The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
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I gather you are ignoring all the more recent research on the efficacy and risks of the mRNA vaccines?
I follow it closely.
As a medical professional don't you have an ethical responsibility to present a balanced and informed view rather than taking the piss?
You have shown zero interest in a balance and informed view, so its more fun to take the piss.
You have made up your mind and no amount of informed debate or scientific results is going to change your mind.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
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You have shown zero interest in a balance and informed view, so its more fun to take the piss.
You have made up your mind and no amount of informed debate or scientific results is going to change your mind.
That's incorrect. I had doubts about the veracity of the data from the Pzifer trials from the beginning.
 

The Dark Knight

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Brisvegas
I follow it closely.

Have you seen this various research? It’s pretty clear from these and many other research papers and articles that MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis in children/youths. Whilst the risk is low, so too are the risks from covid for this age group. Shouldn’t the medical profession/government be spelling out the risks of both covid and myocarditis so that parents can make a more informed decision rather than trying to push vaccinations to this age group?




 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
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Have you seen this various research? It’s pretty clear from these and many other research papers and articles that MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis ...
No, it's pretty clear that you're a pinhead.

Literally the first sentence in your cite: "Cases of myocarditis... following a third dose of Pfizer vaccine are rare and typically mild."

You clearly don't understand fairly basic numbers, as the statisitics in both these mass-media (as opposed to professional journals) are dumbed down for public consumption, and all you seem to grasp is the alarmist tone of some of it.
 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
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That's incorrect. I had doubts about the veracity of the data from the Pzifer trials from the beginning.
To be clear. I was saying you doubted the data from the vaccine trials from the beginning and no amount of data is going to change your mind. So I think my statement is correct.
 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,657
2,123
Have you seen this various research? It’s pretty clear from these and many other research papers and articles that MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis in children/youths. Whilst the risk is low, so too are the risks from covid for this age group. Shouldn’t the medical profession/government be spelling out the risks of both covid and myocarditis so that parents can make a more informed decision rather than trying to push vaccinations to this age group?





Yes, I have read and been aware of the research on myocarditis associated with the covid vaccines. So have all the medical professionals associated with administering the vaccines. This is why, from the very first round of vaccines , prior to boosters, you were asked to wait at the vaccine facility for 30-45 minutes after your vaccine, and why you are asked at your booster shot if you have had certain symptoms.

They are also aware that there is a higher incidence of myocarditis from people who catch covid. Simply put, you have a higher risk of suffering myocarditis if you actually catch covid than if you have the vaccine.

The risk is apparently lower from the booster shot than from the original dosage.

The analysis is incomplete because the data relies on such small samples because the incidence is so small.

The myocarditis symptoms although rare, have also been mild. However you are correct there is an inverse relationship to age and good physicians are advising parents of young male teens so that they can make an informed choice.

However, I have noticed that many people prefer to spend more on a meal out than the co-pay to consult their doctor.
 

EYESAILOR

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Because that's your pinhead RWNJ "narrative"
Right there you are guilty of politicizing public health discussion.

Perhaps you have forgotten, that in the first year of the pandemic and when the vaccine trials where in phases 1 and 2 and completion of phase 3 of the trials, it was Democrats that made up the majority of vaccine skeptics and Republicans who authorized Operation Warp Speed to bring vaccines into production at record speed.

DO NOT POLITICIZE the debate on vaccines.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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De Nile
Have you seen this various research? It’s pretty clear from these and many other research papers and articles that MRNA vaccines are causing myocarditis in children/youths. Whilst the risk is low, so too are the risks from covid for this age group. Shouldn’t the medical profession/government be spelling out the risks of both covid and myocarditis so that parents can make a more informed decision rather than trying to push vaccinations to this age group?




Having experienced myocarditis from the flu when I was 19, and having lifelong impacts from it, myocarditis is no joke. (get your flu shot!) And yes, there is a risk of myocarditis from the vaccine. There is a higher risk of myocarditis from the virus. Roll your dice, take your chances.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
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Right there you are guilty of politicizing public health discussion.

Perhaps you have forgotten, that in the first year of the pandemic and when the vaccine trials where in phases 1 and 2 and completion of phase 3 of the trials, it was Democrats that made up the majority of vaccine skeptics and Republicans who authorized Operation Warp Speed to bring vaccines into production at record speed.

DO NOT POLITICIZE the debate on vaccines.
Vaccines didn't exist yet, I would suggest that what you are labelling "Democrat vaccine scepticism" was actually "Democrat scepticism of Trump."

The fact is, this vaccine scepticism is very much driven by right-wing media. The same people hate Fauci and hate-hate-HATE Biden and will only say/post things they hear/read from these same sources. It's the current state of play. I'll stop when the problem subsides.
 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
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Vaccines didn't exist yet, I would suggest that what you are labelling "Democrat vaccine scepticism" was actually "Democrat scepticism of Trump."
I agree that Democrat vaccine skepticism was driven by a distrust and dislike of Trump......

