The serious transgender bathroom issue discussion

Dog

Super Anarchist
37,940
442
I accept the right of the soul to believe what they wish.
But you don't believe their perception is their reality. The trans person is not what they perceive themselves to be either.
Their perception is their reality. The fact is you don't agree with them, so they must be discriminated against.
No, it's not. They have gender dysphoria, they are not what they perceive themselves to be. Just like the anorexic is not fat. They deserve to be treated with compassion but pretending their perception is reality and requiring everyone to play along is stupid and benefits no one.. Sorry to play the reality card on you.

 
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Raz'r

Super Anarchist
62,242
5,467
De Nile
I accept the right of the soul to believe what they wish.
But you don't believe their perception is their reality. The trans person is not what they perceive themselves to be either.
Their perception is their reality. The fact is you don't agree with them, so they must be discriminated against.
No, it's not. They have gender dysphoria, they are not what they perceive themselves to be. Just like the anorexic is not fat. They deserve to be treated with compassion but pretending their perception is reality and requiring everyone to play along is stupid and benefits no one.. Sorry to play the reality card on you.
Living in your reality must be hard. Straight edges, pointy corners, no shades of grey. I feel compassion for you and your elk. Sad really.

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
94,208
11,737
Earth
Just pray away the gay (and don't let them take away our rights by being able to get married too!)

 
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Dog

Super Anarchist
37,940
442
I accept the right of the soul to believe what they wish.
But you don't believe their perception is their reality. The trans person is not what they perceive themselves to be either.
Their perception is their reality. The fact is you don't agree with them, so they must be discriminated against.
No, it's not. They have gender dysphoria, they are not what they perceive themselves to be. Just like the anorexic is not fat. They deserve to be treated with compassion but pretending their perception is reality and requiring everyone to play along is stupid and benefits no one.. Sorry to play the reality card on you.
Living in your reality must be hard. Straight edges, pointy corners, no shades of grey. I feel compassion for you and your elk. Sad really.
It can be hard but I prefer it to fantasy, someone has to defend reality.

 

Spatial Ed

Super Anarchist
39,509
96
I accept the right of the soul to believe what they wish.
But you don't believe their perception is their reality. The trans person is not what they perceive themselves to be either.
Their perception is their reality. The fact is you don't agree with them, so they must be discriminated against.
No, it's not. They have gender dysphoria, they are not what they perceive themselves to be. Just like the anorexic is not fat. They deserve to be treated with compassion but pretending their perception is reality and requiring everyone to play along is stupid and benefits no one.. Sorry to play the reality card on you.
We all live in our own perception of reality. Because someone doesn't align with your reality, doesn't make them lesser. The compassionate thing would be to allow them to maintain their own reality. That means going to the bathroom that they are comfortable in. That's compassionate.

 

Dog

Super Anarchist
37,940
442
I accept the right of the soul to believe what they wish.
But you don't believe their perception is their reality. The trans person is not what they perceive themselves to be either.
Their perception is their reality. The fact is you don't agree with them, so they must be discriminated against.
No, it's not. They have gender dysphoria, they are not what they perceive themselves to be. Just like the anorexic is not fat. They deserve to be treated with compassion but pretending their perception is reality and requiring everyone to play along is stupid and benefits no one.. Sorry to play the reality card on you.
We all live in our own perception of reality. Because someone doesn't align with your reality, doesn't make them lesser. The compassionate thing would be to allow them to maintain their own reality. That means going to the bathroom that they are comfortable in. That's compassionate.
Don't put words in my mouth bigot, I did not say they were lesser. Their perception of themselves does not agree with their reality. You can go ahead and pretend it does, I'm not.

 

Bent Sailor

Super Anarchist
14,395
404
Lake Macquarie
Why, does the LGBT community enjoy special rights?
They don't. As JBSF pointed out, everyone has the same rights to use the bathroom they see fit to. Wasn't an issue until the Republicans saw fit to deny it to the LGBT.
Unintended consequences suck. Might have been better all round for the Republicans to stop being the party of nanny government for that one.
[SIZE=11pt]Dude...This incident followed a change in the law in Seattle allowing individuals to use bathrooms based on gender identity. You can hardly pin it on Republicans.[/SIZE]
As JBSF pointed out, the ability to wander on into any bathroom existed before the law that specifically said people could based on gender identity. The man didn't identify as female, he either broke the law (not the LGBT's fault) or there was no prohibition stopping him from entering in the first place (not the LGBT's fault). I never blamed the Republicans for that man's actions, but it isn't the fault of the LGBT.

I can blame the Republicans for making bathroom use international news. They turned a local city ordinance into a political rallying cry across your country. No amount of finger-pointing at "the queers" is going to change that.

 

Spatial Ed

Super Anarchist
39,509
96
We all live in our own perception of reality. Because someone doesn't align with your reality, doesn't make them lesser. The compassionate thing would be to allow them to maintain their own reality. That means going to the bathroom that they are comfortable in. That's compassionate.
Don't put words in my mouth bigot, I did not say they were lesser. Their perception of themselves does not agree with their reality. You can go ahead and pretend it does, I'm not.
Their perception of themselves DEFINES their reality. Why can't you understand that?

 

Bent Sailor

Super Anarchist
14,395
404
Lake Macquarie
The agenda IMHO, is to force social acceptance of what I think is considered by many to be deviant behavior, and to force that acceptance thru legislation. (ie. expansion of protected classes to include behaviors, hate speech laws, etc).

