The serious transgender bathroom issue discussion

Spatial Ed

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I am not a conservative either. I am pro-choice, pro-gay marriage (before Obama and Clinton), in favor of drug legalization, in favor of environmental protections, in favor of graduated income taxes, in favor of universal healthcare, and lastly in favor of honesty in discussions. It is probably the last one you had trouble with.
I think you are a single issue person. you like to dance around conservative ideals and hide behind hollow liberal claims when called on it. But when it comes to guns, you are full metal jacket behind the conservatives.

 

nannygovtsucks

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Man-in-Womans-Locerroom-YouTube-Screencap-640x432.png

Obama's legacy:

CkTqMKaXAAE8n2O.jpg


 

Spatial Ed

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I think we can plant a flag and declare victory on this. NGS is now posting really stupid shit.

Oh wait, if that was the metric, we could have done this from the beginning.

 

slatfatf

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Guns? This thread is about bathrooms, showers, and locker rooms. If there is something that ties those together with banning Ar15s, I sure as heck can't see it.

 

Spatial Ed

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Guns? This thread is about bathrooms, showers, and locker rooms. If there is something that ties those together with banning Ar15s, I sure as heck can't see it.
We drifted a bit into what makes me think of you as a conservative. You seem to claim a lot of liberal ideas, but you defend a lot conservative ones here. Like guns and bathroom gays. I never see you rally around a liberal cause. I think if you are truly liberal, you are a fair weather one.

 

slatfatf

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Oh, now i get it. On one issue, I am more in line with most Republicans than most Democrats, so that makes me a conservative. This is the problem with purity tests, it drives out everyone who does not 100% tow the party line. I have been very vocal about gay marriage, about abortion rights, about economic issues, about immigration, but you can't see past my support of gun rights.

 

Spatial Ed

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Oh, now i get it. On one issue, I am more in line with most Republicans than most Democrats, so that makes me a conservative. This is the problem with purity tests, it drives out everyone who does not 100% tow the party line. I have been very vocal about gay marriage, about abortion rights, about economic issues, about immigration, but you can't see past my support of gun rights.
Yeah, pretty much. Tell me, did you support the lesbians or the bakers? That is the new litmus test.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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Oh, now i get it. On one issue, I am more in line with most Republicans than most Democrats, so that makes me a conservative. This is the problem with purity tests, it drives out everyone who does not 100% tow the party line. I have been very vocal about gay marriage, about abortion rights, about economic issues, about immigration, but you can't see past my support of gun rights.
Sounds a bit like Religious tests. Still wrong.

I don't see Lenp as an occupy protester, but seems to be lib for his area on most things.

 

Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
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Austin Texas

tuk tuk Joe

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I support insisting that businesses do not discriminate against anyone based on race, religion, ethnicity, or sexual preferences. That would include the lesbians.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=163587&page=3#entry4839963
Fact is: Lesbians don't like men invading their space either.. DUH
So you don't like men invading your space??
OK, I'll admit that I am in fact a lesbian...

 
G

Guest

Guest
Jayzus LenP, specious ed is going full bore woofers on you. I can only imagine what he thinks my positions are, as I am also pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro environmental, pro single-payer. I'm sure he has severe cognitive dissonance when he's confronted with anyone who doesn't who doesn't comply with his neat stove pipes of who is what party.

The sad thing is I'm not even "anti-trans" using the girls room. I have said all along that its not as clear cut and dried as the other side thinks and there are unintended consequences and others rights that are not even being taken into account here. THAT is what I have an issue with regarding this entire subject. But doucheous ed comes from the "you're either wit us or agin us" school of thought.

Fuck. This issue requires a considered national conversation that balances everyone's rights, not just the trannies who feel uncomfortable using a reasonable accommodation that has been set aside for them. Not edicts from the oval office.

 

slatfatf

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Jayzus LenP, specious ed is going full bore woofers on you. I can only imagine what he thinks my positions are, as I am also pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro environmental, pro single-payer. I'm sure he has severe cognitive dissonance when he's confronted with anyone who doesn't who doesn't comply with his neat stove pipes of who is what party.

The sad thing is I'm not even "anti-trans" using the girls room. I have said all along that its not as clear cut and dried as the other side thinks and there are unintended consequences and others rights that are not even being taken into account here. THAT is what I have an issue with regarding this entire subject. But doucheous ed comes from the "you're either wit us or agin us" school of thought.

Fuck. This issue requires a considered national conversation that balances everyone's rights, not just the trannies who feel uncomfortable using a reasonable accommodation that has been set aside for them. Not edicts from the oval office.
He is WINNING!

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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The Shadow said:
And at the end of the day, so long as we think we are winning, well that is what PA is all about!