........and let us be honest , a passionate desire to see Trump lose the election and no appetite to allow the Republican administration to claim any credit for progress in the battle versus the virus. It was nonetheless appalling that politics and political media shaped a terrible response to a public health issue. Let us not rewrite history. I was there with other medical professionals, aghast as we watched Democrat politicians and left wing media denigrate valid results from phase 1 and 2 trials, and prejudge phase 3 results before they were published. mRNA was described as "unproven science" being used by a desperate White House grasping at straws. Moderna was portrayed as a bunch of Republican donors getting favored treatment. However worst of all by far, was the treatment meted out to the FDA scientists and officials in charge of reviewing and approving the vaccine. Scientists who had given a lifetime of non-political service under various administration. Scientists without a conflict of interest, that had not just come from a pharmaceutical company, nor were they on their way to a cozy sinecure job at a pharmaceutical company.

One of the worst impacts of the Covid pandemic is that the political rhetoric from both sides of the aisle, left and right, has driven some of our finest and smartest public servants to quit their jobs.

First they were criticized by left wing for approving unproven vaccines....with blatant suggestions that they were right wing political appointees
Then they were criticized by the right wing for approving dangerous vaccines....with suggestions that the same individuals were the liberal elite
and finally, senior Democrats turned on them again because they were reticent to approve extending the age limits for the vaccines without sufficient data.

We lost life time independent career professionals which will be very hard to replace. They have resigned. I suspect we will see new scientists and department heads who will do 4-10 years stints before going back to working for big pharma. Then when you discover that the FDA has lost its independence , you have only yourselves to blame.


The fact is, this vaccine scepticism is very much driven by right-wing media. The same people hate Fauci and hate-hate-HATE Biden and will only say/post things they hear/read from these same sources. It's the current state of play. I'll stop when the problem subsides.

The fact is that unless we acknowledge that our biggest failing in the USA during the pandemic was a polarized media.....both left and right wing....then we are destined to fail again.
Individually we cannot change the world....but individually we (you) can acknowledge that you are a small part of the problem. Every time that you politicize a debate/discussion/argument about vaccines, you magnify the problem. If we could discuss our views without enabling the political activists......then our left wing and right wing media would becomes less profitable and do less damage.

Rant over.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,479
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Eastern NC
....
One of the worst impacts of the Covid pandemic is that the political rhetoric from both sides of the aisle, left and right, has driven some of our finest and smartest public servants to quit their jobs.

That was terrible, and it's unfortunate that we will not be able to fully recover from this effect. The same is true in medical and science education, a lot of top people have quit in disgust or been hounded out of office. This is making room for young people and I hope this will somewhat make it up.

The politicization of public science and medical policy is wrong when -any- politician does it. In my lifetime, the Republicans have been far worse at this... from Allen Greenspan using the Fed to bring on "a mild recession" to help Bush/Cheney's chances in the 200 election, to Trump's rhetoric on FIRE FAUCI!! To be evenhanded and criticise at least one Democrat President, Obama did a very poor job following up all the malfeasance that brought on the 2008 crash. There should have been prosecutions among some of the Wall St CEOs who were committing massive fraud.

The fact is that unless we acknowledge that our biggest failing in the USA during the pandemic was a polarized media.....both left and right wing....then we are destined to fail again.
Individually we cannot change the world....but individually we (you) can acknowledge that you are a small part of the problem. Every time that you politicize a debate/discussion/argument about vaccines, you magnify the problem. If we could discuss our views without enabling the political activists......then our left wing and right wing media would becomes less profitable and do less damage.

Rant over.

Agree some here, one area I again disagree strongly is that we have no "left wing media" in the USA. We have lots of right-wing media, we have some nutball-fascist media, some bring-on-the-race-war white-supremacist media, some Jesus-is-gonna-get-you-baby-murdering-socialists media, and some genuine professional journalism, and some media that occasionally presents some political views that are almost approaching what would the political center in the rest of the world, and is considered wildly flaming pinko leftist here.

Where is the "leftist" version of One-America "News"? Where is the leftist Hannity and Tucker Carlson and Breitbart? I occasionally challenge the RWNJs with this, and the best they can do is "Rachel Maddow is far left" which is 1 not true and 2 she does not blatantly lie.
Where is the pro-Democrat "news" empire that pushes whatever Biden wants while secretly enforcing or investing in the exact opposite, in the way that Fox News was pushing anti-vax hysteria and giving a microphone to every half-baked pinhead screeching about mRNA being the devil's seed while privately requiring that all their employees be vaccinated?

There is no winning this battle. There is only driving the racist fascist assholes back under their rocks.
 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
7,267
1,731
Brisvegas
No, it's pretty clear that you're a pinhead.

Literally the first sentence in your cite: "Cases of myocarditis... following a third dose of Pfizer vaccine are rare and typically mild."

