The serious transgender bathroom issue discussion

phillysailor

Super Anarchist
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2,871
Something to think about: genetic chimeras have started cropping up with more common DNA testing. Through fusion of two zygotes at a two or four cell stage, a pregnancy which would ordinarily become separate non identical twins, becomes one individual with two distinct cell lineages.

These people are perhaps freaks in a statistical sense, but they may well have different sex chromosomes in their sex organs and neurological tissues. Do you want to be discriminated against because of your genetic makeup?

Neither do they.

"A genetic chimerism or chimera (also spelled chimaera) is a single organism composed of cells from different zygotes. This can result in male and female organs, two blood types, or subtle variations in form."

 

A guy in the Chesapeake

Super Anarchist
23,965
1,167
Virginia
Here's some information on the Charlotte ordinance in question.

http://charlotteequality.strikingly.com/

It added sex, gender identity, gender expression, sexual orientation, marital or family status to the non-discrimination ordinance.

I can certainly see why the state would want to protect the rights of bigots to discriminate against those groups. They're different than me.
I think that's where the feds will go as well. The State and the Faux news operatives are yelling "Dude in the girls bathroom! Oh My!" but the courts will take a long look at taking away groups of peoples access to the courts.
For me - THIS issue is absolutely worth fighting over, an I would contend that the LGBT community is correct in doing so. I don't agree that keeping gender confused boys out of the girl's locker room = discrimination, and really think that the two things ought to be considered separately.
I really do think the bathroom thing can be handled in a one-off.
But the state decided to go much, much further than the bathrooms.
I would agree that it *should* be able to be handled as a one off.

Read the article I posted a few up - the problem was that parents of a gender confused kid weren't satisfied with the local solution, and wanted to force their son who identifies as a daughter's acceptance in ALL the girl's facilities at school. It is specifically this expectancy of special dispensation on the part of every other kid and parent in the school that I think is wrong.

NC was wrong to prevent civil redress in courts.


I don't think that anyone is advocating discrimination against a gender confused kid. I also don't think that recognizing that a boy who feels like a girl is still a boy is discrimination.

I would think that it's a tough situation for the gender confused kid, but, stand by my contention that the other students shouldn't be required to accept having to share intimate facilities like a shower/locker room with the gender confused kid of the opposite biological gender.

 
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G

Guest

Guest
Here's some information on the Charlotte ordinance in question.

http://charlotteequality.strikingly.com/

It added sex, gender identity, gender expression, sexual orientation, marital or family status to the non-discrimination ordinance.

I can certainly see why the state would want to protect the rights of bigots to discriminate against those groups. They're different than me.
I think that's where the feds will go as well. The State and the Faux news operatives are yelling "Dude in the girls bathroom! Oh My!" but the courts will take a long look at taking away groups of peoples access to the courts.
For me - THIS issue is absolutely worth fighting over, an I would contend that the LGBT community is correct in doing so. I don't agree that keeping gender confused boys out of the girl's locker room = discrimination, and really think that the two things ought to be considered separately.
I really do think the bathroom thing can be handled in a one-off.

But the state decided to go much, much further than the bathrooms.
I would agree that it *should* be able to be handled as a one off.

Read the article I posted a few up - the problem was that parents of a gender confused kid weren't satisfied with the local solution, and wanted to force their son who identifies as a daughter's acceptance in ALL the girl's facilities at school. It is specifically this expectancy of special dispensation on the part of every other kid and parent in the school that I think is wrong.

NC was wrong to prevent civil redress in courts.
Agree with all.

 
G

Guest

Guest
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.
I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
92,160
10,113
Earth
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.
I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.
I would speculate that parents have had that concern for quite some time. This is not a new phenomenon that came about after 1/20/09 when some evil scientist went to work in a lab to cook up something that creation couldn't possibly fathom. Likewise it isn't some fad that kids decided to put themselves through because they wanted to be up on the latest trends. It's been going on for a good long while now. How many times has that scenario happened?

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
59,911
4,607
De Nile
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.
I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.
regarding the situation, it's so far outside the realm of possibility I won't bother. Right up there with planning for the zombie apocalypse. Or how I will spend my Lotto millions.

the mouth breathers are bitching loudly about that once in 300million situation as they know if what was really happening was removal of court access, Joe Blow would think a bit differently about the pottie rule.

 

Saorsa

Super Anarchist
36,778
422
There was a thread here a few months ago where a transgendered student was insisting on showering in the girls shower, not in a private one. Does anyone know what happened there? I think if both sides were reasonable, that something like what learning_j24 described would be fine, but I think there are activists on both sides which want to make this an issue. Culturally, we are not at a point where it is no big deal to have adult anatomical males showering with pubescent girls, or even adult females unless there is some consensual relationship (obviously, but added for the trolls). We should have enough common sense left to at least acknowledge that. I don't know what the answer is, but if activists on both sides are going to continue pushing their agenda, then we are going to be forced to deal with it, and that is what we are seeing now. Frankly, I don't see it as being bigoted to do as learning_j24 described, yet according to many activists that is a violation of a transgendered person's civil rights. Whether it is 1% of the population or .000005% of the population, there are activists on both sides who are going to insist that we have this discussion.
There was also a case where a TG student was offered the use of the toilet in the nurses room which was private and did have a shower. Not good enough, the special ONE had to force every other girl in the school to adjust or they felt that they were unusual. Duh, they were unusual.

