The serious transgender bathroom issue discussion

[poopie pants]

 

[Saorsa]

That is not what the change to the fed guidelines implies. I posted a link to the story on my local school district. They already handle it by providing a private shower, their reading of the fed guidelines is that what they are doing now is not sufficient. I agree that local control would be better, that is not what we have after the change to the fed guidelines.

Yep. FEDs say boys must be allowed in the girls locker room. Feds say boys must be considered girls when / if a boy says so.

Or lose Federal funding. And guess what fed funding to local schools is.mostly made up of?

School lunch programs. Obama is saying that if you don't allow a trans in the locker room, the poor kids are going to go hungry,

Progressives tripping over their own dicks, yet again.

Michelle says NO PUSSY tonight.

 

[Regatta Dog]

That is not what the change to the fed guidelines implies. I posted a link to the story on my local school district. They already handle it by providing a private shower, their reading of the fed guidelines is that what they are doing now is not sufficient. I agree that local control would be better, that is not what we have after the change to the fed guidelines.

Yep. FEDs say boys must be allowed in the girls locker room. Feds say boys must be considered girls when / if a boy says so.

Or lose Federal funding. And guess what fed funding to local schools is.mostly made up of?

School lunch programs. Obama is saying that if you don't allow a trans in the locker room, the poor kids are going to go hungry,

Progressives tripping over their own dicks, yet again.

Michelle says NO PUSSY tonight.

What's the added sugar content? New labels based on bull shit that will cost us hundreds of millions.

I would vote for a house plant for President if said plant would veto everything and put a stop new regulations.

I have no tolerance, whatever, for legislators who campaign on the concept that their job is to legislate. No. It isn't.

Your job is to keep your ass off my back.

 

[Guest]

I'll wait for a real case before I get outraged.. Tranny!

Dude, I do not have a problem with transexuals. I don't know how to make that any clearer, but I can not see how it is far fetched to believe that there will be a percentage of straight kids who will feel uncomfortable in common shower and changing areas with people who have the genitals of the opposite sex. It doesn't even take a large percentage who feel that way to make the nurses office entirely impractical. And sure, we could just go with the "do it and see what happens" approach, but the engineer in me thinks "build first / think later" is generally a bad idea.

transgender.
anyway, we could try to engineer our laws for every single human interaction, but I thought local control was better?

The feds said "Don't discriminate" - the locals can figure out how to make that happen.

The FEDs took the easy way out. They didn't want to make a decision. The only real option left is to make changing for PE optional. Thanks fucked-in-the-head trans people. You've endeared yourselves to all.

Admit it, there is nothing the "trans people" could do to endear themselves to you.

Fucked in the head. What an asshole you are.

I can't speak for rock dog, but the whole point of me starting this thread was to point out that the trans community is stepping on their figurative dicks. I have absolutely nothing against them and agree that we shouldn't discriminate against them and provide reasonable accommodations for them. What I have a YUUUGE problem with in this issue is that:

1) I do not think that the trans community is being honest about this issue and is using cases like Charlotte to push their agenda down our throats. I believe they were hoping like hell the NC legislature would over-react. I think it will backfire on them. Before this, no one even gave trans people a second glance. Not with gay marriage being settled and all and this culture war pretty much dead, most schools and gov't buildings even in the reddest of states were quietly going about their way to accommodate trans folks without any muss or fuss. What put it over the line was when CLT forced the issue and said that anyone could use whatever restroom they felt like and the only criteria was how they felt. They were solving a problem that didn't exist, since no one was barring anyone in Charlotte from using a bathroom of their choice to begin with. It was a calculated political move from the start and they got the reaction from the NC house they were hoping for. And then Obama jumped in in his usual style and went full retard with the nuclear option. He pretty much guaranteed the backlash would happen now. Expect a flurry of suits and counter-suits over this from both sides. Like we don't have enough fucking real problems in our country to deal with already. Now we have chicks with dicks as the greatest pressing social issue of our time :angry:

2) I'm not outraged in the slightest that a tranny wants to use the restroom or the shower of their choice. If they are in a place where no one objects, then have a nut (pun intended). What I am outraged over is that the notion that there might be some straight people who will be uncomfortable in their presence and wish not to have to be naked in a shower or changing room with a member of the opposite biological sex, regardless of what they self-ID as, have no corresponding rights. We are being told here in this thread by razr, Sol, and others that they just have to deal with it or go somewhere else. But if we tell the tranny to "deal with it or go somewhere else", its breaking the fucking law. If 2 or 3 girls in a shower/locker room say they are uncomfortable changing with a penis in the room - they are expected to find somewhere else to go change. But if the trans says they don't want to go somewhere private because they don't want to shower/change in the boys locker room, we are being discriminatory. What???? Tell me how that works again?

