Slark
Member
Every sailing race should have a personality contest where a bunch of armchair dudes on a forum judge based on a couple dozen YouTube videos. Seems relevant.
The Ocean Race Leg 5: Newport RI to Aarhus DK
- Thread starter Herman
- Start date
Your Mom
Super Anarchist
Every time I check on Biotherm, they're going even slower... I realize they have a shroud problem and need to preserve the mast, but I hope they can find enough speed to get to the finish before they starve and/or miss the in-port...
Be sure that for the next edition, IMOCA's governance and ecosystem, will consider way more this race.
dg_sailingfan
Super Anarchist
At their current rate of speed they will arrive on Sunday June 4 or even Monday June 5.
Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
Very interesting Tweet from Biotherm.
Shows the breakage, interestingly exactly where an S.S. eye would normaly elongate and strengthen in the process.
Another manufacturer fuck up, or possibly under spec or over stressed rigging.
Nice to see them in good spirits though.
Wondering if they could call into Lerwick, a nice Shetland harbour, where the fishing fleet may very well have some big dyneema rope. Or fly a new shroud in from France.
Shows the breakage, interestingly exactly where an S.S. eye would normaly elongate and strengthen in the process.
Another manufacturer fuck up, or possibly under spec or over stressed rigging.
Nice to see them in good spirits though.
Wondering if they could call into Lerwick, a nice Shetland harbour, where the fishing fleet may very well have some big dyneema rope. Or fly a new shroud in from France.
Not to try and excuse the manufacturers in relation to some of these rigging failures, but we also shouldn't forget that these boats produce truly enormous dynamic loads, far beyond any normal type of boat.
The modelling of the dynamic part of these loads is not straightforward, and combining that with trying to build as light as possible leads to failures. But that also improves the modelling for the future.
In a racing context there is a real conundrum of 'if there are no failures probably the boat is over built, heavier than necessary, and therefore slower too' VS 'to finish first, first you must finish'.
Just think of the enormous dynamic load occurring in this photo that was posted earlier, where a boat that was literally flying in the air, then comes off the foils at 30kn and tries to impale itself into the next wave, causing a huge impact and loss of boat speed, while the rig itself wants to continue flying forward at the previous velocity...
In some ways maybe we should already be pretty pleased that they aren't all totally disintegrating after what they endure.
Just for reference I thought I would add this AC75 video too, because it nicely demonstrates some the forces involved in a nose dive off the foils, especially the slow motion part around 40 seconds.
That was a big stop from ETNZ, and I was surprised the rig didn't come down.
The IMOCA boats are experiencing forces like this on a regular basis when out in the ocean.
The modelling of the dynamic part of these loads is not straightforward, and combining that with trying to build as light as possible leads to failures. But that also improves the modelling for the future.
In a racing context there is a real conundrum of 'if there are no failures probably the boat is over built, heavier than necessary, and therefore slower too' VS 'to finish first, first you must finish'.
Just think of the enormous dynamic load occurring in this photo that was posted earlier, where a boat that was literally flying in the air, then comes off the foils at 30kn and tries to impale itself into the next wave, causing a huge impact and loss of boat speed, while the rig itself wants to continue flying forward at the previous velocity...
In some ways maybe we should already be pretty pleased that they aren't all totally disintegrating after what they endure.
Just for reference I thought I would add this AC75 video too, because it nicely demonstrates some the forces involved in a nose dive off the foils, especially the slow motion part around 40 seconds.
That was a big stop from ETNZ, and I was surprised the rig didn't come down.
The IMOCA boats are experiencing forces like this on a regular basis when out in the ocean.
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Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
All very true, but big part of some of the problems is that the mast and most of the rigging is standardized and supplier specific. So in the case of Biotherm's shroud failure it could easily be the boat and foil design, or the way they sail the boat and measure shroud loading.
And the above amazing photo says indeed a lot, that's why I commented with 😲.
That's a proper faceplant, although I cannot quite work out how that happened in the existing wave pattern. Freak wave maybe, as they happen randomly all the time.
The picture is a beauty on its own, but is there a video of it somewhere, for analysis?
Edit PM:
Must be in this one, during Leg 3 (the Long one),
And the above amazing photo says indeed a lot, that's why I commented with 😲.
That's a proper faceplant, although I cannot quite work out how that happened in the existing wave pattern. Freak wave maybe, as they happen randomly all the time.
The picture is a beauty on its own, but is there a video of it somewhere, for analysis?
