THE IMOCA thread, single/double handed & TOR

[Sailbydate]

Doesn't sound like too much fun.! Looking at the foiling footage I can imagine being down below being akin to something like an aeroplane stuck in turbulence.! Fasten your seatbelts and don't move around the cabin. My guess is in a way they will cherish the doldrums for some much needed rest and comfort. 

As they race from black squall cloud, to even blacker squall cloud you mean, Terra? ;-)

 

[Lakrass]

Very interesting notes from Tip & Shaft newsletter.  The boats are sooooo fast that they are unlivable. 

Increasingly uncomfortable un-livable boats

While the top three clearly earmark themselves as contenders for victory in the Vendée Globe, all our experts question their ability to live long term with the pace, as the new ones set new levels of discomfort but also the older generation with big, new foils, they are infernal in high-speed conditions.
 
"There are times when they can't move in the boat at all,” comments Romain Attanasio. “This time they had transitions that allowed them to relax and get out of their seats, but we'll see on the Vendée how they'll do if it lasts several days. That is going to be quite a challenge. This is almost the first time a skipper will have to slow down because he can no longer stand the ‘living’ conditions on board."
 
What is not so obvious, according to Didier Ravon: "Four years ago, Armel finally did not foil so much in the South, but now, down there with their big foils, they're not going to be able to retract them (apart from Armel Tripon who has this option on L'Occitane)." 
 
Will the sailors agree to lift their foot off the gas? This will certainly be one of the issues of this Vendée Globe according to Jean-Yves Bernot: "These boats look very demanding: it is clear that when a guy is pushing it or not completely on it is obvious as he quickly loses 3 knots. Knowing how to manage sleep spells so as not to implode en route will become a main topic."
 
It is something which concerns Jacques Caraes : "Medically speaking, we can go from bumps and bruising to fractures,  we're going to have to be careful." 

Thomas Ruyant made some interesting comments after the race about the boat being very fast as long as he was "on it" (he meant being continuously adjusting setting to extract best performance). He seemed exhausted at the end and didn't look like he could sustain that rhythm for a whole VG, in addition to the apparent yoyo in pace compared to Charal and Apivia. Looks like L'occitane philosophy is the way to go, target highest average rather than ultimate speed. A big dilemma between how much the skippers want to be in contact to the boat (usually very valuable for solo racing) and comfort to be able to rest. Shock absorbant seat and bed, noise cancelling earplugs/headphones, ...

 

[terrafirma]

Thomas Ruyant made some interesting comments after the race about the boat being very fast as long as he was "on it" (he meant being continuously adjusting setting to extract best performance). He seemed exhausted at the end and didn't look like he could sustain that rhythm for a whole VG, in addition to the apparent yoyo in pace compared to Charal and Apivia. Looks like L'occitane philosophy is the way to go, target highest average rather than ultimate speed. A big dilemma between how much the skippers want to be in contact to the boat (usually very valuable for solo racing) and comfort to be able to rest. Shock absorbant seat and bed, noise cancelling earplugs/headphones, ...

Yeah it's a marathon and we know Thomas went hard at the start. Jeremie perhaps saved some for the end where he seemed to have the legs although it was a see saw affair and I'm tipping about managing yourself, the boat and it's performance over and extended period. 

 

[Ahstom]

Shims?

For the base settings maybe, but since it can be adjusted offshore, my bets are on screws or hydraulic ram to set the position of the top bearing. 

Edit: hydraulic ram must be with hand pump since it can't be power assisted by rule

 

[Miffy]

Meanwhile 11th hour doing its new foil boat testing for an event that doesn’t exist, with one of the best first generation foilers. 

I don’t even understand the program - what’s their investment/PR for? 

maybe the non-participation is more of the result of ATR sale condition, but I struggle to understand programs that spend more time at the dock like ultimes that can totally be invested on people like Phil Sharp or even Conrad for some VG presence. 

 

[yl75]

Seriously, the whole situation stinks. The new owners of the fastest last-gen boat are prevented from racing the VG through some fishy* contractual limit (Keeping in mind that the sale of the old boat, at least in part, funded the construction of the new one), and IMOCA expressed no dissatisfaction?  Yours is a really good point: Imagine the guy, who seems perpetually underfunded yet still manages to win so much, racing the VG on 11th Hour. Do the French love un cheval noir or what?

*I have little understanding of international law.

Not sure what/who you are refering to, besides HBprevious, all the "new owners of the fastest last-gen boat" will be on the start line to my knowledge. And if "no VG 2020" was on HBprevious sales conditions (doubt it), then it has nothing to do with the IMOCA class.

Plus it looks to me that preparing a VG 2020 and a TOR 2021 campaign on the original planning for 11th hour would have been too much, they just got tangled in the virus thing. (with the TOR even 2022 now in doubt)

 

[Bentley the Badger]

11th Hour Racing have never had any intention of competing in the VG. The boat is a training boat for the team and a way to spend some of their bottomless google funded budget. 

My question though is how can you accurately test new foils, for a new boat on an old boat they're not designed for? Equally if they're built and designed for their current boat then why? My understanding is that once the new boat is out of the shed they'll be going record hunting until they finally pull the plug on TOR. Imagine being stuck with their current and their new build 60 with no race to go to... Ooops 

 

[Miffy]

11th Hour Racing have never had any intention of competing in the VG. The boat is a training boat for the team and a way to spend some of their bottomless google funded budget. 