Do what you want - that doesn't mean that anyone else should have to pretend to like or abide by that behavior.
No-one is saying you have to like or abide by social expectations you disagree with. Same applies to the transgender folks. The argument was, before some people did their research, whether or not LGBT people should be able to get "special rights" over & above the rest of the straight folk. Thing is, they didn't get special rights - despite building codes requiring separate bathrooms for the two genders since 1887 - there was no laws requiring someone of a given chromosomal makeup to use one or the other.

That's the thing that's screwing up the "leave my rights alone" argument people have been trying to wedge onto this. Prior to the Republicans legislating against the LGBT, everyone was allowed to use whichever public bathrooms & change rooms they liked. Everyone had the same rights. Now they don't because the nanny government Christian morality police decided to make a big issue of this and legislate against an action that wasn't a big deal... until they needed it to be.

 

Bent Sailor

Super Anarchist
14,395
404
Lake Macquarie
Truth is unless there is someone saying the government cannot require people to do something they've done for decades (meaning people agree with it) the Gov can REQUIRE it.
Bzzt. Wrong. Otherwise the bans on same sex marriage would have been "legal" right up until SCOTUS handed down their decision. That's not how it works. SCOTUS determined that the bans were illegal and were always illegal because they contravened the US Constitution. Same applied to segregation, miscegenation, etc. Same principle applies here.

If the government requires something, even for a hundred years, and it turns out to be unconstitutional - the government was never allowed to require it in the first place, they did so unconstitutionally.

I agree the only way around it will be either the government can't require minor to undress in the company of a member of the opposite sex or the government can't require a minor child to undress in front of anyone at all. Due to obvious financial, facility, and time constraints the 'provide private' changing areas for all' won't work for a lot of schools and will result in an end of girls PE.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't think the government has the right at this very moment to require any minor to strip down in front of another minor, regardless of gender. That they are doing so is, I believe, an inarguable violation of the minor's privacy which even Scalia's opinion about diminished privacy in the locker room acknowledged (that students still have "a significant privacy interest in their unclothed bodies").

If your government is requiring children to get naked in front of one another - it is, in my opinion, breaking the law. I'm willing to bet good money, should this issue make it to SCOTUS, that the majority of the bench agrees with me.

The 'provide private changing facilities' solution is a great 'on paper' solution but is not reasonable in a lot of situations.
That must suck, but that is the problem of the government having required something they were not allowed to do in the first place. I have about as much sympathy for government breaking the law and then having to find money to fix their fuck-ups as they do us anyone that makes a mistake on their taxes and must pay to fix that fuck-up.

But see, that's where you fail. They weren't demanding "special"rights. They were demanding "equal"rights. Why doesn't a man have "equal" rights to shower with the wimin?
Did you not point out that in the majority of the country, that is indeed the case? That there is no law on the book preventing men from using the women's bathrooms & change rooms?

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
62,242
5,467
De Nile
We all live in our own perception of reality. Because someone doesn't align with your reality, doesn't make them lesser. The compassionate thing would be to allow them to maintain their own reality. That means going to the bathroom that they are comfortable in. That's compassionate.
Don't put words in my mouth bigot, I did not say they were lesser. Their perception of themselves does not agree with their reality. You can go ahead and pretend it does, I'm not.
Their perception of themselves DEFINES their reality. Why can't you understand that?
the box he lives in won't let him.

 

Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
37,997
5,539
Austin Texas
last I knew Jesus told us God is the singular most powerful entity in the universe.

Why would God make a child THINK the male body is housing her mind if God didn't want the woman inside that body to live as a trans girl??

 

Dog

Super Anarchist
37,940
442
We all live in our own perception of reality. Because someone doesn't align with your reality, doesn't make them lesser. The compassionate thing would be to allow them to maintain their own reality. That means going to the bathroom that they are comfortable in. That's compassionate.
Don't put words in my mouth bigot, I did not say they were lesser. Their perception of themselves does not agree with their reality. You can go ahead and pretend it does, I'm not.
Their perception of themselves DEFINES their reality. Why can't you understand that?
the box he lives in won't let him.
When the transperson's perception of themselves does not match their reality they are suffering from a disorder called gender dysphoria. When perception doesn't match reality you guys seem to think it is reality that has it wrong. I'm just not going to participate in their dysphoria but you guys can go ahead. Reality is not wrong.

 
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Raz'r

Super Anarchist
62,242
5,467
De Nile
We all live in our own perception of reality. Because someone doesn't align with your reality, doesn't make them lesser. The compassionate thing would be to allow them to maintain their own reality. That means going to the bathroom that they are comfortable in. That's compassionate.
Don't put words in my mouth bigot, I did not say they were lesser. Their perception of themselves does not agree with their reality. You can go ahead and pretend it does, I'm not.
Their perception of themselves DEFINES their reality. Why can't you understand that?
the box he lives in won't let him.
When the transperson's perception of themselves does not match their reality they are suffering from a disorder called gender dysphoria. When perception doesn't match reality you guys seem to think it is reality that has it wrong. Reality is not wrong guys.
You think that is air you're breathing?

 

Spatial Ed

Super Anarchist
39,509
96
When the transperson's perception of themselves does not match their reality they are suffering from a disorder called gender dysphoria. When perception doesn't match reality you guys seem to think it is reality that has it wrong. I'm just not going to participate in their dysphoria but you guys can go ahead. Reality is not wrong.
When a man's perception is that he's handsome, it is his reality. Who are you to say he is not handsome and that his perception does not meet your reality?

 




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