I am not outraged over the trans people themselves. I could not give two shits about them one way or the other. But the reason I am digging my heels in on this is the notion that we must accommodate the tiny minority of confused, abnormal people and give them total access to places that were once deemed intentionally and desirably segregated but to do that - we will discriminate against the minority who can either STFU and accept it or go somewhere else or have no access to facilities that were designed for them in the first place. Why are the (vast) majority straight girls and guys rights being suppressed strictly to accommodate an tiny fraction of abnormal people attempting to assert their rights?

In the current tactics being pushed by the trans - its a lose lose for everyone, IMHO. Trans people, rather than gaining acceptance like the gays have, are going to do nothing but create resentment, anger and pushback. As people on both sides of this have said - it was a non-issue before and localities were dealing with it just fine. But Charlotte pulled the pin on the grenade and rolled it into the room. Nice job trannies...... you just blew your own shit up!

TRANNY!

 

[tuk tuk Joe]

Seems they are so popular with the lesbian crowd either.

 

[Gouvernail]

Trans girls are not transsexuals. I can't keep up with all the terms either but you are using the terms inaccurately

:::::::;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;?;;::;:;:;:;:;:;:;:;:;;;:;;;:

The ONLY reason I am responding once more is this notion of yours that someone will be offended by the presence of the trans girl in a girls' shower.

Or

Offended by the presence of a trans boy in the boys' shower.

( I will only address the trans girl issue as no one seems to be complaining on behalf of hypothetical young boys who don't want to see a naked vagina or even some boobs. )

I think schools go on all day five days a week. I think the kids pretty much all know one another pretty well.

I think the kids (from their point of view) on your gym class or on your sports team are kids you see many many times a year and probably knew last year and the year before that

I think the trans girl is so unique EVERY kid in the school is aware of that " boy who dresses and lives as a girl."

I think there is some teasing, some hatred, some toleration, some avoidance, some regular friends, and some love.

Everybody knows gym class has showers and everybody has considered what it will mean.

Some of the kids plan to make an issue of being supportive.

Some kids plan to make an issue of not noticing

Some kids plan to not look

Some kids plan to stare

Some kids plan to hide their bodies from ALL the other kids

Some kids plan to show off their nakedness

Some kids plan to hide from the girls who have breasts

Some kids plan to hide their breasts

Some kids don't have breasts yet and are embarrassed

Some kids have no plans

Some kids plan to avoid interaction.

What I absolutely do not believe is that ANY of the kids will be frightened by the trans girl.

I think the prevailing reaction will be "he really isn't a boy."

I think the discomfort about the trans girl's presence is no different in quantity than the discomfort about breast size, amount of pubic hair, number of zits, twisted spine, deformed body parts, birthmarks, extreme skinniness, obesity, or whatever else differs. L

Summary:

I don't think the "girl who is bothered by the presence of the human with a penis despite the fact she knows that human thinks he is a girl" is someone who really exists.

Also, when that first kid who complains about the discomfirt steps up and asks for relief, I will be right there searching for a solution

 

[Guest]

I think the terms transgender and transsexual are somewhat interchangeable, despite the what LGBT community says otherwise. Here are the common, accepted definitions:

Transexual

transgender

Usage note


The term transgender has largely replaced the older term transsexual,which is now considered outdated. Transgender is a less clinical term,referring more to gender identity and gender expression than to sexualorientation or physical sex characteristics. It is also a more general andinclusive term: a transgender person may be gay, transsexual,transvestite, or even genderqueer. Some transgender people object to theadjectival variant transgendered, because the –ed suffix could imply thatsomething “happened” to make the person transgender. The adjective ismore common than the noun; in fact, some people reject the use oftransgender as a noun.

Its interesting that a website that is very pro-LGBT starts off by saying that the two terms are not the same, but then at the end of the article refer to everyone as transexual. I also find it interesting that this link below says that transgender people are normal, but that the transexual state arises from a neurological disorder. A bit of inter-tranny war going on?

http://campus.ie/surviving-college/personal/do-you-know-difference-between-transexual-transgender-and-transvestite

As for the term tranny, I am using it correctly when referring to both transgenders and transsexuals.

Bottom Line: Regardless whether it is a transgender or transexual, there is a dick in the girls locker room and some girls might not want it there. DO they not have the right to privacy and comfort also?

 

[Guest]

Also, when that first kid who complains about the discomfirt steps up and asks for relief, I will be right there searching for a solution

Well, better start searching - because its already happened.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/04/50-families-sue-over-illinois-high-schools-transgender-bathroom-policy/

The school had granted Student A some accommodations, including changing the student’s name on official records, allowing the student on the girls sports teams, and granting the student access to the girls’ bathrooms. But District 211 drew the line at providing Student A unrestrained access to the girls’ locker rooms because of the privacy concerns of other girls using them. Instead, the school offered a private facility to Student A.

Now what, Gov? Are you and rzr and Sol going to continue saying this will never happen? Hate to say I told you so but I told you so.....

 

[Bent Sailor]

Bottom Line: Regardless whether it is a transgender or transexual, there is a dick in the girls locker room and some girls might not want it there. DO they not have the right to privacy and comfort also?

Ignoring the waffle about language, the right to privacy isn't gender specific and there never was a "right to comfort".