I have a question for the collective. If a lesbian sees herself as fulfilling the male role in their relationship(s), but does not identify as transgender, which bathroom should she use? Now how about a gay male, one who sees themselves or identifies as a bottom, should they be using the ladies room or mens room?

Now how about on official documents like say a driver's license, passport or tax return. If you have the genitals of male, but self-identify as a female, which box should be checked?
who cares?

or?

Why is this a concern of yours?

 

nannygovtsucks

Super Anarchist
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YCMTSU

ACLU LEADER QUITS AFTER DAUGHTERS ENCOUNTER MEN IN THE WOMEN’S RESTROOM

private-a-minute-with-maya-dilla_810_500_55_s_c1.jpg



Maya Dillard Smith, interim director of the Georgia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, has resigned over the ACLU’s position on who can use which public restrooms. The resignation occurred after her two daughters were traumatized by encountering men in the women’s restroom. Dillard Smith explained:



I have shared my personal experience of having taken my elementary school age daughters into a women’s restroom when shortly after three transgender young adults, over six feet [tall] with deep voices, entered. My children were visibly frightened, concerned about their safety and left asking lots of questions for which I, like many parents, was ill-prepared to answer.



Dillard Smith complained that the ACLU has become “a special interest organization that promotes not all, but certain progressive rights” and that the “hierarchy of rights” the ACLU chooses to defend or ignore is “based on who is funding the organization’s lobbying activities.” Further expressing her disillusionment, Dillard Smith stated:

I understood it to be the ACLU’s goal to delicately balance competing rights to ensure that any infringements are narrowly tailored, that they do not create a hierarchy of rights, and that we are mindful of unintended consequences. I believe there are solutions that can provide accommodations for transgender people and balance the need to ensure women and girls are safe from those who might have malicious intent.

Unfortunately, as she has learned, Dillard Smith’s view of the ACLU bears little relation to reality. The ACLU’s goal — like that of the LGBT movement — is to shove a radical agenda down the throats of the American people, not to balance rights and find reasonable accommodations.

A transgender activist — a biological male who goes by the name Cheryl Courtney-Evans — responded to Dillard Smith’s resignation by calling her “lazy,” “ill-educated,” and a “b–ch” who needs to sit down and “STFU.” No one who has seen LGBT activists in action will be surprised by this charming response.

Actually, Dillard Smith is well educated. She earned a degree in economics from Berkeley and a master’s degree at Harvard.

She’s also a liberal Democrat. And until she resigned, she was one of the youngest ACLU directors in the nation and one of only three African-Americans employed by the ACLU in that role.

These days, one hears intelligent people assert that the “culture war” is over. It isn’t, and won’t be soon, because the left will keep looking for new cultural battlegrounds. Today, public restrooms; tomorrow, the world.

Good for her.

In case you missed it. :rolleyes:

Liberals are always good on this stuff, until it affects them: Like windmills near their home or their beachfront property or travel on their jet or those gun rights, until someone invades their home.

None of you would want your daughter's lockeroom invaded by some dude with his johnson swinging walking in to watch your daughter undress or join her in the shower. NONE OF YOU. But you pretend otherwise, for what reason, no one knows.

 
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Bent Sailor

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The Shadow said:
I have a question for the collective. If a lesbian sees herself as fulfilling the male role in their relationship(s), but does not identify as transgender, which bathroom should she use? Now how about a gay male, one who sees themselves or identifies as a bottom, should they be using the ladies room or mens room?
What exactly is the "male role" in a lesbian relationship? How exactly does the sexual desires of a man or woman, gay or otherwise, determine their legal use of public toilets?

I don't see how any answers to the questions you posit have any bearing on the matter being discussed.

The Shadow said:
Now how about on official documents like say a driver's license, passport or tax return. If you have the genitals of male, but self-identify as a female, which box should be checked?
I would need to know the legal requirements for the state in question before stating what one "should" do. Some states are happy for ticking the female box, others require genitals to match. As the information on one's drivers license is used for identification purposes outside personal gender identity & comfort, the state may have reasonable grounds for ensuring that one's physical/biological plumbing is registered appropriately.

That, however, doesn't really alter the issue with public bathrooms and whether or not there are competing "rights" at play or simply competing "expectations" on the use of said public amenities. Using a public amenity doesn't require an identity check, so the "reasonable grounds" argument for the state forcing gender checks on the use of the facilities is, like one's right to privacy in a public amenity, greatly diminished. That's the problem with a Constitution that explicitly lists gender as something the government is to avoid making laws that specifically allow one gender to do something and the other to be prohibited from it. The argument that biological males can use male toilets and biological females can use female toilets, therefore no discrimination doesn't hold much water when you take into account the fact SCOTUS ripped that argument apart when it came to same sex marriage.

 




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