The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?

[TheDragon]

A booster should use a different vector than just the viral spike . like other vaccines.  This might provide broader immunity,but at a lower effigacy...  Like smallpox used the cowpox virus...   But this will take way longer to develop and approve.  Maybe the Johonson or the Sputnik that uses a Adeno virus ...even though they just put covid spikes inside that virus.  

I can't be bothered to look it up, but several of the available vaccines (maybe some from China and Russia?) indeed have more than just the spike protein, and somewhat surprisingly they are less effective than the mRNA shots expressing only the spike protein. There is something extra immune activating about these mRNA vaccines, a pleasant surprise and one that bodes well for future vaccine and perhaps some drug developments in the future.

 

[NeedAClew]

They have been working on mRNA techniques for a while for their benefits 

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 vaccines

https://molecular-cancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12943-021-01335-5

Cancer immunotherapy 

 

[EYESAILOR]

I can't be bothered to look it up, but several of the available vaccines (maybe some from China and Russia?) indeed have more than just the spike protein, and somewhat surprisingly they are less effective than the mRNA shots expressing only the spike protein. There is something extra immune activating about these mRNA vaccines, a pleasant surprise and one that bodes well for future vaccine and perhaps some drug developments in the future.

The mRNA is very precise replication of the spike protein.  Your body learns to recognize the spike and develop anti bodies that attack anything with that spike. Since the virus molecule has the spike, it will be attacked.

The variance from person to person will depend on strength of immune response to the vaccine.

The length of time that your body carries these antibodies is the question mark. If Pfizer has determined that the vaccine is fading after 6 months, then they will need to either boost the strength of the shots of have a further booster shot. With conventional vaccines, each booster shot should extend the life longer 

 

[Steam Flyer]

I seem to recall a study from the UK in the early days of the vaccination drive, that 1 shot of one type vaccine, followed after interval by a 2nd shot of a different vaccine, actually produced a heightened immune response.

Not necessarily good if it puts you into a cascading over-response to infection; remember the cytokine storm problem....

But it's an interesting possibility.

- DSK

 

[shaggy]

They have been working on mRNA techniques for a while for their benefits 

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 vaccines

https://molecular-cancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12943-021-01335-5

Cancer immunotherapy 

Me pops is still around because of that shit...  2 yrs 100% immunocompromised, but that shit is a miracle. 

 

[Chasm]

No booster for me, just got the second dose.

With a bit of luck the nasal spray vaccines will become available at that time. Training the cells in the attack vector makes a lot of sense. They work in animal models (at least one has 100% efficacy in ferrets). The first humans trials were AFAIK not that good. Exact dosing is much more difficult and a problem. OTOH that were AFAIK initial vaccinations, not boosters. 

 

[NeedAClew]

Do you have to stop using coke before/after a nasal spray vaccine? Asking for a friend in Florida... 

 

[P_Wop]

I had the single shot J&J one in March.  Asking my doctors if I need a booster, and if so which one, has produced a slew of conflicting advice.  Possibly, no, wait for the CDC, etc...

I'm 66, and reasonably well-behaved in public, masking and so on, but delta is a worry, even here in the well-behaved SF Bay Area. 

My personal feeling is a booster of a different type might help and shouldn't be dangerous, particularly 5 months after my first one.  But hey, I'm not a doctor or epidemiologist.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Do you have to stop using coke before/after a nasal spray vaccine? Asking for a friend in Florida... 

Why no, actually the nasal ulcers that you get from snorting coke will increase/speed the vaccine uptake

- DSK

 

[fishingbobber]

A booster should use a different vector than just the viral spike . like other vaccines.  This might provide broader immunity,but at a lower effigacy...  Like smallpox used the cowpox virus...   But this will take way longer to develop and approve.  Maybe the Johonson or the Sputnik that uses a Adeno virus ...even though they just put covid spikes inside that virus.  

Getting covid gives you some immunity to the whole virus using T3 cells... The immunity given by the vac uses antibodies against the spike.. highly efficient  ..     So even if you have been infected you should get the vaccine    ... But now   the very latest variant has three mutations on the end of its spike. So it would be good to have additional protection from T3 cells.   This article mentions how having had a similar virus to covid19 gives some immuniy via t3 cells [imho similar to smallpox/cowpox ]        . https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

 

[weightless]

U.S. to Advise Boosters for Most Americans 8 Months After Vaccination

 

[TheDragon]

I had the single shot J&J one in March.  Asking my doctors if I need a booster, and if so which one, has produced a slew of conflicting advice.  Possibly, no, wait for the CDC, etc...

I'm 66, and reasonably well-behaved in public, masking and so on, but delta is a worry, even here in the well-behaved SF Bay Area. 

