The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?

TheDragon

Super Anarchist
I'll be getting the third shot sometime in late October before I start some extensive travel to Panama and South Africa. Current information suggests it provides a major boost in immune response, no surprise. The 8-month window is just a convenient place for the country to start this process, it really doesn't make much difference. Anything over four months is probably fine. Obviously the context here is that the vaccine supply is available now as the current vaccination rate is around 1m per day, so we can easily handle the third dose demand, and it makes sense to try to get older folk boosted before winter in case we get yet another wave then. It is too late to make a difference to the current wave. I'd love to get a delta-specific booster as I hope this may be our last major variant, but the current vaccines are effective enough against Delta. I got my second shot of Moderna in March, two months after my first shot because I thought a longer waiting period was appropriate, so in October it will be nearly 8 months. Unlike the covidiots here, having a third shot does not bother me at all, and I don't believe we will need annual shots, but if we do that does not worry me either. I already get the flu shot each year and have not had flu for over 30 years now. Unlike the covidiots, I am delighted with these amazing vaccines.

 

IStream

Super Anarchist
10,715
2,921
Good luck with it all tomorrow. yep, I'd go plan B too.

If I were you, I'd get the jab between the op and the nuking. The nuking bit is more tiring than the op and the fatigue can last weeks and weeks after the last blast  :mellow:

But of course, ask your specialist.
Best wishes for a successful treatment, Clew. The nuking leads to a lot of inflammation and other distractions for your immune system so my "got it from the internet" advice is the same as Meli's: get the shot at least a couple of weeks before the radiation. 

 

130lights

Anarchist
806
387
Lake Michigan
Yep, planning for September, 6 months after my 2nd Pfizer shot, and before my fall travel starts in October. I traveled 10 states last fall pre-shots, very carefully masking and avoiding places that weren’t distancing and masking, and 6 more states in the spring with no problems health wise. I’m careful, but don’t choose to stop all travel .  

 

TheDragon

Super Anarchist
So today JnJ says a second shot of their vaccine confers 9-fold more antibodies. A few months ago I encouraged my stepson and his GF who had JnJ in the spring to get a mRNA shot as their booster. I predicted that all JnJ recipients would be encouraged to get a second shot of some kind. Lots of blowback from some of the covidiots here, but with certainty it will happen, and can't happen soon enough. 

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
40,035
7,587
Eastern NC
So today JnJ says a second shot of their vaccine confers 9-fold more antibodies. A few months ago I encouraged my stepson and his GF who had JnJ in the spring to get a mRNA shot as their booster. I predicted that all JnJ recipients would be encouraged to get a second shot of some kind. Lots of blowback from some of the covidiots here, but with certainty it will happen, and can't happen soon enough. 


Had an interesting discussion with a couple of doctor acquaintances, with beer, on back porch, the other night.

We batted the idea back and forth, whether the human race would be better to distribute the available vaccines more widely and shut down.... or at least slow down, as much as possible... the breeding of new dangerous variants; -OR- to invest the available vaccines into arms of those already vaccinated but at risk of variants already in the stream.

No real conclusion was reached.

- DSK

 

animeproblem

Super Anarchist
1,019
199
Seattle
Any number of threads I could have mentioned this in, but the timing on a possible booster tipped it this way, checked this site couple of days ago & was a bit excited & somehow alarmed at the same time.

http://sakuracon.org/

By tradition the con has been held on Easter weekend (because, cherry blossoms), if we go by the current 8 months to a 3rd jab sced that seems to be the current thinking I would be getting it in December/January.

The alarming part is although I have not searched the entire site a quick look did not reveal any pandemic specific information, perhaps this is by design so that as things change policies can as well.

I will however go out on limb here & say that I cannot see how at least one event simply cannot be held safely: the guest reception, held indoors, with eating & drinking with people from all over the country not to mention international guests, NFW.

Anyway since I was already registered in the fall of 2019, pretty sure I am there, just need to book my hotel room again, sadly my dinner & drinking hangout has closed their doors (Tap House Grill, 160+ taps!).

 

ShortForBob

Super Anarchist
33,386
2,464
Melbourne
Any number of threads I could have mentioned this in, but the timing on a possible booster tipped it this way, checked this site couple of days ago & was a bit excited & somehow alarmed at the same time.

http://sakuracon.org/

By tradition the con has been held on Easter weekend (because, cherry blossoms), if we go by the current 8 months to a 3rd jab sced that seems to be the current thinking I would be getting it in December/January.

The alarming part is although I have not searched the entire site a quick look did not reveal any pandemic specific information, perhaps this is by design so that as things change policies can as well.