 

Not My Real Name

Not Actually Me
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Jeffy, Jeffy, Jeffy, Jeffy, Jeff.

Your post are inane as someone else's.

Put your fear aside and understand this first concept, there is a huge difference between gender and sexuality.
I am well aware of the difference. But what you wake up one day and feel your gender is that day should in no way impact my privacy or my daughter's privacy to not shower in a shower room full of tranny dicks. If its important enough to feel the need to shower in the women's locker room, go have your cock removed. Simple as that.

And here yiu show your ignorance.

Trans isn't some impulse you decide on for the day like adoing a splash of color to your outfit with your scarf.

 

slatfatf

Super Anarchist
8,679
1,049
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.

I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.
regarding the situation, it's so far outside the realm of possibility I won't bother. Right up there with planning for the zombie apocalypse. Or how I will spend my Lotto millions.

the mouth breathers are bitching loudly about that once in 300million situation as they know if what was really happening was removal of court access, Joe Blow would think a bit differently about the pottie rule.

I suspect that while it may not have been an issue in the past, that activists on both sides will make sure that it is one now and in the future. I am sure that it seemed silly to speculate that people would utilize open carry laws to walk around walmarts with an AR15, but once it become politicized, there were plenty of people who wanted attention and wanted to make a point who did just that. I have still never seen a guy walking around walmart with an AR15, but it clearly happens, just check youtube.

 

Not My Real Name

Not Actually Me
42,900
2,741
I didn't see in the Bill of Rights the right to shower only with your own sex. Did they miss that?
I also don't see in the bill of rights to right to shower with members of the opposite sex if it makes them uncomfortable.

I actually look forward to the day if this kind of shit becomes the norm, i.e. the liberals force this shit on the schools - that the HS football jocks all decide to go shower in the girls locker room with the cheerleaders because they woke up that morning and felt their identity for that day was female. But then of course on Friday they decided to be make for the big football game. Hey if gender identity is that fluid and we have to accommodate everything, I say fucking go for it boys!
Its not that fluid, and you're coming across like a bigoted ignoramus in this discussion.

There is a reason the suicide rate among transsexuals is so high. And it's NOT because the can't make up their mind what gender they are. They know.

Quit pretending this is an issue of straight boys pretending to be girls or about sexuality or sex url orientation.

A trans-woman; a genetic male who gender identifies as female, is no more risk to a girl in the bathroom as a lesbian.

This is a non issue; trans people (quit using 'tranny' too, it's the wrong word. A transvestite is NOT a transsexual) have been using the bathrooms the ID with for years.

It's only recently that bigots lost the gay marriage battle and religious nutters that list the abortion battle (but are winning it back slowly via unconstitutional legislative subversion) deciDed to make another wedge issue to get the haters out to vote.

Don't fall for their bullshit.

 

Saorsa

Super Anarchist
36,778
422
I didn't see in the Bill of Rights the right to shower only with your own sex. Did they miss that?
I also don't see in the bill of rights to right to shower with members of the opposite sex if it makes them uncomfortable.

I actually look forward to the day if this kind of shit becomes the norm, i.e. the liberals force this shit on the schools - that the HS football jocks all decide to go shower in the girls locker room with the cheerleaders because they woke up that morning and felt their identity for that day was female. But then of course on Friday they decided to be make for the big football game. Hey if gender identity is that fluid and we have to accommodate everything, I say fucking go for it boys!
Its not that fluid, and you're coming across like a bigoted ignoramus in this discussion.

There is a reason the suicide rate among transsexuals is so high. And it's NOT because the can't make up their mind what gender they are. They know.

Quit pretending this is an issue of straight boys pretending to be girls or about sexuality or sex url orientation.

A trans-woman; a genetic male who gender identifies as female, is no more risk to a girl in the bathroom as a lesbian.

This is a non issue; trans people (quit using 'tranny' too, it's the wrong word. A transvestite is NOT a transsexual) have been using the bathrooms the ID with for years.

It's only recently that bigots lost the gay marriage battle and religious nutters that list the abortion battle (but are winning it back slowly via unconstitutional legislative subversion) deciDed to make another wedge issue to get the haters out to vote.

Don't fall for their bullshit.
Who created the wedge issue?

It's the LGBT community demanding laws which don't really appear to be necessary.

 

Mckarma

Super Anarchist
1,168
2
South Carolina
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.
I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.
I would speculate that parents have had that concern for quite some time. This is not a new phenomenon that came about after 1/20/09 when some evil scientist went to work in a lab to cook up something that creation couldn't possibly fathom. Likewise it isn't some fad that kids decided to put themselves through because they wanted to be up on the latest trends. It's been going on for a good long while now. How many times has that scenario happened?
Great diversion. Do you not want to answer the question?