My question though is how can you accurately test new foils, for a new boat on an old boat they're not designed for? Equally if they're built and designed for their current boat then why? My understanding is that once the new boat is out of the shed they'll be going record hunting until they finally pull the plug on TOR. Imagine being stuck with their current and their new build 60 with no race to go to... Ooops 

I always thought it hilarious to be promoting a message of “green environment” while building a new boat to replace the one that’s perfectly fine and serviceable. 

Kind of like wrapping a 747 with vinyl that says no more single use plastics. 

It isn’t quite as dumb as Simeon wanting to build a new VO65, but somehow it feels like it is up there. 

 

[Bentley the Badger]

By the "new owners" of the previous HB I mean potentially any entity that were willing to pay for it, not necessarily the eventual new owners. Sure, It's controversial to call the previous HB the "fastest" of the prior generation, though it is the "fastest" by at least one indisputable measure.  And I suppose it's hearsay that non-participation in the VG 2020 was a pre-condition of the sale.  If true, I would think that some members of IMOCA would scoff at the thought of the demonstrably "fastest" example of their class being prevented from racing in the most prestigious event of their class, or being bought ostensibly as a "test boat," when there are a number of skippers out there with the chops to compete, but who either have no boat, or an older less competitive one.

While I don't want to disagree with you I don't think IMOCA would be overly concerned. Pre COVID they had 35 entries into the VG - admittedly not all will now make it but they still found themselves oversubscribed and had to increase capacity to accommodate additional entries. 

 

[Sailbydate]

Kind of like wrapping a 747 with vinyl that says no more single use plastics. 

Gold!

 

[NZK]

I always thought it hilarious to be promoting a message of “green environment” while building a new boat to replace the one that’s perfectly fine and serviceable. 

Not just the new 60 either, got the 85 to add to the stable of sustainability....

 

[Sailbydate]

Not just the new 60 either, got the 85 to add to the stable of sustainability....

View attachment 378076

Jeeez. They need pie warmers on the end of that draggy bitch, to get that ensign flyin

 

[GBH]

By the "new owners" of the previous HB I mean potentially any entity that were willing to pay for it, not necessarily the eventual new owners. Sure, It's controversial to call the previous HB the "fastest" of the prior generation, though it is the "fastest" by at least one indisputable measure.  And I suppose it's hearsay that non-participation in the VG 2020 was a pre-condition of the sale.  If true, I would think that some members of IMOCA would scoff at the thought of the demonstrably "fastest" example of their class being prevented from racing in the most prestigious event of their class, or being bought ostensibly as a "test boat," when there are a number of skippers out there with the chops to compete, but who either have no boat, or an older less competitive one.

I rather suspect that there's a clause in there so that AT could revert to that boat if the new one was found wanting

 

[serialsailor]

L'Occitane's "picture run" at the beginning of the Vendée Arctique. The "scow bow" seems to regulate the boat's pitch amazingly well, allowing the foils to work at their best incidence all the time.

 

[bosshawg]

1 hour ago, serialsailor said:

Yet another example of footage being unnecessarily sped up for some reason...
 

I don't know if they're trying to cram more footage into a given video duration, or maybe to make things appear faster than they are, but I find it completely unnecessary and sinks credibility.

 

[serialsailor]

Yet another example of footage being unnecessarily sped up for some reason...
 

I don't know if they're trying to cram more footage into a given video duration, or maybe to make things appear faster than they are, but I find it completely unnecessary and sinks credibility.

Wait what? When is this sped up? The second part looks very fast but i'm not positive it's been sped up.. It could be now that you said it but i'm really not sure.

 

[serialsailor]

Wait what? When is this sped up? The second part looks very fast but i'm not positive it's been sped up.. It could be now that you said it but i'm really not sure.

1:52 looks like the speed is jumping up to me now that you say it.

 

[Sailbydate]

^^^Regardless of the video properties, L'Occitane is a quick boat.

Let's hope, Manuard can sort the structural problems before the start of the VG.

 

[Raptorsailor]

I still think that l'Occitane's scow bow has something to do with the fact there isn't a fully enclosed cockpit. Then again the trend has been towards more scow ish bows in the past 2 generations of IMOCA. I just don't think it's something that will catch on in the future.

 

[serialsailor]

I still think that l'Occitane's scow bow has something to do with the fact there isn't a fully enclosed cockpit. Then again the trend has been towards more scow ish bows in the past 2 generations of IMOCA. I just don't think it's something that will catch on in the future.

I think whether we will see scow bows on future builds will depend on the direction the class take. If they do not let the rule allow for elevators and therefore fully foiling boats, then the scow bow seems like a very good solution do prevent nosediving and have those high, skimming mode, speed averages. If they go full foiling and somehow manage to stabilize that flight enough maybe the scow bow will not be needed.

It's sad that we just have l'Occitane because if it breaks we won't be able to tell. But it will be great to have 3 different trends of hulls and even more different hull/foils combinations come November.

Then again, maybe i'm full of shit and the Manuard design isn't that great of a Vendee Globe boat. Time will tell.