The Ocean Race 2023 leg 3: Capetown to Itajaí, Brazil

bushsailor

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QLD Australia
Still can't get my head around their rudders failing from an engineering or construction point of view.? Hitting a UFO is one thing but failing due to wear and tear is inexcusable..!
I cant get my head around the whole boat design of probably all the boats being too fragile for a round the world race. Surely building a boat that is 500kg heavier would be faster overall if you did not have to back off so much. (They are probably caring 100kg of carbon repair kit anyway)
 

Dogfish

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I cant get my head around the whole boat design of probably all the boats being too fragile for a round the world race. Surely building a boat that is 500kg heavier would be faster overall if you did not have to back off so much. (They are probably caring 100kg of carbon repair kit anyway)
Totally agree, last Vendee race guys from a very light boat were critical of a heavier design for not been optimized it finished they did not.
 

oioi

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I cant get my head around the whole boat design of probably all the boats being too fragile for a round the world race. Surely building a boat that is 500kg heavier would be faster overall if you did not have to back off so much. (They are probably caring 100kg of carbon repair kit anyway)
There is a balance. Build it too light and stuff breaks. Build it too heavy and stuff breaks because the loads have gone up.
Great example is the one design mast.
In a light boat, gust hits, boat accelerates, wahey, smiles all round.
In a heavy boat, gust hits, boat loads, is slow to accelerate, and if your carrying too much sail, mast goes over. You might have to reduce sail earlier in a heavier boat.
 

Herman

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Weather routing March 21st
The fleet is still enjoying the moderate winds due to the huge HP to their NW.

Pic 1 has Sat IR color 0730Z and GFS wind and pressure plus the HP/LPs.
Pic 1 SAT IR color 0730Z and GFS.png



Wx to Cape Horn
GFS still says no for March 24th and 25th with winds up to 40 kts and sig waves op to 7 meters along the AIEZ and a deadly lee shore waiting. Things getting better in the evening of March 25th. Sea state will still be (very) bad with 5 meters sig waves March 26th 00Z below 48 degrees south latitude (WW3). And 6 meters below 52 degrees South.

ECMWF and WAM show different size of the predicted wind and waves for March 25th 03Z. But still 7 meters sig waves and 35 kts steady winds. See pics 2 and 3 below, pink lines are the significant wave iso lines.

Pic 2 ECMWF WAM March 25th 03Z
Pic 2 ECMWF WAM March 25th 03Z.png


Pic 3 GFS WW3 March 25th 03Z
Pic 3 GFS WW3 March 25th 03Z.png
 

ct800

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Paul @ Biotherm also referring to 30-40 knots and 8m waves upcoming, and finding the balance in routing vs. speed.

3rd reef, storm jib?, foil rakes for stability...
 

Potter

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I cant get my head around the whole boat design of probably all the boats being too fragile for a round the world race. Surely building a boat that is 500kg heavier would be faster overall if you did not have to back off so much. (They are probably caring 100kg of carbon repair kit anyway)
A lot of these teams are using the TOR as evaluation for the important race, the Vendee Globe. With crew, and associated kit/food, they are heavier than they will be at the start of the Vendee. So if they get through this race they know how light/heavy they need to be for the Vendee Globe.
Boris has chosen a heavier boat, so that he can push harder and be more relaxed. It is likely to mean that he is significantly slower in the doldrums and High Pressures. Another sailor can choose a far lighter design, and know that the loads are reduced, but that he will have to back off earlier in storm conditions. On the other hand big gains to be made in the soft stuff.
Everything in Ocean Racing is a compromise, as Oioi said.
 

eliboat

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Is boris’ boat actually that much heavier? The big trade off as far as I understand is that he has a shorter waterline and much fuller sections forward paired with the spoon bow. This makes him slower in the light stuff, but the big waves/wind benefits are easy to see as far as how the boat handles. Like night and day vs the other boats currently sailing. It will be interesting to see the other IMOCAs that are currently in build or have just been built to see if any have the same qualities. I know many, if not most of the latest generation are featuring the Sam Manuard bows.

The other thing about Malizia that is pretty cool is the cabin. It seems to me that they nailed the cabin space. It’s huge and livable with fewer compromises compared to the other boats.
 

JonRowe

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Offshore.
Is boris’ boat actually that much heavier? The big trade off as far as I understand is that he has a shorter waterline and much fuller sections forward paired with the spoon bow. This makes him slower in the light stuff, but the big waves/wind benefits are easy to see as far as how the boat handles. Like night and day vs the other boats currently sailing. It will be interesting to see the other IMOCAs that are currently in build or have just been built to see if any have the same qualities. I know many, if not most of the latest generation are featuring the Sam Manuard bows.