You clearly don't understand fairly basic numbers, as the statisitics in both these mass-media (as opposed to professional journals) are dumbed down for public consumption, and all you seem to grasp is the alarmist tone of some of it.
Still a total dickwad. Your reply is typical of dumbarse sheep who can't handle your beliefs being questioned.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
They are also aware that there is a higher incidence of myocarditis from people who catch covid. Simply put, you have a higher risk of suffering myocarditis if you actually catch covid than if you have the vaccine.
But you are generalising across the entire population. It is accepted that in younger cohorts the risk of vaccine-induced myocarditis and pericarditis is greater and more serious than that occurring through natural infection.
 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
7,267
1,731
Brisvegas
Yes, I have read and been aware of the research on myocarditis associated with the covid vaccines. So have all the medical professionals associated with administering the vaccines. This is why, from the very first round of vaccines , prior to boosters, you were asked to wait at the vaccine facility for 30-45 minutes after your vaccine, and why you are asked at your booster shot if you have had certain symptoms.

They are also aware that there is a higher incidence of myocarditis from people who catch covid. Simply put, you have a higher risk of suffering myocarditis if you actually catch covid than if you have the vaccine.

The risk is apparently lower from the booster shot than from the original dosage.

The analysis is incomplete because the data relies on such small samples because the incidence is so small.

The myocarditis symptoms although rare, have also been mild. However you are correct there is an inverse relationship to age and good physicians are advising parents of young male teens so that they can make an informed choice.

However, I have noticed that many people prefer to spend more on a meal out than the co-pay to consult their doctor.
thanks for an educated response compared with that of steaming pile of shit...

I was not aware that myocarditis was also potential side effect of covid, so thanks for the enlightment.

I find it rather amusing that covid & politics are so intertwined in the US and rather relieved that it is not that way in Aus.

I am not anti-vax but I do question the various advice that comes from the Government or their agencies, much in the same way I may seek out a second/third opinion for medical treatment. The incompetence, lies and denials of responsibility for the mistakes that affected my former city, Melbourne, to make it the most locked down city, when "up the road" in Sydney, their very different and much less locked down approach lead to the same outcome, all based on similar medical/scientific advice, makes me not blindly trust Goverment advice.

As for the Vaccines and their testing. I understand the need to get them from the lab to the arms in quick time and in unprecented times like the pandemic I can understand that they can speed up approval processes without cutting corners. However what annoyed me is that the testing agencies and Goverments did not acknowledge that one corner was cut. The traditional long process of evaluating new vaccinies/drugs allowed the potential detection of long term side effects. Again, I stress that with Covid, we could not afford to test over a couple of years, but the Government denial of any risk annoys me.



I am influenced by my partner who has gone down the anti-vax rabbit hole, however I do filter out most of the BS she sends me. For example she sent me a video about myocarditis from a well known Fox News nutter. I did not watch the video for obvious reasons and chose to research it instead. As mentioned, I only looked it up in terms of the MNRA... In my partners defence, she started the pandemic just wary of MNRA vaccines because she was working as a nurse in Sweden in 2009 when the Swedish Goverment was pushing GSK's Pandemrix® for H1N1 influenza. Sweden and Finland which widely vaccinated young people (compared with countries that focused on adult populations with Pandemrix) so a significant rise in Narcolepsy.

 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
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2,123
The politicization of public science and medical policy is wrong when -any- politician does it. In my lifetime, the Republicans have been far worse at this

It is a terrible think to say about the state of our nation, when all we can say is "The other side is worse than us"

Instead, how about leading by example. How about not including political slurs in scientific debate?

... from Allen Greenspan using the Fed to bring on "a mild recession" to help Bush/Cheney's chances in the 200 election,
That is complete conspiracy theory nonsense. Since you didnt get it from working at the Fed. You got it from left wing conspiracy theorists , who in my view are often indistinguishable from right wing conspiracy theorists. I really don't care who is worse, or who has more conspiracy theories . In my book, it is just plain divisive and I don't care for either side.

Agree some here, one area I again disagree strongly is that we have no "left wing media" in the USA. We have lots of right-wing media, some genuine professional journalism, and some media that occasionally presents some political views that are almost approaching what would the political center in the rest of the world, and is considered wildly flaming pinko leftist here.
And yet, you dont get Labor party voters intimating that the Bank of England conspired to win the election for the Tories.....or the CDP voters in Japan suggesting that the PDMA (Japan's equivalent of the FDA) are lackeys of the LDP (governing conservative party)

FWIW, Greenspan was appointed by Bill Clinton, twice!

There is no winning this battle. There is only driving the racist fascist assholes back under their rocks.
The reality is that the left wing and the right wing in America are nastier and less objective than any other of the major western civilized democracies.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,479
10,230
Eastern NC
It is a terrible think to say about the state of our nation, when all we can say is "The other side is worse than us"

Instead, how about leading by example. ...

Umm, if the other side is worse... a lot worse... then we ARE leading by example.

...
FWIW, Greenspan was appointed by Bill Clinton, twice! ...

He was also a lifelong Republican, an Ayn Rand fan, and he said himself that he worked the system to try and get Bush/Cheney reelected. If you followed the Fed in those years, it seemed unlikely that Greenspan was just following the apolitical recipe book.

...

The reality is that the left wing and the right wing in America are nastier and less objective than any other of the major western civilized democracies.

The reality is that there is no "left wing" in America. Bernie Sanders would be a middle-of-the-roader in any of the other advanced countries.
 


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