THE IMOCA thread, single/double handed & TOR

[NZK]

11th hour reaching on port with their new foil.

Some of this video looks sped-up to me? At this point in the TOR saga 11th Hour would have been better off snapping up one of Gabart's Ultimes....

As for AT being able to manage fatigue - some of the latest pictures show him looking pretty lean, it made me think he's might be putting more of an effort into endurance training? Or he was just back from his solo passage and hadn't refuelled yet...

 

[Ahstom]

Some of this video looks sped-up to me? At this point in the TOR saga 11th Hour would have been better off snapping up one of Gabart's Ultimes....

As for AT being able to manage fatigue - some of the latest pictures show him looking pretty lean, it made me think he's might be putting more of an effort into endurance training? Or he was just back from his solo passage and hadn't refuelled yet...

Yep, that feels sped-up to me aswell

 

[Chimp too]

Yep, that feels sped-up to me aswell

Don’t think so

 

[yl75]

Sped up like crazy, the sea doesn't even seem real, around the end.

 

[Sailbydate]

Sped up like crazy, the sea doesn't even seem real, around the end.

Where's a bloody seagull when you need one? ;-)

 

[Lakrass]

Nice choice of picture to illustrate below article, kind of still picture shouting speed!

https://www.sail-world.com/news/230626/How-will-they-set-the-(dis)-comfort-cursor

Nothing really new or revolutionary in the article but it sums up pretty well the current state and challenges of the fleet. Some comments:
- Interesting bit about flat sea vs wind speed, this will surely have an impact on polars and routing software.
- Confirm that a boat that can go fast after a proper setup and skipper as passenger rather than continuously active will have a huge advantage.
- Looks like those boats are more prone to skipper injuries, between les predictability of boat movements and bigger shocks, skipper protection has to be considered in the ergonomy.
- Curious to see if we will notice "nitro boost" if a skipper decide to push hard for a couple of days or so to try and make a difference (or make up some lost ground). I guess we could have some yo-yo effect between boats like we had during Vendee Arctic (especially LinkedOut vs Charal/Apivia).

 

[yl75]

Interesting interview of Josse, below :

https://www.ouest-france.fr/vendee-globe/vendee-globe-sebastien-josse-nicolas-troussel-sera-dans-le-match-6930821

Especially :

Et de quel ordre est le fossé entre les Imoca à foils de 2020 et ceux de 2016 ?

Il est aussi significatif que celui qu’il y a entre les bateaux à dérives et les premiers foilers. Le fossé, il est dans les vitesses moyennes. Il y a huit ans, un Imoca avançait à 10-11 nœuds au près, quatre ans plus tard, avec les premiers foilers, on avait gagné deux à trois nœuds au reaching, et avec la nouvelle génération, on a, à nouveau, gagné deux à trois nœuds au reaching. Un bateau comme Corum avance à 14-15 nœuds au près, et dès qu’on choque les écoutes, on arrive vite à 17 noeuds au débridé (près bon plein). L’évolution est vraiment importante entre le près et le vent de travers, on a gagné près de 30 % en vitesse. Aux allures portantes, la différence est moindre. Et en termes de comportement, cela n’a plus rien à voir. Désormais on cherche réellement la sustentation du bateau, et tout le temps, à toutes les allures, même au près.

Après, on parle tout le temps des foils, mais le plan de voilure est aussi très important. On s’est rendu compte avec les Ultimes que la surface de voile ne fait pas toujours avancer plus vite, mais, au contraire, provoque parfois de la traînée aérodynamique, et c’est valable aussi sur les Imoca. En fait, dès que l’on a réussi à décoller, on a moins besoin de surface de voile.

 

[yl75]

By the way when saying "reaching conditions", which angle does it corresponds exactly ( i mean from which to which)

like in below for instance :

Note : equivalent in French :

Are there in English you some kind of agreed names for subdivitions for close hauled for instance ? (for sure now one often directly speak of the angle in numbers), how about in Italian, German , Spanish, other ?

 

[Sailbydate]

^Somewhere Close to Beam, I'd suggest.

 

[yl75]

Note : for me now in French "petit largue" as above is almost not used anymore, or merged with "travers" (meaning across), but "bon plein" or "près bon plein" is still used quite a lot

 

[yl75]

^Somewhere Close to Beam, I'd suggest.

like 10° above full beam, 20° below ? or 10 and 10 ?

 

[Laurent]

Près Bon Plein is what I believe is called sometimes "Oceanic Close Hauled"...

So yeah, you are going against the wind, but you bear off a bit so life is easier on board. Not so much seesaw swinging and not walking on the walls...

 

[yl75]

Do you still use "petit largue" as above Laurent ? Or have you ever used it ?

 

[Laurent]

For me, "petit largue" is "close reach". Personal interpretation. I do not claim to have the holy truth here....

 

[yl75]

For me, "petit largue" is "close reach". Personal interpretation. I do not claim to have the holy truth here....

But the question was whether you use it or not ?

(for me I think it was still used for the few dinghy classes I took as a kid, then moved to windsurfing, and "keel boats" later (cruising, some races), where I don't remember it being used.

And in fact on some pages it has disappeared, like  :

https://mersetbateaux.com/voiles-allures-reglages/

or :

https://virtualregatta.zendesk.com/hc/fr/articles/115001500854-Comment-avance-mon-bateau-

 

[OPAL]

 

[yl75]

Some people tell me that "full and by" is the English equivalent of "bon plein" or "près bon plein" (that is closed hauled, but not to the max, like 10° away from the max), is that the case ? Or is it a synonym of "close hauled" ?

 

[Fiji Bitter]

Some people tell me that "full and by" is the English equivalent of "bon plein" or "près bon plein" (that is closed hauled, but not to the max, like 10° away from the max), is that the case ? Or is it a synonym of "close hauled" ?

Seems to be a much used term in traditional sailing, but not at all in racing, afaik. 

From https://www.nauticed.org/sailingterms#F



Full and by


Sailing into the wind (by), but not as close-hauled as might be possible, so as to make sure the sails are kept full. This provides a margin for error to avoid being taken aback (a serious risk for square-rigged vessels) in a tricky sea. Figuratively it implies getting on with the job but in a steady, relaxed way, without undue urgency or strain.


 


However, in offshore racing, in the longer legs and particulary in less predictable weather, it often is a good gamble to cover more ground and sail into more favourable weather. Best VMG is not always best.


 

 

[yl75]

Seems to be a much used term in traditional sailing, but not at all in racing, afaik. 

From https://www.nauticed.org/sailingterms#F



Full and by


Sailing into the wind (by), but not as close-hauled as might be possible, so as to make sure the sails are kept full. This provides a margin for error to avoid being taken aback (a serious risk for square-rigged vessels) in a tricky sea. Figuratively it implies getting on with the job but in a steady, relaxed way, without undue urgency or strain.


 


However, in offshore racing, in the longer legs and particulary in less predictable weather, it often is a good gamble to cover more ground and sail into more favourable weather. Best VMG is not always best.


 

Thanks ! So indeed it looks exactly like it

 

[kokopelli]

11th hour reaching on port with their new foil.

Does it seem like the new foils has a ventilation problem?  Maybe due to twist increasing the AoA in the very high aspect tip?  Seems at times they are fully ventilating 1/3 of the foil span.  That cannot be fast.