THE IMOCA thread, single/double handed & TOR

[TheDragon]

Can someone point me to details of how the foils are controlled? Is it entirely manual adjustments by the skipper or is there some kind of computer control for the pitch and rake? And if computer, are they allowed to adjust as frequently as they want, every second?

 

[JonRowe]

Can someone point me to details of how the foils are controlled? Is it entirely manual adjustments by the skipper or is there some kind of computer control for the pitch and rake? And if computer, are they allowed to adjust as frequently as they want, every second?

The IMOCA rule allows hydraulic control in two places only, keel cant via a supplied one design system and rudder yaw (left/right) for autopilot. Everything else is manual power.

 

[Sailbydate]

^^Interesting V2 foil design for 11th Hour Racing's IMOCA60, especially as it relates to the spur, which I imagine is supposed minimise leeway. This is something like the V1 retro-fit foils which Nick Holroyd designed for the older IMOCA60's. Interestingly, those foils were ditched for new V2 foils without spurs. 

That new foil span is massive, compared to the V1 foils on the old Hugo Boss, which were originally considered massive. Not too dissimilar to the new crop of VPLP and Verdier V2 foils, except for the spur. 

Anyone know who designed these V2 foils? Interesting times.

 

[Boink]

From the curvature of the support strut, it appears as if the Spur becomes more vertical as the junction point approaches the hull during retraction. Certainly got span, which will help with drag. 

It's not like that boat was slow. Hopefully given it a another shot of steroids.

Must be phenomenally expensive to build.

Can't understand why this boat is going for a crack at the VG (especially with the delay of the Oceans Race).

 

[JonRowe]

Can't understand why this boat isn't going for a crack at the VG (especially with the delay of the Oceans Race).

Alex chose to sell it to a team that was tilting at doing The Ocean Race rather than the VG, which is sensible for him, and to enter the VG you had to apply by the 1st November last year, so from that point out boats are locked into a skipper / boat combo. You can't just charter another boat and swap etc.

 

[Sailbydate]

From the curvature of the support strut, it appears as if the Spur becomes more vertical as the junction point approaches the hull during retraction. Certainly got span, which will help with drag. 

It's not like that boat was slow. Hopefully given it a another shot of steroids.

Must be phenomenally expensive to build.

Can't understand why this boat is going for a crack at the VG (especially with the delay of the Oceans Race).

Pretty sure a condition of sale to from Alex Thomson Racing to 11th Hour Racing, was that the boat would not compete in the 2020 VG. Pretty smart move as, Alex knew how quick she was.

 

[Barons]

AT gets his qualifying done:

https://www.alexthomsonracing.com/blog/2020/07/17/alex-thomson-completes-qualification-for-vendee-globe-2020/ 

 

[JoeBleaux]

AT gets his qualifying done:

https://www.alexthomsonracing.com/blog/2020/07/17/alex-thomson-completes-qualification-for-vendee-globe-2020/ 

Wow, first time sailing the boat solo. Guess it doesn't matter all that much, surprising to hear though. Guess it easier to do all of the testing & figure out the modes with more people on the boat. 

 

[Foolish]

Very interesting notes from Tip & Shaft newsletter.  The boats are sooooo fast that they are unlivable. 

Increasingly uncomfortable un-livable boats

While the top three clearly earmark themselves as contenders for victory in the Vendée Globe, all our experts question their ability to live long term with the pace, as the new ones set new levels of discomfort but also the older generation with big, new foils, they are infernal in high-speed conditions.
 
"There are times when they can't move in the boat at all,” comments Romain Attanasio. “This time they had transitions that allowed them to relax and get out of their seats, but we'll see on the Vendée how they'll do if it lasts several days. That is going to be quite a challenge. This is almost the first time a skipper will have to slow down because he can no longer stand the ‘living’ conditions on board."
 
What is not so obvious, according to Didier Ravon: "Four years ago, Armel finally did not foil so much in the South, but now, down there with their big foils, they're not going to be able to retract them (apart from Armel Tripon who has this option on L'Occitane)." 
 
Will the sailors agree to lift their foot off the gas? This will certainly be one of the issues of this Vendée Globe according to Jean-Yves Bernot: "These boats look very demanding: it is clear that when a guy is pushing it or not completely on it is obvious as he quickly loses 3 knots. Knowing how to manage sleep spells so as not to implode en route will become a main topic."
 
It is something which concerns Jacques Caraes : "Medically speaking, we can go from bumps and bruising to fractures,  we're going to have to be careful." 

 

[trimfast]

Very interesting notes from Tip & Shaft newsletter.  The boats are sooooo fast that they are unlivable. 

Increasingly uncomfortable un-livable boats

While the top three clearly earmark themselves as contenders for victory in the Vendée Globe, all our experts question their ability to live long term with the pace, as the new ones set new levels of discomfort but also the older generation with big, new foils, they are infernal in high-speed conditions.
 