The other thing about Malizia that is pretty cool is the cabin. It seems to me that they nailed the cabin space. It’s huge and livable with fewer compromises compared to the other boats.

The cabin is the heavy bit, its needed to the best of my understanding to have the volume for righting moment, as their "inside" cockit is actually open to the elements via the two sides with no doors (just clears).

(To be clear, I like the boat and think its taken some good design decisions for multipurpose use).
 

RiseUp

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Is boris’ boat actually that much heavier? The big trade off as far as I understand is that he has a shorter waterline and much fuller sections forward paired with the spoon bow. This makes him slower in the light stuff, but the big waves/wind benefits are easy to see as far as how the boat handles. Like night and day vs the other boats currently sailing. It will be interesting to see the other IMOCAs that are currently in build or have just been built to see if any have the same qualities. I know many, if not most of the latest generation are featuring the Sam Manuard bows.

The other thing about Malizia that is pretty cool is the cabin. It seems to me that they nailed the cabin space. It’s huge and livable with fewer compromises compared to the other boats.
If I remember correctly Malizia's hull isn't built in the usual sandwich lamination with relatively thin carbon layers on the inside and outside of a foam but in solid carbon. Boris says it's much stiffer and he's "absolutely sure" it won't break. I am lacking any more details. Meilhat joked Malizia is built from the double amount of carbon compared to Biotherm.
So at least the delamination that happened on Guyot should be impossible on Malizia.
 

RiseUp

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Is Malizia slower in light air?

They are currently leading having sailed through the same light air HPs as everybody else...
Possibly marginally slower. The original foildesign enabled foiling at lower speed than with the current replacement foils, which have advantages in rougher seas however.
 
The cabin is the heavy bit, its needed to the best of my understanding to have the volume for righting moment, as their "inside" cockit is actually open to the elements via the two sides with no doors (just clears).

(To be clear, I like the boat and think its taken some good design decisions for multipurpose use).
They also said that that since that cabin volume makes the boat unstable when upside down and more likely to right itself, then they save the same weight on the keel bulb. I like the boat too, and I think it's likely to improve the human performance of the crew, which can make a difference. I'll be curious as to whether the boat has a real advantage in heavy weather soon, or a disadvantage when going more to windward after rounding Cape Horn and heading North. So far it's been neither, I think.
 
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minca3

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Is boris’ boat actually that much heavier?

Apparently yes, a couple of pages earlier someone mentioned ~500kg IIRC.

build or have just been built to see if any have the same qualities. I know many, if not most of the latest generation are featuring the Sam Manuard bows.

The new boats of Yannik Bestaven and Thomas Ruyant aren't scows. Actually, they look fairly "old school non foiling" hulls to me.

336646207_507819031541232_1068385631528769185_n.jpg
 

eliboat

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If I remember correctly Malizia's hull isn't built in the usual sandwich lamination with relatively thin carbon layers on the inside and outside of a foam but in solid carbon. Boris says it's much stiffer and he's "absolutely sure" it won't break. I am lacking any more details. Meilhat joked Malizia is built from the double amount of carbon compared to Biotherm.
So at least the delamination that happened on Guyot should be impossible on Malizia.
It’s possible there are more areas of solid laminate, but that boat is absolutely cored. You could not make the boat stiff enough with solid laminates everywhere, unless you were cool with it weighing 10x what it should. It’s also possible that he opted for foam in areas where other boats went with nomex. A lot of boats (not just imocas) have had to scrape out delaminated nomex and replace with foam like Guyot Environment over the years. You can engineer honeycomb laminates to be pretty bombproof, but more often than not, when there is core shear failure in a bottom panel it’s a honeycomb laminate. I definitely subscribe to the Boris approach as far as making the structure a bit heavier to avoid having to make structural repairs. It’s interesting to see these repairs be done with crews aboard vs when skippers are on the Vendee. They can push much harder and still affect repairs, in contrast to the complete clusterfuck that occurs when someone is all alone. Not only is it slow on the course, but even with the crewed boats, it’s clearly exhausting to the crews.
 

eliboat

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Apparently yes, a couple of pages earlier someone mentioned ~500kg IIRC.



The new boats of Yannik Bestaven and Thomas Ruyant aren't scows. Actually, they look fairly "old school non foiling" hulls to me.

View attachment 581243
Many if not most! Obviously some are going a different route, however I think the manuard concept has proven to be advantageous.
 

Rennmaus

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Some interviews:
Kevin Escoffier (FRA) - Interview in ENGLISH plus B-roll
Several Interviews in FRENCH and ENGLISH plus B-roll Point Nemo
Boris Herrmann (GER) - Interview in ENGLISH plus B-roll Point Nemo
Heather Carswell - Interview in ENGLISH about sustainability plus B-roll

 
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