Edit PM:
Must be in this one, during Leg 3 (the Long one),
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Agreed. Is their boat and foil design inducing more load than the rest of the fleet? Is it how the crew are sailing the boat (some crew are much harder on the boat than others)? Or are they just unlucky?
At least at this level of sailing, racing, and design, ALL of this is being measured and will be analysed for the future.
Yeah, I don't watch all the videos, so I only saw the photo. I also thought the same, seems to be flatter water around them, but as you said a freak wave - which is in fact normal, bigger sets run through periodically - and maybe they got a little high on the foil at the same time and just ploughed into it.
We know that a lot of work continues to be done on bow shapes exactly because of this issue.
After seeing the video that you posted maybe the impact wasn't as bad as I described - at least this time - but it's also deceiving because the boats are travelling at speed and filmed from a drone makes it all look quite majestic. Whereas onboard everything and everyone is taking a constant beating.
The various injuries that have happened to the crew on these boats are a reminder of the motion and the impacts that occur.
And there was an amusing video, of Rosalin Kuiper I think, asleep but with her head and body being shaken around like a rag doll in the bunk.
(maybe someone remembers and will post it)
Swanno
Super Anarchist
DtM
Super Anarchist
Swanno, just look who made the comment. The Village Idiot.
Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
DG's brother, but with some intellect and a peculiar sense of humour.
Apparently he's also the janitor of the Delft University towing tank. Famous for their sailing yacht testing and theoretical work too.
Apparently he's also the janitor of the Delft University towing tank. Famous for their sailing yacht testing and theoretical work too.
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euro
Member
- 153
- 28
And how IYHO did he do that exactly?
@Swanno I just don't get the hysteria and hate on here. I have been a long term observer, without participating for years. Had to chime in when an old friend (with questionable basis) started taking shots at locals I respect (not all friends) over B2G this year. But @dg_sailingfan the bloke just spews garbage and if you point it out, its just crickets. I am autistic to an extent however I believe that humility and acknowledging when a false statement is made is all part of having a well informed debate about a topic.
And what on earth is this mistreatment of Rosalyn, IMO the star of this ocean race to date in terms of (what limited we can get) media?
And what on earth is this mistreatment of Rosalyn, IMO the star of this ocean race to date in terms of (what limited we can get) media?
dg_sailingfan did (does) the same over in the SailGP and America's Cup threads too, it seems to be his MO.
At times I also pointed out that many of the statements appeared to be without factual basis, and as you said afterwards it's just crickets.
Better than more arguing or garbage I suppose. That seems to be the nature of forums though.
Time for normal service to resume?
At times I also pointed out that many of the statements appeared to be without factual basis, and as you said afterwards it's just crickets.
Better than more arguing or garbage I suppose. That seems to be the nature of forums though.
Time for normal service to resume?
Guess it is a win in that I'm off the sidelines on this chat? well maybedg_sailingfan did (does) the same over in the SailGP and America's Cup threads too, it seems to be his MO.
At times I also pointed out that many of the statements appeared to be without factual basis, and as you said afterwards it's just crickets.
Better than more arguing or garbage I suppose. That seems to be the nature of forums though.
Time for normal service to resume?
Swanno
Super Anarchist
Please don’t think any of my barbed comments were directed at you though I agree 100% with your comment.
I think the team dynamic on Malizia is enviable and the Rosie and Will show along with Flight Captain are a marketers dream. It took Boris to identify that and make it all work.
Normally the people who give me the shits on this are the abusive and negative folks though DG is just simply a flog. I do suspect there is something intellectually, and don’t take that as a dig at autism, (personally find it brave of you, and thank you for noting it) though somehow the shit he writes down must have an explanation. There is certainly no logic to it.
I can only assume that he has most people on ignore here to avoid the recoil when he talks shit so it may just mean he is talking to himself when he posts. The only way his audience would agree with his comments.
News about the two wounded boats are scarce...
Anyone has better news ?
- Biotherm posted a video showing the boat sailing with no main, with storm jib + j2 :
Not much more explained there.They're 600 miles from Aarhus and sailed 130 nm last 24 hours. Assuming they don't slow down any more, they would finish on the 4th of June.
Will 4 days be enough to fix the boat ?
Alternatively, they could as well sail directly to The Hague and have enough time for a good repair before leg 7.
- Guyot did not post any news recently but in TM podcast, Boris Herrmann says that they are in Kiel and hope to be able to get to Aarhus, if they find enough money to do so.
Anyone has better news ?
Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
I don't think so, he thrives on posters that get annoyed, or even abuse him badly. Strange case of masochism, as well as just about all other forms of psycho pathology.
Take care Danny Boy, we all love you so!
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