"There are times when they can't move in the boat at all,” comments Romain Attanasio. “This time they had transitions that allowed them to relax and get out of their seats, but we'll see on the Vendée how they'll do if it lasts several days. That is going to be quite a challenge. This is almost the first time a skipper will have to slow down because he can no longer stand the ‘living’ conditions on board."
 
What is not so obvious, according to Didier Ravon: "Four years ago, Armel finally did not foil so much in the South, but now, down there with their big foils, they're not going to be able to retract them (apart from Armel Tripon who has this option on L'Occitane)." 
 
Will the sailors agree to lift their foot off the gas? This will certainly be one of the issues of this Vendée Globe according to Jean-Yves Bernot: "These boats look very demanding: it is clear that when a guy is pushing it or not completely on it is obvious as he quickly loses 3 knots. Knowing how to manage sleep spells so as not to implode en route will become a main topic."
 
It is something which concerns Jacques Caraes : "Medically speaking, we can go from bumps and bruising to fractures,  we're going to have to be careful." 

Sleep with a five point harness and a hans device in a race seat.

 

[longy]

A giant bean bag chair filled with foam chunks?

 

[Foolish]

"Medically speaking, we can go from bumps and bruising to fractures, 

It's not just the sleeping.  It's the minute to minute moving around the boat.  Can you imagine trying to stand and move around while driving your jeep on a road at 30-40 mph with bumps ranging from 1' to 60', for hundreds of hours on end.  They won't just need a helmet. They'll need full football gear!  The fact that they have completely enclosed the cockpits is proof that they have taken these boats to a new level that might be beyond human endurance.    It was a dozen years ago I made the comment that racing an IMOCA 60 is more like skippering an aircraft carrier than anything we mortals would consider sailing.  Today, it would be more like flying a stealth bomber in a hurricane. 

 

[Miffy]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the more exp more mature skippers, or boats designed by architects who were doing foiling boats the last time around - have pushed their boats to be more and more enclosed - with Hugo Boss at the extreme but Charal/Apivia basically enclosed now as well (plus many prior non-foiling boats rebuilt to be foilers are enclosed).

When the VG gets started - I'm imagining a lot of content being sent back that's barely audible. 

 

[Raptorsailor]

Can someone point me to details of how the foils are controlled? Is it entirely manual adjustments by the skipper or is there some kind of computer control for the pitch and rake? And if computer, are they allowed to adjust as frequently as they want, every second?

I'm pretty sure they're controlled passively as in the skipper manually sets the angle of the foil and leaves them until conditions change like a new point of sail or changing weather conditions. 

 

[Kenny Dumas]

Many years ago some crazies set the cross Atlantic motor boat record. The only livable place was seats with suspension. One broken ankle accessing engine room 

 

[Chasm]

The more you read about the current IMOCA the more the Ultime race looks like the reasonable thing...

 

[Ahstom]

I'm pretty sure they're controlled passively as in the skipper manually sets the angle of the foil and leaves them until conditions change like a new point of sail or changing weather conditions. 

I confirm: foil settings are done manually. 

 

[Bruno]

Also love the editing. Every time the bow comes up and the foils are about to stall the footage cuts away.

I think that I read that some are going for more low end lift/stability at the expense of high end performance, many came back from Iceland talking about sailing more like multis, backing off for seastate.

 

[Bruno]

I confirm: foil settings are done manually. 

Shims?

 

[terrafirma]

Very interesting notes from Tip & Shaft newsletter.  The boats are sooooo fast that they are unlivable. 

Increasingly uncomfortable un-livable boats

While the top three clearly earmark themselves as contenders for victory in the Vendée Globe, all our experts question their ability to live long term with the pace, as the new ones set new levels of discomfort but also the older generation with big, new foils, they are infernal in high-speed conditions.
 
"There are times when they can't move in the boat at all,” comments Romain Attanasio. “This time they had transitions that allowed them to relax and get out of their seats, but we'll see on the Vendée how they'll do if it lasts several days. That is going to be quite a challenge. This is almost the first time a skipper will have to slow down because he can no longer stand the ‘living’ conditions on board."
 
What is not so obvious, according to Didier Ravon: "Four years ago, Armel finally did not foil so much in the South, but now, down there with their big foils, they're not going to be able to retract them (apart from Armel Tripon who has this option on L'Occitane)." 
 
Will the sailors agree to lift their foot off the gas? This will certainly be one of the issues of this Vendée Globe according to Jean-Yves Bernot: "These boats look very demanding: it is clear that when a guy is pushing it or not completely on it is obvious as he quickly loses 3 knots. Knowing how to manage sleep spells so as not to implode en route will become a main topic."
 
It is something which concerns Jacques Caraes : "Medically speaking, we can go from bumps and bruising to fractures,  we're going to have to be careful." 

Doesn't sound like too much fun.! Looking at the foiling footage I can imagine being down below being akin to something like an aeroplane stuck in turbulence.! Fasten your seatbelts and don't move around the cabin. My guess is in a way they will cherish the doldrums for some much needed rest and comfort.