I will however go out on limb here & say that I cannot see how at least one event simply cannot be held safely: the guest reception, held indoors, with eating & drinking with people from all over the country not to mention international guests, NFW.

Anyway since I was already registered in the fall of 2019, pretty sure I am there, just need to book my hotel room again, sadly my dinner & drinking hangout has closed their doors (Tap House Grill, 160+ taps!).
It's at least 6 months away. They'll prolly give restrictions re masks, vaccinations etc closer to the date.

Enjoy :)

If you can.

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
5,959
1,650
USA
"*Patient had no symptoms of COVID-19 or their hospitalization or death was not COVID-related"

means they snagged them via a routine, contact, preadmission, or postadmission covid test, I think. So they had "something going on" not covid related that may have killed them or hospitalized them.  

 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
28,362
3,817
An excerpt from an excellent interview covering almost everything Covid https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/covid-expert-ben-neuman-vaccines-can-beat-variant-16412468.php    I think the comparison to the polio vaccine is applicable - It's a podcast with a transcript. 

Since you and I talked last, we’ve been hearing that people will need a booster shot eight months after being fully vaccinated.

The effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines is roughly on par with the polio vaccine. It takes four polio vaccine doses to get a person up to what turns into lifelong durable immunity. The first dose gets you about 40 percent immunity, which is about what the first dose of a COVID vaccine gets you. The second one will get you close to 90 percent, which is where the mRNA vaccines are with two doses.

The third dose of polio vaccine gets you to 99 percent. And the fourth one gets you to immune-for-life.

With the COVID vaccines, the initial studies looked at only two doses, because that was the simplest protocol to write up and put into effect. They didn’t know if they would need more doses at the time, and it would have taken longer to get anything approved if they waited until they had tried out two, three, four, five or six doses at various intervals.

So right now, with the boosters they are trying to figure out how many doses we’re going to need. I look at it not as a “booster,” but as completing a set of vaccinations that was probably always going to be more than two.

Something like four may be reasonable for coronavirus. But there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done to see exactly how durable that is, to see whether all the components of immunity stay strong for a long time afterward.

 

TheDragon

Super Anarchist
And now talk of advancing the third shot a month or so. Suits me, I'd appreciate getting it in early October, aged 65 so might qualify even though my second shot was in March.

 

Kate short for Bob

Super Anarchist
3,634
541
An excerpt from an excellent interview covering almost everything Covid https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/covid-expert-ben-neuman-vaccines-can-beat-variant-16412468.php    I think the comparison to the polio vaccine is applicable - It's a podcast with a transcript. 

Since you and I talked last, we’ve been hearing that people will need a booster shot eight months after being fully vaccinated.

The effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines is roughly on par with the polio vaccine. It takes four polio vaccine doses to get a person up to what turns into lifelong durable immunity. The first dose gets you about 40 percent immunity, which is about what the first dose of a COVID vaccine gets you. The second one will get you close to 90 percent, which is where the mRNA vaccines are with two doses.

The third dose of polio vaccine gets you to 99 percent. And the fourth one gets you to immune-for-life.

With the COVID vaccines, the initial studies looked at only two doses, because that was the simplest protocol to write up and put into effect. They didn’t know if they would need more doses at the time, and it would have taken longer to get anything approved if they waited until they had tried out two, three, four, five or six doses at various intervals.

So right now, with the boosters they are trying to figure out how many doses we’re going to need. I look at it not as a “booster,” but as completing a set of vaccinations that was probably always going to be more than two.

Something like four may be reasonable for coronavirus. But there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done to see exactly how durable that is, to see whether all the components of immunity stay strong for a long time afterward.
Some facts on the Polio Vaccine in use in the USA.

Since 2000 only the IPV (Inactivated Polio Vaccine) has been recommended for use in the USA.  Only children are vaccinated as they are they most vulnerable to serious disease from Polio.  The global eradication programme is based on vaccinating children as a priority.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/index.html

CDC recommends that children get four doses of polio vaccine. They should get one dose at each of the following ages:

  1. 2 months old
  2. 4 months old
  3. 6 through 18 months old
  4. 4 through 6 years old

Almost all children (99 out of 100) who get all the recommended doses of polio vaccine will be protected from polio.

So the 3rd dose can occur up to 16 months after the first dose and the 4th between 4 and 6 years after the first dose.

The first vaccine was developed in 1935 and decades of research followed resulting in a number of vaccines being developed that used various modes of action.  Some were licensed and later recalled.  The first effective vaccine was developed in 1952. 

The current vaccine in use in the USA, an enhanced-potency IPV, was licensed in 1987 - 34 years ago.  The vaccine is a classical type vaccine utilising an inactivated polio variant.