 

Mckarma

Super Anarchist
1,168
2
South Carolina
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.
I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.
regarding the situation, it's so far outside the realm of possibility I won't bother. Right up there with planning for the zombie apocalypse. Or how I will spend my Lotto millions.
the mouth breathers are bitching loudly about that once in 300million situation as they know if what was really happening was removal of court access, Joe Blow would think a bit differently about the pottie rule.
More diversion. ATFQ.

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
92,160
10,113
Earth
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.
I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.
I would speculate that parents have had that concern for quite some time. This is not a new phenomenon that came about after 1/20/09 when some evil scientist went to work in a lab to cook up something that creation couldn't possibly fathom. Likewise it isn't some fad that kids decided to put themselves through because they wanted to be up on the latest trends. It's been going on for a good long while now. How many times has that scenario happened?
Great diversion. Do you not want to answer the question?
Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. Switch socks and come back again bitch.

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
92,160
10,113
Earth
I didn't see in the Bill of Rights the right to shower only with your own sex. Did they miss that?
I also don't see in the bill of rights to right to shower with members of the opposite sex if it makes them uncomfortable.

I actually look forward to the day if this kind of shit becomes the norm, i.e. the liberals force this shit on the schools - that the HS football jocks all decide to go shower in the girls locker room with the cheerleaders because they woke up that morning and felt their identity for that day was female. But then of course on Friday they decided to be make for the big football game. Hey if gender identity is that fluid and we have to accommodate everything, I say fucking go for it boys!
Its not that fluid, and you're coming across like a bigoted ignoramus in this discussion.

There is a reason the suicide rate among transsexuals is so high. And it's NOT because the can't make up their mind what gender they are. They know.

Quit pretending this is an issue of straight boys pretending to be girls or about sexuality or sex url orientation.

A trans-woman; a genetic male who gender identifies as female, is no more risk to a girl in the bathroom as a lesbian.

This is a non issue; trans people (quit using 'tranny' too, it's the wrong word. A transvestite is NOT a transsexual) have been using the bathrooms the ID with for years.

It's only recently that bigots lost the gay marriage battle and religious nutters that list the abortion battle (but are winning it back slowly via unconstitutional legislative subversion) deciDed to make another wedge issue to get the haters out to vote.

Don't fall for their bullshit.
It's the NY bully thing. The weaker group must be picked on.

 

Mckarma

Super Anarchist
1,168
2
South Carolina
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

OK

Serious question.
I would fucking be out of my mind if that happened to my daughter. We happen to have Puritan views in the US that have evolved considerably and we can't control those sexual biases at this time. I could raise my daughter with wide open frame of mind and she would still be influenced by her peers to reject the notion of it being OK. Until we progress to the point that we all have an asexual point of view, we're going to have problems addressing these situations. In my mind (ymmv), progressives want equality to the point we shouldn't celebrate our differences, but accept that there are none. This, to me, is the crux of the problem. I, personally, celebrate the difference between man and woman. I think at some point in the future, progression will take us to the point that the act of reproduction will be considered unacceptable to the general society. That would suck.

 

Mckarma

Super Anarchist
1,168
2
South Carolina
Bathrooms and showers are not about "association". Its about taking a shit or a shower with some modicum of privacy and dignity for some. As I said, I don't care. But I think some parents of some young children would care if it was their kid that had to be subjected to it.

Ed, tell you what - stop being your usual argumentative douchefuck self for a minute and answer me this question: at my sailing club we have two shower facilities - male and female. It gets HOT AS FUCK here when out on the water and not showering is really not an option after sailing. We have a very active youth sailing program here and even very young opti kids are using the shower rooms at the same time as the adults. The showers themselves are enclosed and private, but the changing room is not. So there are adults and kids showering and changing at the same time most weekends. How would YOU as a parent of say a 5 year old daughter or even a 13 yr old teen daughter feel about her changing and being naked right next to some adult dude who thinks he's a chick with his dick swinging in your daughter's face as he's drying his ballsack in front of her? That cool with you?

Serious question.
I've noticed that neither specious ed nor anyone else has bothered to answer what should be done in my very real scenario above.
I would speculate that parents have had that concern for quite some time. This is not a new phenomenon that came about after 1/20/09 when some evil scientist went to work in a lab to cook up something that creation couldn't possibly fathom. Likewise it isn't some fad that kids decided to put themselves through because they wanted to be up on the latest trends. It's been going on for a good long while now. How many times has that scenario happened?
Great diversion. Do you not want to answer the question?
Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean the question wasn't answered. Switch socks and come back again bitch.
Where do you answer the question?

I'm not a sock, nor do I have any socks but those which I wear on my feat.

Bitch? Whatever. I won't stoop to a sixteen year old mentality.

 
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