 

[Guest]

The other side of the story.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/21/why-these-high-school-girls-dont-want-transgender-student-a-in-their-locker-room/

“Although we will never fully understand your personal struggle,” they said, addressing the transgender student, “please understand that we, too, all are experiencing personal struggles that need to be respected.”

“What bothers me is the fact that this student is still anatomically a male,” a 16-year-old sophomore told The Daily Signal on the condition of anonymity. “If the student had already undergone surgical procedures, this would be another story entirely, but as it stands I just don’t feel comfortable with it.”

“I know Student A poses no harm to me, but it just doesn’t feel right knowing someone with male anatomy is in the bathroom with me,” she said, adding:

I have nothing against Student A and would be her friend if I knew her better, but when it comes down to it, I don’t feel right changing in the same room as a transgender student. The locker room is already filled with so much judgment, and I barely feel OK changing in front of my naturally born girl peers.
A third student, a 16-year-old sophomore, expressed frustration.

“[W]e are supposed to accept this and feel like nothing really is happening, but the fact of the matter is that this did get pretty big and now we have someone with male genitals in our girls’ locker room when we are changing,” she said.

What of their rights? What is their accommodation?

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Also, when that first kid who complains about the discomfirt steps up and asks for relief, I will be right there searching for a solution

Well, better start searching - because its already happened.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/04/50-families-sue-over-illinois-high-schools-transgender-bathroom-policy/

The school had granted Student A some accommodations, including changing the students name on official records, allowing the student on the girls sports teams, and granting the student access to the girls bathrooms. But District 211 drew the line at providing Student A unrestrained access to the girls locker rooms because of the privacy concerns of other girls using them. Instead, the school offered a private facility to Student A.

Now what, Gov? Are you and rzr and Sol going to continue saying this will never happen? Hate to say I told you so but I told you so.....

Please show a post where I say it will never happen.

 

[Guest]

Also, when that first kid who complains about the discomfirt steps up and asks for relief, I will be right there searching for a solution

Well, better start searching - because its already happened.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/04/50-families-sue-over-illinois-high-schools-transgender-bathroom-policy/

The school had granted Student A some accommodations, including changing the students name on official records, allowing the student on the girls sports teams, and granting the student access to the girls bathrooms. But District 211 drew the line at providing Student A unrestrained access to the girls locker rooms because of the privacy concerns of other girls using them. Instead, the school offered a private facility to Student A.

Now what, Gov? Are you and rzr and Sol going to continue saying this will never happen? Hate to say I told you so but I told you so.....

Please show a post where I say it will never happen.

I'm not going to waste time searching through 800 posts, so I'll concede you never said that. But your guys' position has consistently been: "not a big and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it". Well, the bridge is here. Now what?

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

I have asked how many times it (dangly girl peepees in girls' faces) happened (before we put the idea out there).

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Question for the distinguished panel:

What would you think/do if you saw a kinda burly dude with facial hair go into the womens bathroom?

That's what it would look like if my brother in law used the bathroom that matches his body's plumbing.

OK, the distinguished panel had nothing to say in hundreds of posts so I'm going to open that one up to morons and gossips.

 

[Saorsa]

I have asked how many times it (dangly girl peepees in girls' faces) happened (before we put the idea out there).

South Fort Myers.

 

[Gouvernail]

The district drew the line does not tell me the other girls complained

Did I miss something?

 

[Guest]

The district drew the line does not tell me the other girls complained

Did I miss something?

Yes, post 802. Did you bother to read the link and quotes I posted there???

 

[Gouvernail]

The other side of the story.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/21/why-these-high-school-girls-dont-want-transgender-student-a-in-their-locker-room/

Although we will never fully understand your personal struggle, they said, addressing the transgender student, please understand that we, too, all are experiencing personal struggles that need to be respected.

What bothers me is the fact that this student is still anatomically a male, a 16-year-old sophomore told The Daily Signal on the condition of anonymity. If the student had already undergone surgical procedures, this would be another story entirely, but as it stands I just dont feel comfortable with it.

I know Student A poses no harm to me, but it just doesnt feel right knowing someone with male anatomy is in the bathroom with me, she said, adding:

I have nothing against Student A and would be her friend if I knew her better, but when it comes down to it, I dont feel right changing in the same room as a transgender student. The locker room is already filled with so much judgment, and I barely feel OK changing in front of my naturally born girl peers.

A third student, a 16-year-old sophomore, expressed frustration.

[W]e are supposed to accept this and feel like nothing really is happening, but the fact of the matter is that this did get pretty big and now we have someone with male genitals in our girls locker room when we are changing, she said.

What of their rights? What is their accommodation?

What do they want? That would be a great place to begin the discussion

 

[Spatial Ed]

The district drew the line does not tell me the other girls complained

Did I miss something?

Yes, post 802. Did you bother to read the link and quotes I posted there???

You never responded to my question of whether it's ok to dangle your John Thomas in a boys face,

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/5/11592908/transgender-bathroom-laws-rights