 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,085
1,576
Israel still has a very low mortality rate from covid but it had the 6th largest infection rate in the world last week which suggests that they started early and need to incur the booster shot.

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
40,035
7,587
Eastern NC
Tharsheblows said:
Yes, giving FDA approval within three months of the application being filed without the standard referral to an independent panel and waiting for the results of the various recommended studies greatly cheapens the reputation and integrity of the FDA.

I have a lot of friends in the medical field who are very smart people who truly want the best for everyone who don't seem to understand that the "political pressure" and head strong confidence may be doing more damage than good.  And the damage may be long lasting.

I personally think that the vaccines are an important part of the solution but we should openly acknowledge that the official position went from:

1) one shot for immunity; to

2) ok, maybe we need two shots for full immunity in some cases; to

3) even if you are fully vaccinated (two shots) you can still replicate and transmit the virus so you have to still behave as if you are unvaccinated (which doesn't typically happen at any appreciable level with truly effective vaccines for other viruses); to

4) you can still get COVID if you are fully vaccinated but almost all the most seriously ill patients in the hospital are unvaccinated...so go get vaccinated; to

5) Oops!, almost half the seriously ill patients in the hospitals in Israel were fully vaccinated we probably will need a third shot; to

5) we need a booster at about 6 months because immunity levels have probably dropped to somewhere below 50% but this booster shot will likely be the last one you need (despite being wrong about many things so far).

I think a much more effective message would be: 

1) Of course this vaccine is very new and experimental, the disease is brand new;

2) we admit we don't fully know what we are doing but we seem to be making good progress at a historical record pace;

3) so far vaccines have been quite effective albeit shorter term than we had hoped;

4) we don't fully understand the range of the side effects but so far severe side effects seem to be quite rare (and here is a transparent view of what we know so you can see for yourself);

5) we have no need to silence dissenting voices regardless of their merit becasue having studied science we know that many scientific breakthroughs throughout history have been directly due to dissenting minority voices...so much so that the "Scientific Method" includes the step of "Peer Review" whereby vigorous criticism of any result or conclusion is explicitly invited. 

6) its your body and forced or coerced participation in medical experimentation is abhorrent behavior;

7) we encourage you to educate yourself and make a decision for yourself and your loved ones;

8) we (the medical community) have enough confidence in the vaccines that we taken it personally and recommended it to the people we most love (to the degree that is true); and

9) because only about 36% of the nearly 8 billion people on the planet are vaccinated, we realize that any plan that depends on "everyone getting vaccinated" is very likely unrealistic any time soon so research into alternative solutions is OK too and not a threat to the "vaccine solution"
Oddly enough, you seem to be conflating a lot of the Mikey-type bloviating for the actual CDC, NIH, and medical science community's messaging.

I don't ever recall anybody saying that one shot would confer immunity for anything other than the JNJ vaccine. I don't recall any actual knowledgeable "trying to silence" any other source; now citing specific misinformation and saying "This is not true" was definitely part of the messaging and that is totally consistent.

As for the info about vaccinated people carrying the virus, yes. That was ALWAYS known and understood by anybody with a smidgen of knowledge, and was discussed at least a few times in the run-up to beginning the public vaccination effort in the US, and after. Nobody knew how much virus was shed by vaccinated people who became infected. It was not studied extensively because there were other important things to find out; when studies were done, the info was released and refined as it became known.

This is the first time in history we have HAD effective vaccines, and a large percent of the population elected to not accept vaccination. In the past, people were afraid of deadly diseases and were willing if not eager to get vaccinated for their own and their family's protection. ~30 years into a publicity campaign of disinformation and serious lapse in public education, we have a lot of people who don't understand what the fuck is going on as well as being mistrustful of goddam smarty-pants scientists, and here we are.

You know that old expression, "avoid it like the plague"? We need to throw that out and get a new one, turns out people nowadays don't avoid the fucking plague after all.

- DSK

 

Kate short for Bob

Super Anarchist
3,634
541
As for the info about vaccinated people carrying the virus, yes. That was ALWAYS known and understood by anybody with a smidgen of knowledge, and was discussed at least a few times in the run-up to beginning the public vaccination effort in the US, and after. Nobody knew how much virus was shed by vaccinated people who became infected. It was not studied extensively
I thought that the efficacy of a vaccine in stopping infection and transmission was one of the most important criteria for approving a vaccine.  In fact isn't there criteria that stipulates a metric to monitor.  The reason being that any vaccine that doesn't stop infection and transmission can create an environment where the virus mutates under vaccine selective pressure i.e. lead to harder to control variants.

 
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