The Ocean Race 2023 leg 3: Capetown to Itajaí, Brazil

[meohmy]

It’s possible there are more areas of solid laminate, but that boat is absolutely cored. You could not make the boat stiff enough with solid laminates everywhere, unless you were cool with it weighing 10x what it should. It’s also possible that he opted for foam in areas where other boats went with nomex. A lot of boats (not just imocas) have had to scrape out delaminated nomex and replace with foam like Guyot Environment over the years. You can engineer honeycomb laminates to be pretty bombproof, but more often than not, when there is core shear failure in a bottom panel it’s a honeycomb laminate. I definitely subscribe to the Boris approach as far as making the structure a bit heavier to avoid having to make structural repairs. It’s interesting to see these repairs be done with crews aboard vs when skippers are on the Vendee. They can push much harder and still affect repairs, in contrast to the complete clusterfuck that occurs when someone is all alone. Not only is it slow on the course, but even with the crewed boats, it’s clearly exhausting to the crews.

Malizia has a single-skin hull bottom full length. For reference, this is a thin single-skin carbon shell supported by many stringers, like an aluminium/steel boat. Many other boats have single-skin from stem to midships, or just aft of this. Topsides, deck, bulkheads etc will be a honeycomb sandwich panel. Also, the latest imoca rule does not allow honeycomb in the hull bottom.

The whole single-skin bottom concept has been around for a wee while now, with heaps of images and videos that show it. You can not have hull shell core failure if there is no core..
The stringers that then support the single skin however become critical..

 

[RiseUp]

It’s possible there are more areas of solid laminate, but that boat is absolutely cored. You could not make the boat stiff enough with solid laminates everywhere, unless you were cool with it weighing 10x what it should. It’s also possible that he opted for foam in areas where other boats went with nomex. A lot of boats (not just imocas) have had to scrape out delaminated nomex and replace with foam like Guyot Environment over the years. You can engineer honeycomb laminates to be pretty bombproof, but more often than not, when there is core shear failure in a bottom panel it’s a honeycomb laminate. I definitely subscribe to the Boris approach as far as making the structure a bit heavier to avoid having to make structural repairs. It’s interesting to see these repairs be done with crews aboard vs when skippers are on the Vendee. They can push much harder and still affect repairs, in contrast to the complete clusterfuck that occurs when someone is all alone. Not only is it slow on the course, but even with the crewed boats, it’s clearly exhausting to the crews.

Yep, some kind of core has to be used. Here they just mention foam, which probably still means honeycomb core, which their sponsor Schütz uses in all kind of configurations.

 

[staysail]

Point Nemo VNR:

Second but last clip in this video. Not leg 3. Not Biotherm near Point Nemo!

 

[PIL66 - XL2]

I hate to say it but this has been very boring..... we need some serious breeze..... I really am surprised how similar these speeds are and no one can eek out an advantage in this wind strength

 

[meohmy]

Yep, some kind of core has to be used. Here they just mention foam, which probably still means honeycomb core, which their sponsor Schütz uses in all kind of configurations.

did you even read that article..?! :/

 

[nroose]

I hate to say it but this has been very boring..... we need some serious breeze..... I really am surprised how similar these speeds are and no one can eek out an advantage in this wind strength

Seems like it's not just the lack of serious breeze. It's the fact that they are on the front of the breeze, so the boats at the front run out of runway. Seems like that is the way it goes when the boats are fast enough and the conditions are normal.

 

[dg_sailingfan]

@nroose
The 1M $ Question is when they will make that all important jibe to the South?

 

[nroose]

@nroose
The 1M $ Question is when they will make that all important jibe to the South?

I think it's not quite going to be a million.

 

[dg_sailingfan]

I think it's not quite going to be a million.

My guess is probably tomorrow evening at the latest, maybe even earlier.

 

[terrafirma]

There is a balance. Build it too light and stuff breaks. Build it too heavy and stuff breaks because the loads have gone up.
Great example is the one design mast.
In a light boat, gust hits, boat accelerates, wahey, smiles all round.
In a heavy boat, gust hits, boat loads, is slow to accelerate, and if your carrying too much sail, mast goes over. You might have to reduce sail earlier in a heavier boat.

It seems they got the balance wrong IMO..!

