I always ask... 9 times out of 10,it ends up something like this:

Ship xxxx this is sailboat yyyy just over 4 miles ahead on your port side, do you copy me? over

yyyy this is xxxx channel 72 please over

OK 72 over

xxxx this is yyyy, good evening Sir, I believe that we are on colliding course, what are your intentions please? Over

Yyyy this is xxxx, yes sir, I am coming 10 degrees on my port side. over

OK, thank you for this, have a good watch, I am listening channel 16 out

OK good evening out

 

coyotepup

Anarchist
793
140
Michigan
So in short the pros assume they don't need to signal their intentions, everybody else should know what they are about to do, and they shouldn't bother even when another boat is obviously trying hard to pass them on the wrong side!

I am used to higher standards from professionals, that's all!
In short you're speaking of something halfway around the world from you where local knowledge matters.

Curious to know: if there are boats coming down both sides of that river, should the freighter blast horns for port-to-port or starboard-to-starboard?  And with the amount of traffic typically found there, and several dozen turns required to navigate the full length of the river, how many horns can one sound under strict adherence to the rules before people just ignore them all?  (Or before the people living along the river go insane?)

It's a huge ship in a narrow channel, so yes, everyone watching that ship should be able to figure out what they are about to do.  Usually it involves avoiding the big continent to either side of it.

 
In short you're speaking of something halfway around the world from you where local knowledge matters.

<snip>

It's a huge ship in a narrow channel, so yes, everyone watching that ship should be able to figure out what they are about to do.  Usually it involves avoiding the big continent to either side of it.
Let’s talk about local knowledge and context. 

The video is looking south (downbound) from a camera on the USA side of the St. Clair River in the shadow of the Blue Water Bridge. 

Conditions:

·        Wind is from N (360*) at 7.0 kts at the nearest NOAA station.

·        Current is running at 6.0 kts under the bridge

·        CUYAHOGA is heading upbound at 11.2 kts, so apparent wind is 18.2 kts

·        Sailboat is heading/drifting downbound in 6.0 kts of current, so apparent wind is 1.0 +/- kts   

At 0:48 the fun really starts.  Notice the raised bridge in the background at the entrance of the Black River.  Also notice the CG vessel on the shore to the right.  Now look at the aerial image attached that gives the location at the 0:48 mark.  This is about 0.75 miles south of the BWB. 

At this point the river is about 1400’ wide and under the Blue Water Bridge the river is only 860’ wide.  CUYAHOGA is 608” LOA, draws 20” and has a beam of 60.5’ – she needs to be at full speed heading into both the current and into the wind lest she get blown sideways and block the river, ala EVERGREEN in the Suez. 

Cannot tell you how many times I’ve transited that area both upbound and downbound in sailboats ranging from 32’ to 42’ and we ALWAYS had the engine running to make sure we had steerage. 

IMHO CUYAHOGA did everything right, the sailboat, not so much.

Cuyahoga v Intrepid 048.JPG

Up Bound Color.JPG

 

gt-MTb

Member
81
50
·        Sailboat is heading/drifting downbound in 6.0 kts of current, so apparent wind is 1.0 +/- kts   
Very good analysis... but  although they may be drifting down-current, they are pointed East (camera pointing South and you see the side of Intrepid).

What I still don't understand is why Intrepid is in that part of the river.  Was told they are actually racing in the Lexington-to-PHYC Race when this happened... if you want to get to PHYC quickly, wouldn't you hug the American shore a lot closer?  Seems like plenty of water to the West, if they wanted to clear the laker's path, why did they try to go East?

 

coyotepup

Anarchist
793
140
Michigan
Let’s talk about local knowledge and context. 

The video is looking south (downbound) from a camera on the USA side of the St. Clair River in the shadow of the Blue Water Bridge. 

Conditions:

·        Wind is from N (360*) at 7.0 kts at the nearest NOAA station.

·        Current is running at 6.0 kts under the bridge

·        CUYAHOGA is heading upbound at 11.2 kts, so apparent wind is 18.2 kts

·        Sailboat is heading/drifting downbound in 6.0 kts of current, so apparent wind is 1.0 +/- kts   

At 0:48 the fun really starts.  Notice the raised bridge in the background at the entrance of the Black River.  Also notice the CG vessel on the shore to the right.  Now look at the aerial image attached that gives the location at the 0:48 mark.  This is about 0.75 miles south of the BWB. 

At this point the river is about 1400’ wide and under the Blue Water Bridge the river is only 860’ wide.  CUYAHOGA is 608” LOA, draws 20” and has a beam of 60.5’ – she needs to be at full speed heading into both the current and into the wind lest she get blown sideways and block the river, ala EVERGREEN in the Suez. 

Cannot tell you how many times I’ve transited that area both upbound and downbound in sailboats ranging from 32’ to 42’ and we ALWAYS had the engine running to make sure we had steerage. 

IMHO CUYAHOGA did everything right, the sailboat, not so much.
Agree with all.  Actually, I think the apparent wind on Cuyahoga is much more than 18 knots given the shape of the flags on her bridge.  Just further emphasizes the point that she has to transit the channel correctly and can't be playing Frogger with sideways sailboats.

 
62
41
BE
Could this cuyahoga dude pass the sailboat astern ? Much easier for all parties. I bet he thought:” fuckit I have right of way and I am bigger so I run them over if needed to make my point” ……. Dickhead then

 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
11,078
2,712
Was that at Buffalo?

FB- Doug
And just for fun, possibly the best picture ever taken from the club bar. 100+ Lightnings during that event had the right wind conditions to carry kites for the dock race. We kind of plugged up the harbor. 7FF86AD3-8346-4CF7-92B0-48E0F0E2B621.jpeg

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,577
10,268
Eastern NC
And just for fun, possibly the best picture ever taken from the club bar. 100+ Lightnings during that event had the right wind conditions to carry kites for the dock race. We kind of plugged up the harbor. View attachment 460136
That is cool. I never raced at Sheboygan, but there have been a couple of big races featuring "interference" from commercial traffic. My answer was always, "we're doing this for fun, those guys are trying to make a living and you're in their way."

Great pic looking over the jetty, thanks

FB- Doug

 


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