My personal feeling is a booster of a different type might help and shouldn't be dangerous, particularly 5 months after my first one.  But hey, I'm not a doctor or epidemiologist.

As I mentioned in another thread, my stepson and his girlfriend, both in their 30s, had the JnJ vaccine and I encouraged them to get a mRNA booster, which they did a while ago now. We all feel a lot better going forward.

I am almost 8 months into my Moderna vaccination and ready for a third shot, which apparently will be available soon.

 

[Jules]

U.S. to Advise Boosters for Most Americans 8 Months After Vaccination

Being from the "Never trust a politician or government bureaucrat" school of thought, I first wondered why the CDC flipped on this so quickly.  Could certainly be because the Delta variant is so much more contagious.  But to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been any studies showing the efficacy of the booster shot.  Though, apparently, studies have shown a drop off in efficacy of the vaccine over time.

Even if there is no data on a booster shot yet, what harm could it do?  On the other hand, I hope it's not being promoted in order to provide political donors with a better ROI. 

What saddens me most is the fact this pandemic is largely due to the failure of man to do the right thing from the start.

 

[NeedAClew]

Hey, a lot of vaccines require boosters.

Until there was enough time passed, who really knew?

I am glad we did not wait 2 years to get "final word" with covid raging.

Mr C and I get ours in November  or maybe I get one earlier, will find out in a couple of weeks. They have walkin availability now at Safeway and Walgreens.

 

[weightless]

Though, apparently, studies have shown a drop off in efficacy of the vaccine over time.

So far the drop off that's been shared with the public is in protection against infection. For instance, the CDC just published some papers and they are consistent with an unchanged (statically) level of protection from hospitalization and death from the mrna vaccines over 24 weeks:

Sustained Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines Against COVID-19 Associated Hospitalizations Among Adults — United States, March–July 2021 | MMWR

Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines in Preventing SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Nursing Home Residents Before and During Widespread Circulation of the SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant — National Healthcare Safety Network, March 1–August 1, 2021 | MMWR

New COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations Among Adults, by Vaccination Status — New York, May 3–July 25, 2021 | MMWR

AFAIK, long lasting "sterilizing" protection is not typical of vaccines used in humans and the drop off in it was to be expected. Which begs the questions: why boosters and why so quickly?

 

[IStream]

Because every breakthrough infection of a vaccinated individual produces selective pressure on the virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity. The fewer breakthroughs you have and the shorter each one is, the less likely you are to breed a mutant strain that makes the vaccine ineffective.

This is not something they're playing up to the public but it is reality and it is a very serious concern.

 

[d'ranger]

We will both get it when available, why? Oh, I dunno because it can't hurt anything? Because of this happening?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

 

[BlatantEcho]

We will both get it when available, why? Oh, I dunno because it can't hurt anything? Because of this happening?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Just so we're following at home:

You read a corporate news story of a country with a very high vaccination %,  having a drastic rise in cases and deaths.

Do you:
a) investigate if this is happening in other countries, states, and why??  (hint, it is: Washington, Oregon, etc)
or
b) Immediately clamor for more vaccine?

Why dig into the science, reform your opinion in light of new evidence?
Nope, just adhere to a blind faith: "gimme more vaccine!!"

That sounds more like religious faith, than evidence based medicine or scientific deduction.

 

[NeedAClew]

Fortunately I guess, puzzling over the timing of my 3rd Moderna is useful distraction.

(A) Normally I would get it in November per the 8 month thing.

But I get the little friend my last (early per guidelines) mash and flash found removed tomorrow.

So should I 

(B) Get Moderna 3 while I heal before they start nuking me? Does nuking decrease immune response to vaccine? 

(C) Wait (how long ) until the nuking is done to get it?  Will I get as much bang for my jab as in (A) and how long past November might that be?

Obviously, I will ask my doctors and hope they know. If not, think I choose plan B. Don't want to hang around undervaxxed. 

Then there's flu shot timing....

 

[ShortForBob]

Fortunately I guess, puzzling over the timing of my 3rd Moderna is useful distraction.

(A) Normally I would get it in November per the 8 month thing.

But I get the little friend my last (early per guidelines) mash and flash found removed tomorrow.

So should I 

(B) Get Moderna 3 while I heal before they start nuking me? Does nuking decrease immune response to vaccine? 

(C) Wait (how long ) until the nuking is done to get it?  Will I get as much bang for my jab as in (A) and how long past November might that be?

Obviously, I will ask my doctors and hope they know. If not, think I choose plan B. Don't want to hang around undervaxxed. 

Then there's flu shot timing....

Good luck with it all tomorrow. yep, I'd go plan B too.

If I were you, I'd get the jab between the op and the nuking. The nuking bit is more tiring than the op and the fatigue can last weeks and weeks after the last blast  :mellow:

But of course, ask your specialist.