The "Good Guy with a gun" myth

jzk

Super Anarchist
12,359
405
I made no comment on what Steam wrote. You demanding I comment on it now is bullshit.

You seemed to think the situation with Baldwin is (somehow) relevant to the thread. Else, why bring it up?

But, yeah. Using a gun as a prop for filming, and finding out someone fucked up in that a live round was included is exactly the same as what happened to Arlene Alvarez.
I responded to what Steam wrote. How might you be able to figure that out? I quoted his words. Steam was wrong, which is not uncommon.

I didn't mention Arlene Alvarez.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,205
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Eastern NC
I responded to what Steam wrote. How might you be able to figure that out? I quoted his words. Steam was wrong, which is not uncommon.

I didn't mention Arlene Alvarez.

Really? This is wrong?
... Shooting a gun in a manner that kills another person, when the person killed was in no way committing any kind of illegal act, is in fact a crime. ...

Please give some further info on how it's OK to kill people for any/no reason.
 

jzk

Super Anarchist
12,359
405
Really? This is wrong?


Please give some further info on how it's OK to kill people for any/no reason.
You are changnig the facts. You said "Shooting a gun in a manner that kills another person, when the person killed was in no way committing any kind of illegal act, is in fact a crime." Now you are saying that my position is that it is "OK to kill people for any/no reason." Do you understand the difference between those two scenarios?

Alec Baldwin might be an example of how it is not criminal to shoot someone with a gun that was not committing any kind of illegal act. Also, if a police officer has justification to shoot a suspect, misses, and kills a bystander who was "in no way committing any kind of illegal act," that would also not be a crime.
 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
29,210
4,303
What if Alec Baldwin is a police officer and you are in public pissing on a fire hydrant? Legal shot?
 

Bus Driver

Bacon Quality Control Specialist
You are changnig the facts. You said "Shooting a gun in a manner that kills another person, when the person killed was in no way committing any kind of illegal act, is in fact a crime." Now you are saying that my position is that it is "OK to kill people for any/no reason." Do you understand the difference between those two scenarios?

Alec Baldwin might be an example of how it is not criminal to shoot someone with a gun that was not committing any kind of illegal act. Also, if a police officer has justification to shoot a suspect, misses, and kills a bystander who was "in no way committing any kind of illegal act," that would also not be a crime.
What about a citizen? You know, the old "good guy with a gun".

Are innocent bystanders killed by errant shots simply collateral damage?

I say "No."
 

jzk

Super Anarchist
12,359
405
What about a citizen? You know, the old "good guy with a gun".

Are innocent bystanders killed by errant shots simply collateral damage?

I say "No."
If a "citizen" has legal justification to fire a weapon, but misses and causes collateral damage, that is not a crime.

Can a police officer be a citizen?
 

Bus Driver

Bacon Quality Control Specialist
If a "citizen" has legal justification to fire a weapon, but misses and causes collateral damage, that is not a crime.

Can a police officer be a citizen?
I hope you never have a loved one killed by an errant shot by one of these "good guys with a gun".

A police officer is both a citizen and a sworn officer. The part about being a sworn officer carries a bit more weight and responsibility, IMHO.

Your mileage may vary.
 

VhmSays

Supreme Anarchist
1,651
357
So If I say someone attempted to rob me, fled when I resisted but then I heard gunshots, it gives me carte blanche to pull out an AR and empty it in the general direction where I suspect the gunshots came from? Does it matter how many are killed before it turns into crime instead of collateral? So a single kid in a B'day party inside a house across the street is obviously collateral, what if along with that kid his family and a few other friends die, collateral or crime? What if along with the people in that party the alleged wannabe thief is shot outside their building, was it justified then?

What if someone went to the guys house to put him down like a rabid animal.
"I went over to talk but he saw my weapon and I guess he panicked and went for his gun so I shot him in self defense."
"Why were you carrying a gun."
"It's my 2nd amendment Right and totally irrelevant to the discussion."
"But he wasn't armed"
"Well he moved his hand like he was going for a gun, I was in total fear for my life and just reacted as is my right."
Crime or self defense?
 

jzk

Super Anarchist
12,359
405
I hope you never have a loved one killed by an errant shot by one of these "good guys with a gun".

A police officer is both a citizen and a sworn officer. The part about being a sworn officer carries a bit more weight and responsibility, IMHO.

Your mileage may vary.
I hope you never have a loved one killed at all.

I was discussing the current state of the world, and how Steam was wrong about it. If you would like to discuss how things should be, we could do that also.
 

gptyk

Anarchist
731
402
California
What if someone went to the guys house to put him down like a rabid animal.
"I went over to talk but he saw my weapon and I guess he panicked and went for his gun so I shot him in self defense."
"Why were you carrying a gun."
"It's my 2nd amendment Right and totally irrelevant to the discussion."
"But he wasn't armed"
"Well he moved his hand like he was going for a gun, I was in total fear for my life and just reacted as is my right."
Crime or self defense?

Standard police procedure. Carry extra real-lookin bb guns in the squad car to ensure the guy you just shot was "armed."

If'n that little girl was a lily white daughter of a GOP donor all possible charges would have been filed immediately. And the sad thing is we all know it.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
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Eastern NC
... I was discussing the current state of the world, and how Steam was wrong about it....

Uh huh. You keep saying that, as though repeating it makes it true.
What exactly am I wrong about? I said

... Shooting a gun in a manner that kills another person, when the person killed was in no way committing any kind of illegal act, is in fact a crime....

And there is a large body of law which agrees with me. Perhaps as a failed lawyer, you prefer to deny these kinds of things.
 

jzk

Super Anarchist
12,359
405
Uh huh. You keep saying that, as though repeating it makes it true.
What exactly am I wrong about? I said



And there is a large body of law which agrees with me. Perhaps as a failed lawyer, you prefer to deny these kinds of things.
There is no body of law in the US that agrees with you. In every jurisdiction in the land, there are all sorts of instances where "Shooting a gun in a manner that kills another person, when the person killed was in no way committing any kind of illegal act, is in fact a crime" would not be true.

Why do you choose to debate a topic when you are so clearly wrong? Can't you pick a topic where there is more gray area? You are just plain wrong here and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain. Just acknowledge your error and move on.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
Safe to say no matter what nationality he may be, he must live with recklessly slaughtering a little kid. So will his family, friends, and coworkers. He's fucked his one goat.

He thought having a gun meant he didn't have to take shit, not no way, not no how, not from anyone ever again. Wrong.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,205
9,586
Eastern NC
Safe to say no matter what nationality he may be, he must live with recklessly slaughtering a little kid. So will his family, friends, and coworkers. He's fucked his one goat.

He thought having a gun meant he didn't have to take shit, not no way, not no how, not from anyone ever again. Wrong.

I suspect it doesn't bother him much. But hey, at least he's got jzk on his side!!
 

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