 

[Varan]

Holcim-PRB still working it down. Most southerly boat and in the lead. No need for them to jibe until another does, but I suspect wind and strategy will dictate their moves. They seem to sail "their own" race which has been working out well for them so far.

 

[terrafirma]

Yep, some kind of core has to be used. Here they just mention foam, which probably still means honeycomb core, which their sponsor Schütz uses in all kind of configurations.

He said there was no core.! No core no failure.! Did you not read it before replying LOL.!

 

[terrafirma]

Holcim-PRB still working it down. Most southerly boat and in the lead. No need for them to jibe until another does, but I suspect wind and strategy will dictate their moves. They seem to sail "their own" race which has been working out well for them so far.

Yeah are gaining via VMG not boat speed.

 

[Varan]

Argh on ice limits. As Peter Blake noted..

On board ENZA, living conditions were rough at 61° south. Inside, the heating had broken down. On the deck, water froze in bottles. “It’s nice for penguins but not for humans,” commented Peter Blake.

A watchman was permanently stationed at the boat’s bow. The Kiwi skipper would later tell of coming across “great cathedrals of sculpted ice”. “Some of which we measured by sextant to be a mile across and as much as 200ft high”, said Peter Blake.

Or Bruno on Orange II...
The first iceberg, an estimated fifty meters long and ten meters high, was noticed six miles from the boat on 8 February. At the helm, Bernard Stamm luffed in time to just avoid, by twenty meters, an iceberg that had strayed from growlers bobbing in the wake of icebergs. A watch from the float in the wind was added to the radar watch.

 

[Swanno]

Argh on ice limits. As Peter Blake noted..

On board ENZA, living conditions were rough at 61° south. Inside, the heating had broken down. On the deck, water froze in bottles. “It’s nice for penguins but not for humans,” commented Peter Blake.

A watchman was permanently stationed at the boat’s bow. The Kiwi skipper would later tell of coming across “great cathedrals of sculpted ice”. “Some of which we measured by sextant to be a mile across and as much as 200ft high”, said Peter Blake.

Or Bruno on Orange II...
The first iceberg, an estimated fifty meters long and ten meters high, was noticed six miles from the boat on 8 February. At the helm, Bernard Stamm luffed in time to just avoid, by twenty meters, an iceberg that had strayed from growlers bobbing in the wake of icebergs. A watch from the float in the wind was added to the radar watch.

Doesnt seem like fun to me.

 

[Herman]

Argh on ice limits. As Peter Blake noted..

On board ENZA, living conditions were rough at 61° south. Inside, the heating had broken down. On the deck, water froze in bottles. “It’s nice for penguins but not for humans,” commented Peter Blake.

A watchman was permanently stationed at the boat’s bow. The Kiwi skipper would later tell of coming across “great cathedrals of sculpted ice”. “Some of which we measured by sextant to be a mile across and as much as 200ft high”, said Peter Blake.

Or Bruno on Orange II...
The first iceberg, an estimated fifty meters long and ten meters high, was noticed six miles from the boat on 8 February. At the helm, Bernard Stamm luffed in time to just avoid, by twenty meters, an iceberg that had strayed from growlers bobbing in the wake of icebergs. A watch from the float in the wind was added to the radar watch.

Stuff has improved considerable since. Se the plotted icebergs near Antarctica in my wx maps.

https://usicecenter.gov/Products/AntarcIcebergs

Due to a funeral no wx routing today. Fleet will keep AIEZ to starboard, surprisingly.

 

[RiseUp]

did you even read that article..?! :/

I linked it, so I read it. What do you mean?

 

[RiseUp]

He said there was no core.! No core no failure.! Did you not read it before replying LOL.!

I don't get it. Originally I thought Herrmann mentioned in an interview, they wouldn't use a "foam" core, but I wasn't so sure. Eliboat then stated a hull without a core was virtually impossible. The article I linked mentions foam twice, although explicitly only for strings and deck. Since Schütz produces honeycomp core, I assumed "foam" is precisely that and most probably it would also be used for the hull. So where does it say, there is no core??

 

[JonRowe]

Ironically isn't Guyot the old boss that was one of the first to have a large monolithic section (and requieste lots of stringers) up front?

 

[noaano]

Ironically isn't Guyot the old boss that was one of the first to have a large monolithic section (and requieste lots of stringers) up front?